US-Afghanistan supply lines remain open after Pakistan funding cut, Mattis says

[Dil Pakistan]

2 things

1.If US makes a deal with Tehran giving them laxation over a new deal( coming soon) they could ask in return a passage for their supplies to Afganistan which can happen openly or in a clandestine manner docked at chahbahar (an Indian run port)and delivered to Herat by a third country like Indian trucks. Notice the abrupt ending of the chaos that was there past week, i might be wrong but it can be like someone pulled the plug of those protestors?
If the above scenario is true Trumps tweet can be more of an attempt to get a reaction out of Pakistan . Closing the GLOC would only give US a reason to declare ISI/Pakistan Army an aidor of their enemy.Not just that they will push their way with Iran in getting a way.


2. Alternatively US can prepare a full throttle to topple the regime in Tehran and godforbid this happens they will have the new govt. give maximum autonomy to the province of Sistan Baluchistan on the lines of Iraqi Kurdistan and use it to neutralize the Gwadar chapter of OBOR.

If PAkistan takes a hard stance and blocks GLOC it will corner US in Afghanistan and it will push them to go for either of the above two scenarios.

The best way out for Pakistan is to keep US engaged in Afganistan and maintain a status quo. This is a war of fatigue and nerves, whoever gets tired first will walk out. Yes do keep them at bay and make sure their drones dont come in.Pakistan should also create a buffer zone in Afgan territory to make sure Afgan land no more gets used against them, get the fencing done asap, send the refugees back, make space in the local politics there, do surgical incursions when needed..This is how it should be for now.

US choosing Iran for its supply is never going to happen. It is the ultimate mistake that US can make and even a buffoon like Trump will not do this.

Even more importantly, Israel will never let it happen. Israel is hell bent on destroying Iran and the only option left for it is that US picks a fight with Iran.
If Iran becomes a supply route of US, then US will not go to war with Iran.

 

[Hareeb]

Yanks are threatening over soverignity and here our beloved forces still want to work with them.
ISPR even turned to black mailing: Cut the aid, it will hault coporation and will cause devastating effect on the region.

Shameless is that: Our beloved leaders didnt even accept a free line of credit-charging them for the supply route.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Pak has become like a double-edged sword for the USA!!!! Every action or inaction from Pak is hurting the US interests big time!!!! It all started with Pressler sanctions!!! It reminds me of the story of the Pied Piper of Hamelin!!! When he was denied the payment by the town heads for his cleaning out the rats by playing his pipe, he just changed the tune to drive all of their kids - except a lame one - away, and along it sealed their future for good!!!!!

Agree! but it is US that created this atmosphere at every step of the way.

Pakistanis were not this smart even up to the end of 90s and in 80s they trusted US blindly. The services they provided to US during the Russian - Afghan war, Pakistanis thought that they have the US favours forever. Their eyes opened after the F-16 disaster and their isolation at the hands of US in 90s and 2000s. These two decades were really tough for Pakistan because Russia was really annoyed with Pakistan and Chinese were far behind from where they are now.

Even after 9/11 the US had a chance to build relationship with Pakistan because Musharraf was in power. He was totally a man of the West and wanted US support to remain in power. US, on the other hand, tried to Pakistan as toilet paper.

Over the time, ISI and Pakistan Army got smarter and stronger and the rise of China gave them a little more leverage.
US policy to squeeze China at the mouth of South China Sea gave Pakistan the opening in the form of CPEC.

Now US is really looking down the barrel in Afghanistan.

We don't know, at least openly, how bad is the financial situation of US is at the moment. If US economy starts to nose dive, and Chinese currency gets adopted by other countries after Pakistan then US will implode.

Yanks are threatening over soverignity and here our beloved forces still want to work with them.
ISPR even turned to black mailing: Cut the aid, it will hault coporation and will cause devastating effect on the region.

Shameless is that: Our beloved leaders didnt even accept a free line of credit-charging them for the supply route.

