UNGA speech: Nawaz proposes 4-point peace initiative with India

[karan.1970]

Full text: India's reply to Pakistan at the UN - The Times of India

It is regrettable that the delegation of Pakistan has once again chosen to misuse the High Level Segment of the UN General Assembly Session to distort reality and portray a false picture of the challenges in our region.

Pakistan claims to be the primary victim of terrorism. In truth, it is actually a victim of its own policies of breeding and sponsoring terrorists. Seeking to mask its activities as though an outcome of domestic discontent in the Indian State of Jammu & Kashmir carries no credibility with the world.

Mr President,

It was stated that Jammu and Kashmir is under foreign occupation. It is, except that the occupier in question is Pakistan. In fact, India's reservations about the proposed China-Pakistan Economic Corridor stem from the fact that it passes through Indian territory illegally occupied by Pakistan for many years.

Pakistan apparently regrets that the dispute over Jammu and Kashmir remains unresolved and that our dialogue has not progressed. If it is so, this is because Pakistan has chosen to disregard its commitments, whether it was under the 1972 Simla Agreement, the 2004 Joint Declaration forswearing terrorism, or more recently, the understanding between our two Prime Ministers at Ufa. On each occasion, it is India that has extended the hand of friendship. India remains open even today to engage Pakistan on outstanding issues in an atmosphere free of terrorism and violence.

Mr President,

Reference was made to ceasefire violations and exchanges of fire along the Line of Control and the International Boundary. The world knows that the primary reason for firing is to provide cover to terrorists crossing the border. It needs no imagination to figure out which side initiates this exchange.

It is not uncommon for states, when confronted with serious challenges, to shift responsibility on others. That is the case with Pakistan and terrorism, reflecting the inability to recognize that this is a home grown problem that has begun to bite the hand that fed it. We agree that terrorism has underlying causes - in this case, poverty of wisdom and ignorance of consequences.

Mr President,

The heart of the matter is a state that regards the use of terrorism as a legitimate instrument of statecraft. The world watches with concern as its consequences have spread beyond its immediate neighbourhood. All of us stand prepared to help, if only the creators of this monster wake up to the dangers of what they have done to themselves.



Statement by First Secretary, Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations exercising India's Right of Reply during the General Debate of 70th session of UN General Assembly (September 30, 2015)October 01, 2015Mr President,

It is regrettable that the delegation of Pakistan has once again chosen to misuse the High Level Segment of the UN General Assembly Session to distort reality and portray a false picture of the challenges in our region.

Pakistan claims to be the primary victim of terrorism. In truth, it is actually a victim of its own policies of breeding and sponsoring terrorists. Seeking to mask its activities as though an outcome of domestic discontent in the Indian State of Jammu & Kashmir carries no credibility with the world.

Mr President,

It was stated that Jammu and Kashmir is under foreign occupation. It is, except that the occupier in question is Pakistan. In fact, India's reservations about the proposed China-Pakistan Economic Corridor stem from the fact that it passes through Indian territory illegally occupied by Pakistan for many years.

Pakistan apparently regrets that the dispute over Jammu and Kashmir remains unresolved and that our dialogue has not progressed. If it is so, this is because Pakistan has chosen to disregard its commitments, whether it was under the 1972 Simla Agreement, the 2004 Joint Declaration forswearing terrorism, or more recently, the understanding between our two Prime Ministers at Ufa. On each occasion, it is India that has extended the hand of friendship. India remains open even today to engage Pakistan on outstanding issues in an atmosphere free of terrorism and violence.

Mr President,

Reference was made to ceasefire violations and exchanges of fire along the Line of Control and the International Boundary. The world knows that the primary reason for firing is to provide cover to terrorists crossing the border. It needs no imagination to figure out which side initiates this exchange.

It is not uncommon for states, when confronted with serious challenges, to shift responsibility on others. That is the case with Pakistan and terrorism, reflecting the inability to recognize that this is a home grown problem that has begun to bite the hand that fed it. We agree that terrorism has underlying causes - in this case, poverty of wisdom and ignorance of consequences.

