US-Afghanistan supply lines remain open after Pakistan funding cut, Mattis says

[POPEYE-Sailor]

https://www.geo.tv/latest/175534-no...cutting-us-supply-route-to-afghanistan-mattis

 

[Dalit]

can't say it is deadly game even for US itself. Haqani network and taliban pakistan support is in national interest of Pakistan. It is only against India not against US, same goes for Nuclear weapons. US is not understanding this basic thing. Only way to tackle US is which we are doing right now. Seems like current government of Pakistan is doing a terrible job. That's why I always supported musharaf. He knew how to extract money from you plus support pakistan interest.

The problem here is that the American Afghan policy is dictated by India. Even if our narrative is aimed at Indian influence in Afghanistan, the Americans blindly choose to support India. Pakistan will have to accept that the US is not a friend. It has chosen a side. That is fine, but it is our turn now to devise a proper policy and call it a day. We can't continue on the path we are at. To weather the storm is counterproductive.

View attachment 446611

https://www.geo.tv/latest/175534-no...cutting-us-supply-route-to-afghanistan-mattis

This statement essentially means that they are testing the waters. Trying to find the red lines. Did the Americans expect Pakistan to cut off the supply routes after their planned blustering?

 

[Sankpal]

US is too much confident about route line?

I guess, thru back door diplomacy pakistan has given insurance to US.

 

[IceCold]

US is too much confident about route line?

I guess, thru back door diplomacy pakistan has given insurance to US.

No we have not. Why would Pakistan cut supply lines just yet when US hasn't sanctioned Pakistan. So far all it has done is to withhold certain amount to Pakistan. Once US places sanctions than it will be a different game this time.

 

[mohd497]

The problem here is that the American Afghan policy is dictated by India. Even if our narrative is aimed at Indian influence in Afghanistan, the Americans blindly choose to support India. Pakistan will have to accept that the US is not a friend. It has chosen a side. That is fine, but it is our turn now to devise a proper policy and call it a day.



This statement essentially means that they are testing the waters. Trying to find the red lines. Did the Americans expect Pakistan to cut off the supply routes after their planned blustering?

At bush administration time things were far more worse then what it is today. Muslim countries were in direct threat of attack. I don't know what musharaf did but it worked. That dual policy actually worked. Not only we got f 16 free of cost but also rapid development in ballistic and cruise missiles. What other muslim countries can achieve that?

If you think that it is now easier to go into russia - china pivoting bullshit then you are wrong.

- russia: still trade in US dollars. Scared till death about sactions.
- china: still buys massive US treasuries. Ready to turn on North korea(work in disguise).

Best way is NOT to accelerate or go into bad side of US. What this current gov is doing is beyond insanity. If global powers like Russia and China doesnt dare to why Pakistan?

Trump load out hate speeches to every other country, do they back out.

What not trump have told to china? Instead of becoming emotional or pakistani typical "yay ummah is the best" mulla hating US thingy they actually worked with them thinking this administration will last for only 4 years at best.

Or you want pakistan to be US enemy forever because of 4 years of administration stupidity?

https://www.geo.tv/latest/175437-pti-chairman-imran-khan-addresses-media-from-bani-gala

This guy gets it. Why not pakistan elect him. Please elect him?

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

I disagree with that. Iran has shown time and again that it will stand up for itself. The Iranian population despite their domestic differences are generally united on foreign policy issues. The recent riots were a result of economic situation there. The last time US commandos were sent to Iran, they were shot down and arrested. It’s a country that takes it red lines very seriously and generally the state has a close eye on movements of what it considers anti-state actors both individuals and groups and they go very hard against them. In Pakistan, these lines are very blurred. Granted, it might serve some strategic purpose to have the GLOC/ALOC open, but why shouldnt pakistan charge them at a rate of its choosing? Your foreign minister is on record saying GLOC/ALOC are being provided free of charge. With all the hostile steps being taken against your country, it’s mindboggling to understand why you can’t charge for these lines of communication. Too often Pakistanis tend to take major positions without any careful analysis. It’s a position that is informed by ignorance or hubris. It’s a common feature among its policy makers and public alike.