It is merely a tactical ploy. Pakistan know how to handle and manage US. There are several steps in which Pakistan does this.

 

[Hareeb]

Agree! but it is US that created this atmosphere at every step of the way.

Pakistanis were not this smart even up to the end of 90s and in 80s they trusted US blindly. The services they provided to US during the Russian - Afghan war, Pakistanis thought that they have the US favours forever. Their eyes opened after the F-16 disaster and their isolation at the hands of US in 90s and 2000s. These two decades were really tough for Pakistan because Russia was really annoyed with Pakistan and Chinese were far behind from where they are now.

Even after 9/11 the US had a chance to build relationship with Pakistan because Musharraf was in power. He was totally a man of the West and wanted US support to remain in power. US, on the other hand, tried to Pakistan as toilet paper.

Over the time, ISI and Pakistan Army got smarter and stronger and the rise of China gave them a little more leverage.
US policy to squeeze China at the mouth of South China Sea gave Pakistan the opening in the form of CPEC.

Now US is really looking down the barrel in Afghanistan.

We don't know, at least openly, how bad is the financial situation of US is at the moment. If US economy starts to nose dive, and Chinese currency gets adopted by other countries after Pakistan then US will implode.



It is merely a tactical ploy. Pakistan know how to handle and manage US. There are several steps in which Pakistan does this.

I wish you were right.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-s...-regional-peace-dg-ispr.537425/#post-10146055

 

[jetray]

Are americans daring pakistan to cut supply lines or they are very sure that they can bring pakistan around. Some thing is going on behind the scenes.

 

[Zibago]

He THINKS nothing will happen i think i will win one billion tomorrow

 

[HAIDER]

Pentagon and Trump administration are two different thing. Logistic is deal by Pentagon and different audit office.

Are americans daring pakistan to cut supply lines or they are very sure that they can bring pakistan around. Some thing is going on behind the scenes.

Pentagon has different point view about over all situation then administration. India can influence the administration, but Pentagon is beyond its reach. They make strategic decision with boots on ground.

 

[Mav3rick]

Supply line should be suspended for a few weeks immediately...

Than re opened on condition that arms ammunition cannot pass... any air craft passing must land for inspection...
Food water and medicine should be allowed

For now

But that too against a reasonable transit fee. No more free lunches to the leeches.

Definitely. I was extremely surprised to learn that Pak-Afgan transit trade, the Afghan vehicles pay literally nothing. And they are using Pak's infrastructure and degrading it daily. Who does a deal like this?

We did....however the deal should have been revisited 10 years ago or atleast after Salala. Where the ***tards have the audacity to call their reimbursements for our services as aid, we would have gotten so much more on regular transit fee.

It’s often claimed that “Pakistanis have mastered the art of negotiating with a gun to their head” but seeing all the blunders it has made, this is hard to imagine. Pakistan has consistently taken deals that harm its core interests repeatedly. Both the military and civilian leadership have done so. It’s one of the most buffling aspects in international diplomacy

The claim above is similar to the one that CIA made about Iraqi WMD's. Nonsense and propaganda for consumption of the gullible West.

The one who okayed the purchace of ah1z's from the yanks needs to be shot..

Along with the ones who decided to procure F-16's and armaments in 2003/4.

Very wrong interpretations, conclusions and assertions; I must say.

You have totally forgot that, whenever US has made deals with Pakistan in the past (be it Russia in Afgh or after 9/11), there was a military ruler in Pakistan. Naturally, a military ruler had limited room to negotiate and surrendered early to the US demands.

Now, although the military in Pakistan is still calling the shots, but there is an elected govt. on the front scene. Therefore, the leverages and the options are very different.

Include in this equation the Chinese and the Russian factor.

Pakistan army has much more manoeuvrability now compared to anytime in the past.

He was still correct in his assessment, Pakistani military is a lot of bark and no bite where the US is concerned, the bite is reserved for internal matters only.

 

[Falcon26]

But that too against a reasonable transit fee. No more free lunches to the leeches.



We did....however the deal should have been revisited 10 years ago or atleast after Salala. Where the ***tards have the audacity to call their reimbursements for our services as aid, we would have gotten so much more on regular transit fee.



The claim above is similar to the one that CIA made about Iraqi WMD's. Nonsense and propaganda for consumption of the gullible West.



Along with the ones who decided to procure F-16's and armaments in 2003/4.



He was still correct in his assessment, Pakistani military is a lot of bark and no bite where the US is concerned, the bite is reserved for internal matters only.

In my view, the best moment for Pakistan to back its bluff is now. Trump will be lucky to survive till 2020 with all the impeachment talk going around. Pakistan will be best advised to charge maximum on GLOC/ALOC while substantially downscaling intelligence sharing arrangements with their counterparts. In fact, Pakistan should try its best to paralyze the relations to the extent it becomes a domestic American issue with opposing parties trading blame game. This will allow whoever wins 2020 elections to reset the relations and who’ll give Pakistan another chance to correct the naive mistakes made by Musharraf. Trump is the best thing to happen to Pakistan but most Pakistanis don’t see it that way. They either foolishly dismiss his bluster or have a very bad reading of domestic US considerations. Mark this spot, if Trump gets away with his moves, the worst is yet to come.

Long term, Pakistan needs to actively court its Pakistani-American community and leverage their connections to sell Pakistan’s interests. There are so many successful and influential Pakistani-Americans but due to the neglect of your embassy, most in DC and in policy circles have even begun towing hostile views against Pakistan. You only need to listen to the NPR and the long list of Pakistani-Americans who are backing Trump’s decision and even asking him to go a step further. I was shaking my head reading your ISPR spokesman sly remark about Nikki Haley’s Indian roots. It’s astonishing how out of touch Pakistani leaders are.This more than anything has to change. Pakistan must pay close attention to its soft power and image and do whatever it takes to refine.

 

[mohd497]

Pakistanis always tend misread the political and strategic atmosphere. We are seeing a repeat of this again. The Trump administration, and Obama before it have taken number of proping steps to gauge Pakistani response. Time and again, it has been found that Pakistan was bluffing. This latest steps and Pakistan’s reaction is a best case scenario. It’s begining of what’s to come. Pakistanis are fooling themselves if they think they can weather the storm by being a good boy.

The Obama administration was following the late Taliban leader from Iran & only targeted him once he entered Pakistani territory. Why is this? Truth is, Pakistan has been found o ut to be a loud barker that can’t back up its threats. The US can’t fly any drone let alone an armed one over Iran. But it does in pakistan brushing aside Pakistani concerns. In fact, it sends commandos deep inside Pakistan to target it’s enemies. Pakistan is a nuclear power. not Iran. But Pakistan is seen as a punching bag. You need to ask yourself why this is. My view is your military leadership just like their civilian counterparts are bunch of weaklings that have no interest in disturbing their elite lifestyles. They don’t have the stomach to confront the challenges they face. Instead, they issue statements for public consumption they have no interest in backing up. For years they claimed that they were against drone strikes when these drones were taking off from Pakistani bases with active backing of military leadership.

That's because US is still economic global power. Your words hold true for any other country in the world not as much extended as in pakistan but still. No ones wants sanctions. You gave example of Iran, look at the condition of their currency plus the livelihood of people.

There is only one way to tackle US that is diplomacy, no way around or end up like venezuela or iran or north korea.

If only world powers agree to not trade in US dollars it will remain.

 

[Falcon26]

That's because US is still economic global power. Your words hold true for any other country in the world not as much extended as in pakistan but still. No ones wants sanctions. You gave example of Iran, look at the condition of their currency plus the livelihood of people.

There is only one way to tackle US that is diplomacy, no way around or end up like venezuela or iran or north korea.