You cant really compare Iran and Pakistan in this regards, both have a different regional position and influence wrt politics/religion/geography.US needs a bogey man for Arabs and in someway Iran serves their agenda so they are able to make huge arm sales.Pakistan on other end is a nightmare for US policy.Pakistan with a strong army fits nowhere in USAs 21st century ambitions.
Pakistan renegotiates the charge to $5000 per truck/flight and in return Pakistan is told its a non-starter and that they will take it as a 'NO' to continue with the supplies. What happens next would be interesting, either they would abolish Pakistans non NATO ally status and move to other expensive options or they will cower to the Pakistani rate.Its like a coin being flipped.. i agree with you Pakistan will never get a better chance to make the paradigm shift other than time of Trump presidency. Trumps -ive world image will shield Pakistan's decisions.My guess is Pakistan is waiting for Trump to make the first move as that validates a narrative its been selling that Pakistan was always dedicated and pushed to the last limit with US on WoT and that US was the quitter.

 

[Dalit]

At bush administration time things were far more worse then what it is today. Muslim countries were in direct threat of attack. I don't know what musharaf did but it worked. That dual policy actually worked. Not only we got f 16 free of cost but also rapid development in ballistic and cruise missiles. What other muslim countries can achieve that?

If you think that it is now easier to go into russia - china pivoting bullshit then you are wrong.

- russia: still trade in US dollars. Scared till death about sactions.
- china: still buys massive US treasuries. Ready to turn on North korea(work in disguise).

Best way is NOT to accelerate or go into bad side of US. What this current gov is doing is beyond insanity. If global powers like Russia and China doesnt dare to why Pakistan?

Trump load out hate speeches to every other country, do they back out.

What not trump have told to china? Instead of becoming emotional or pakistani typical "yay ummah is the best" mulla hating US thingy they actually worked with them thinking this administration will last for only 4 years at best.

Or you want pakistan to be US enemy forever because of 4 years of administration stupidity?

We have heard these sentiments before during the Musharraf days. We are about to be bombed to the stone age. Guess what, they did it anyway. This is the reason why Pakistan is today a football. Being kicked around for decades.

No, Pakistan is beyond a bunch outdated F-16s and paltry aid which is basically a bribe to do more. That is the only thing we have learnt from Musharraf's day. We cannot commit the same errors. Are you ready for more Afghan refugees? Are you ready for more colossal economic losses? Are you ready for more ethnic and religious bloodshed? I could go on.

Let's not overcomplicate things. We know what the Americans want. We cannot give the Americans what they seek. It is dangerous and there is no turning back. Also, enough of this negotiation BS. We have been doing that for decades now. All we got is death and destruction. Open your eyes.

Charge the Americans for the supply routes. It is our right. We won't become party in Afghanistan. The US must be demanded to stop Indian/Afghan cross border terror attacks. If not, Pakistan will retaliate.

As for China and Russia. China doesn't tolerate US BS. It does what needs to be done. From trade wars to SCS conflict. From OBOR to currency policy. It is for everyone to see. As for Russia, they are accused of defeating the US in Syria. Crimea speaks for itself. Russia is also accused of meddling in US elections. Russia doesn't tolerate US meddling in the affairs of its allies. I could go on and on. What would you call these actions towards the US? Friendly? They are a vicous payback.

The world has moved on since the Musharraf days. We seek no confrotation, but we won't tolerate threats and lies. We won't be blackmailed into destroying our future anymore. We will confront Trumpland and we don't care about the next US elections. It is their election and not ours. Besides, we can't predict the future.

 

[Thanatos]

Some sense coming back into minds of both countries, people in Pak's neighborhood might be disappointed to see. However they should understand that India is no substitute for Pak with regard to US mission in Afghanistan , no matter what.

 

[mohd497]

We have heard these sentiments before during the Musharraf days. We are about to be bombed to the stone age. Guess what, they did it anyway. This is the reason why Pakistan is today a football. Being kicked around for decades.

No, Pakistan is beyond a bunch outdated F-16s and paltry aid which is basically a bribe to do more. That is the only thing we have learnt from Musharraf's day. We cannot commit the same errors. Are you ready for more Afghan refugees? Are you ready for colossal economic losses? Are you ready for ethnic and religious bloodshed? I could go on.

Let's not overcomplicate things. We know what the Americans want. We cannot give the Americans what they seek. It is dangerous and there is no turning back. Also, enough of this negotiation BS. We have been doing that for decades now. All we got is death and destruction. Open your eyes.

Charge the Americans for the supply routes. It is our right. We won't become party in Afghanistan. The US must be demanded to stop Indian/Afghan cross border terror attacks. If not, Pakistan will retaliate.

As for China and Russia. China doesn't tolerate US BS. It does what needs to be done. From trade wars to SCS conflict. From OBOR to currency policy.It is for everyone to see. As for Russia, they are accused of defeating the US in Syria. Crimea speaks for itself. Russia is also accused of meddling in US elections. I could go on and on.

You can go on and on with these but nothing will change the facts on ground.

- America is the massive trading partner. FACT
- All well paid jobs are western oriented. FACT (not a single Chinese investment )
- Pakistan is deeply dependent on western financial structure. FACT (90% of money flowing into pakistan is through SWIFT)

You want to go into bad side of US? Be like Iran. At least Iran have some sense of nationality. What we have shia - sunni hatred. Punjabi, muhajir, sindhi hatred. Endless corruption. Jungle ka qanoon. You want Pakistan to turn on US then come here in Pakistan and face it.

Let me be clear, US may not be your friend but there are perks which you are ignoring. Russia and china are doing what they are capable todo. First become that.

 

[Max]

closing the route would be harsh step, we should start charging them for supplies and route.

 

[Dalit]

You can go on and on with these but nothing will change the facts on ground.

- America is the massive trading partner. FACT
- All well paid jobs are western oriented. FACT (not a single Chinese investment )
- Pakistan is deeply dependent on western financial structure. FACT (90% of money flowing into pakistan is through SWIFT)

You want to go into bad side of US? Be like Iran. At least Iran have some sense of nationality. What we have shia - sunni hatred. Punjabi, muhajir, sindhi hatred. Endless corruption. Jungle ka qanoon. You want Pakistan to turn on US then come here in Pakistan and face it.

Let me be clear, US may not be your friend but there are perks which you are ignoring. Russia and china are doing what they are capable todo. First become that.

The facts have already changed because you are still stuck in the Musharraf era.

So what if America is a trading partner LOL That doesn't mean anything. It also shouldn't imply that we cower and get exploited on an hourly basis. Besides, what you term as "massive" is really not that massive. The US is the biggest trading partner of Pakistan, but China and other regional countries are a much better substitute. Just because we failed in our policy to diversify and approach friendly nations to conduct trade doesn't mean that the world ends there. It is our shortcoming that we opt to remain in the US lap and put all our eggs in one basket. CPEC is about to change a lot of things. America can never match Chinese investment in Pakistan. What you are witnessing is just the tip of the iceberg. Pakistan just left its small fishing pond and is about to enter the ocean. If we take your US centric approach, Pakistan will always remain a third world proxy for hire dependent on aid. This scare tactic won't work anymore. Pakistanis have seen the good and ugly during the Musharraf era. The ugly stands out.

As for our dependency with Western financial infrastructure, don't lump this in its entirety with the US. We have decent relations with the EU and must do much more to reach out European nations. There is massive trade potential, but that needs to be tapped. For instance, the Europeans have accepted Pakistan's losses and shown leniency by granting GSP status. Something your ally the US has failed to do. Much more needs to be done though from our end.

The US cannot bully Pakistan. It cannot ask Pakistan to do more which essentially means doing their bidding and polishing their boots. Pakistan won't become a gun for hire. Pakistan won't accept India as a policeman of this region. Pakistan won't compromise on its interests. Period.

LOL at Sunni Shia hatred. What has that to do with our relationship with the US? Let's not enter this debate because we all know who is instigating these conflicts. As for the provinicial hatred, don't blame me. You need to blame your leaders who resort to corruption and ethnic based politics. I didn't vote for Nawaz Sharif or Zardari. Ask those who did. Also, let's be real. Whilst ethnic hatred does exist, the majority of Pakistanis are united. You can't paint this one sided picture of mass ethnic hate.

Don't challange me on coming to Pakistan. I haven't alienated my roots. I visit Pakistan on almost a yearly basis. I have a house and investment in Pakistan. I have relatives. Pakistan is my home. I am already facing it.

Give it up. Musharraf era is the past. He did good things. He also blundered. Musharraf's US policy was an utter disaster. All it gave to us is misery. From mass Afghan refugees to bloodshed and major economic losses. We won't enter that era again.