If only world powers agree to not trade in US dollars it will remain.

Nothing wrong with that, but then stop challenging US interests in South Asia and get out of this deadly game you are playing. As they say, don't go into a den of lions meowing like a pussycat

 

[mohd497]

Nothing wrong with that, but then stop challenging US interests in South Asia and get out of this deadly game you are playing. As they say, don't go into a den of lions meowing like a pussycat

can't say it is deadly game even for US itself. Haqani network and taliban pakistan support is in national interest of Pakistan. It is only against India not against US, same goes for Nuclear weapons. US is not understanding this basic thing. Only way to tackle US is which we are doing right now. Seems like current government of Pakistan is doing a terrible job. That's why I always supported musharaf. He knew how to extract money from you plus support pakistan interest.

 

[idune]

In my view, the best moment for Pakistan to back its bluff is now. Trump will be lucky to survive till 2020 with all the impeachment talk going around. Pakistan will be best advised to charge maximum on GLOC/ALOC while substantially downscaling intelligence sharing arrangements with their counterparts. In fact, Pakistan should try its best to paralyze the relations to the extent it becomes a domestic American issue with opposing parties trading blame game. This will allow whoever wins 2020 elections to reset the relations and who’ll give Pakistan another chance to correct the naive mistakes made by Musharraf. Trump is the best thing to happen to Pakistan but most Pakistanis don’t see it that way. They either foolishly dismiss his bluster or have a very bad reading of domestic US considerations. Mark this spot, if Trump gets away with his moves, the worst is yet to come.

Long term, Pakistan needs to actively court its Pakistani-American community and leverage their connections to sell Pakistan’s interests.

In Pakistani defense and political establishment there are US "beneficiary class" who are actively preventing Pakistan from taking decision for charging for transport and logistics. Unless Pakistan do Turkey style internal cleansing that type of decision will be difficult.

From all different recent actions, Pakistan wants to gain strategic independence. For that to happen pursuing relation with US should not be the goal but put US relation in a contained and controlled box should be the goal. Core of US expansionist policy and practices, no matter what, will always be anti Pakistan and anti regional stability. Pakistan or any other regional countries can not accept that.

 

[Mahmood-ur-Rehman]

The U.S. decision to cut up to $2 billion in military assistance to Pakistan is not expected to affect the supply lines the U.S. relies upon for its Afghanistan operations, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Friday.

The State Department announced the cuts Thursday in order to pressure the Pakistani government to “take decisive action” against extremist groups that operate from Pakistan, including the Haqqani Network and the Taliban.

The announcement followed President Donald Trump accusing Pakistan of “lies and deceit” in his first Tweet of the new year. “They give safe haven to the terrorists we hunt in Afghanistan, with little help. No more!” Trump tweeted Jan. 1.

On Friday, Pakistan defended its record against fighting extremism and left open the possibility that the U.S. decision to cut aid could indeed impact U.S. operations there.

“We are engaged with the U.S. administration on the issue of security cooperation and await further details,” Pakistan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement. “Impact of [the] U.S. decision on pursuit of common objectives is also likely to emerge more clearly in due course of time.”

On Friday, a Trump administration official outlined the total cuts. The $2 billion includes about $1 billion in planned military assistance, including the $255 million in foreign military financing that was already on hold, and $900 million in Coalition Support Funds that would reimburse Pakistan for counterterrorism operations.

In an off-camera briefing with reporters on Friday, Mattis took a more conciliatory approach. He acknowledged Pakistan’s anti-terrorism efforts and emphasized that aid would be restored if the U.S. sees evidence of renewed effort by Pakistan.

“I think many of you are aware that Pakistan has lost more troops, total, than all the NATO coalition combined,” in the counterterrorism fight inside Pakistan, Mattis said.