Stop mentioning Iran, Russia and China just by name. You won't become a China or Russia by cowering in a corner or being afraid. We understand the ground realities, but we also understand what is at stake. Both don't go hand in hand. We have already decided that we won't ally with a backstabber who only knows how to bluster.

We fully acknowledge that the US is a military and economic superpower. We don't seek confrontation, but we are not going to be bullied.

 

[RowdyRathore]

Its better for Pakistan to wind thing Up in Afghanistan & Pakistan because If they're thinking of playing certain groups for their benefits, there are also other neighborhoods & powers would also want to take their pie out of this mess.

Solving Afghanistan & Pakistan situation all together will only being peace & stability to this whole region. Otherwise we'll only become joke & played by the powers sitting far away from the religion.

 

[Menace2Society]

Throw out the refugees, fence the border, seal the border, weaponize the border, nobody goes in and out including NATO equipment.

Totally disassociate with Afghanistan. There should be no such thing as Af-Pak. Delink completely.

 

[AZ1]

Pakistan should not block the route. Let them go through now they can't ask do more so they have to manage for themselves also after some time start charging the route.

 

[mohd497]

The facts have already changed because you are still stuck in the Musharraf era.

So what if America is a trading partner LOL That doesn't mean anything. It also shouldn't imply that we cower and get exploited on an hourly basis. Besides, what you term as "massive" is really not that massive. The US is the biggest trading partner of Pakistan, but China and other regional countries are a much better substitute. Just because we failed in our policy to diversify and approach friendly nations to trade doesn't mean that the world ends there. It is our shortcoming that we opt to remain in the US lap and put all our eggs in one basket. CPEC is about to change a lot of things. America can never match Chinese investment in Pakistan. What you are witnessing is just the tip of the iceberg. Pakistan just left its small fishing pond and is about to enter the ocean. If we take your US centric approach, Pakistan will always remain a third world proxy for hire dependent on aid. This scare tactic won't work anymore. Pakistanis have seen the good and ugly during the Musharraf era. The ugly stands out.

As for our dependency with Western financial infrastructure, don't lump this in its entirety with the US. We have decent relations with the EU and must do much more to reach out European nations. There is massive trade potential, but that needs to be tapped. For instance, the Europeans have accepted Pakistan's losses and shown leniency by granting GSP status. Something your ally the US has failed to do. Much more needs to be done though from our end.

The US cannot bully Pakistan. It cannot ask Pakistan to do more which essentially means doing their bidding and polishing their boots. Pakistan won't become a gun for hire. Pakistan won't accept India as a policeman of this region. Pakistan won't Period.

LOL at Sunni Shia hatred. What has that to do with our relationship with the US? Let's not enter this debate because we all know who is instigating these conflicts. As for the provinicial hatred, don't blame me. You need to blame your leaders who resort to corruption and ethnic based politics. I didn't vote for Nawaz Sharif or Zardari. Ask those who did. Also, let's be real. Whilst ethnic hatred does exist, the majority of Pakistanis are united. You can't paint this one sided picture of mass ethnic hate.

Don't challange me on coming to Pakistan. I haven't alienated my roots. I visit Pakistan on almost a yearly basis. I have a house and investment in Pakistan. I have relatives. Pakistan is my home. I am already facing it.

Give it up. Musharraf era is the past. He did good things. He also blundered. Musharraf's US policy was an utter disaster. All it gave to us is misery. From mass Afghan refugees to bloodshed and economic losses. We won't enter that era again.

Stop mentioning Iran, Russia and China just by name. You won't become a China or Russia by cowering in a corner or being afraid. We understand the ground realities, but we also understand what is at stake. Both don't go hand in hand. We have already decided that we won't ally with a backstabber who only knows how to bluster.

I agree with US is the biggest backstabber country. The turmoil we see today is when people ouster musharaf and replaced him with zardari. We are football field because of them not musharaf. If you say those things during 2009 i would have agreed with you.

See what we were in 2009 by end of Musharaf era. India was scared of us! Investment from everywhere! US, china ,britain you name it. Massive infrastructure projects. What we see today? What was karachi in 2009 compare to what it is today.

I agree that china is investing hugely in pakistan but we cant brush off US.

As for the playing field with US it need how to tackle it. Getting angry and brushing it off must be the last choice.