“As you saw in the statement, there were very specific words that said we’re still working with Pakistan, and we would restore the aid if we see decisive movements against the terrorists who are as much of a threat against Pakistan as they are against us,” Mattis said, referring to the State Departments official announcement on the aid cuts Thursday.

Mattis said he had “no indication” from the Pakistani government that the U.S. decision would impact the ground lines of communication, or GLOCs, that supply convoys use to deliver food and equipment to U.S. bases in Afghanistan. The U.S. has alternative routes to supply its forces, including flying supplies in, but that is much more expensive.

Trump had been hinting at cutting off additional aid to Pakistan since he announced his South Asia Strategy last year. The South Asia strategy took a regional approach, including engagement with India and Pakistan, to trying to end the now 17-year war in Afghanistan.

“We have been paying Pakistan billions and billions of dollars at the same time they are housing the very terrorists that we are fighting. But that will have to change, and that will change immediately,” Trump said in a speech in Virginia in August, when he outlined the new strategy.

Mattis said that Thursday’s announcement was in line with the strategy, and would be accompanied by continued engagement with Pakistan.

“Everything we are doing is integrated into the strategy,” Mattis said. “Obviously we’ll continue talking with one another.”

https://www.defensenews.com/flashpo...-decision-will-impact-afghanistan-operations/

WE will not let you go

 

[Dalit]

I disagree with that. Iran has shown time and again that it will stand up for itself. The Iranian population despite their domestic differences are generally united on foreign policy issues. The recent riots were a result of economic situation there. The last time US commandos were sent to Iran, they were shot down and arrested. It’s a country that takes it red lines very seriously and generally the state has a close eye on movements of what it considers anti-state actors both individuals and groups and they go very hard against them. In Pakistan, these lines are very blurred. Granted, it might serve some strategic purpose to have the GLOC/ALOC open, but why shouldnt pakistan charge them at a rate of its choosing? Your foreign minister is on record saying GLOC/ALOC are being provided free of charge. With all the hostile steps being taken against your country, it’s mindboggling to understand why you can’t charge for these lines of communication. Too often Pakistanis tend to take major positions without any careful analysis. It’s a position that is informed by ignorance or hubris. It’s a common feature among its policy makers and public alike.

This is an excellent analysis. There can only be one possible explanation for this. After all, no country would tolerate abuse in the manner Pakistan has suffered for so many years.

Let's be frank. Pakistani leaders in all ranks have spilled the beans. During OBL drama our air force chief is on record to admit that they wouldn't challenge US drone strikes due to air power difference etc. The most contentious issue that strikes fear is that of economic blackmail. Pakistani leaders believe that without US monetary help and threats of being cut off from international monetary institutes there is no survival. This fear has led Pakistan to allow the US to freely use the supply routes. The Americans have for years succeeded in manipulating and blackmailing our leaders. Remember, Pakistani leaders have a lot at stake in the US. They have properties and massive wealth stacked up in Western capitals. Their relatives live, earn and are educated in Western capitals. Would they risk losing these perks and stand up for Pakistan?

Our leadership thinks it can weather this storm like they have in the past. The truth is that this is a very different kind of storm and you have to be prepared. The only way to survive is to either push back hard or to cower and accept the terms of engagement.

Pakistan must at a minimum make it abundantly clear that the supply routes shouldn't be taken for granted. They should for now remain open, but we MUST charge the Americans. Failure to do so will embolden the Trump regime. The need for Mattis to reiterate the use of our supply routes confirms our weakness and failure.

What possible threat can the US make to bypass Pakistani supply routes? The alternatives can be counted on one hand. They are extremely costly and even a power like the US will fall in line like we have seen in the past. Some alternatives would require regime change and a lot of time which the US simply doesn't have. I wouldn't be surprised if the latest protests in Iran were engineered to test the waters. They failed miserably as expected. It is mind-numbing how Pakistan has for all these years kept mum and accepted these ridiculous terms. It is like allowing a thief to enter your home and watch the robbery from the couch.