Mr President,

The heart of the matter is a state that regards the use of terrorism as a legitimate instrument of statecraft. The world watches with concern as its consequences have spread beyond its immediate neighbourhood. All of us stand prepared to help, if only the creators of this monster wake up to the dangers of what they have done to themselves.

 

[ThaniOruvan]

Considering you are on my forum with me as a moderator. Gotta admire your courage, wont help you long though.

Second, Im not blaming anyone. Im analysing your lack of intellect in presenting a logical solution.

So what ? It doesn't deter me from expressing my views.

It is very simple. Pakistan asks for Kashmir and India will denies it. There won't be any change in Indian stand
and Pakistan's all attempts to make that stand change has been futile. So Pakistan must accept its failure and give up the claims.
Don't say India giving up Kashmir is a logical solution, it will never happen. It didn't happen even when anti-national congress ruled.
Will Pakistan approve Afghanistan's claim of your land ? NO.
So stop claiming Kashmir and gracefully vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir..

 

[SQ8]

So what ? It doesn't deter me from expressing my views.

It is very simple. Pakistan asks for Kashmir and India will denies it. There won't be any change in Indian stand
and Pakistan's all attempts to make that stand change has been futile. So Pakistan must accept its failure and give up the claims.
Don't say India giving up Kashmir is a logical solution, it will never happen. It didn't happen even when anti-national congress ruled.
Will Pakistan approve Afghanistan's claim of your land ? NO.
So stop claiming Kashmir and gracefully vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir..

Your views wont survive me unless they have your three brain cells making an input. You;ll be thrown out in an instant. Keep that in mind.

Not happening. Neither did I say India giving up Kashmir is a logical solution. Your mind is fed with lies to believe that every Pakistani thinks that. I would rather see the LOC turned to a border and moving on with life.

 

[Spectre]

Nope.

It was a hearty guffaw. When standing on the gallows trapdoor, a chuckle doesn't really cut it.

Gallows humour: Grim and ironical humour in a desperate or hopeless situation.

“The ego refuses to be distressed by the provocations of reality, to let itself be compelled to suffer. It insists that it cannot be affected by the traumas of the external world; it shows, in fact, that such traumas are no more than occasions for it to gain pleasure.” ....Sigmund Freud

 

[ThaniOruvan]

Your views wont survive me unless they have your three brain cells making an input. You;ll be thrown out in an instant. Keep that in mind.

Not happening. Neither did I say India giving up Kashmir is a logical solution. Your mind is fed with lies to believe that every Pakistani thinks that. I would rather see the LOC turned to a border and moving on with life.

Ain't gonna happen. Pakistan vacating Pakistan Occupied Kashmir peacefully is imperative.
Sir, I do not care if you exercise your power to throw me out of this forum for expressing my views without offending anyone.

 

[Spectre]

I think India is in a much better position in Sri Lanka now than it was before during the last govt. The Modi govt has also done an admirable job by solving the long standing border issues with Bangladesh. The current problem in Nepal is their own creation and the problem is mostly domestic. India need to tread cautiously there. As far as Pakistan is concerned, India has been ambiguous in its approach before, which have not resulted in anything positive. Modi govt's firm, to the point approach is a welcome change.

As I said India has taken a high risk high return stance in many issues where as under previous Govts it was risk averse. Nothing wrong with it except the upside is that India gets a seat at high table and the downside is a disaster of epic proportions. In Finance we call it a Black Swan event.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I hope those of us making heavy weather of this thread recognise Oscar as one of the wittiest, wickedest and most urbane of commentators, who combines a cynical view of the ability of senior government officials and politicians with a disillusioned insight into the wonderful actions that the combination provides. When he deigns to engage, it is usually with a poniard; he disdains rapiers as overkill. And that is a measure of the man. I say this through clenched teeth and nursing the slash wounds inflicted in a masterful flick of the wrist, in passing.

Those of my friends taking him on would do well to watch his languid, understated style, rather than work themselves into a lather trying to beat down his defences. That will not work. The man uses footwork, not muscular sinews. It is more instructive to see where he is not than to try and predict where he will be. Read his posts again and see for yourself. Every thought is inflected. Every phrase is crafted to bring the opponent's blow crashing into empty space.

A master lesson.

@ThaniOruvan
@Spectre

 

[SQ8]

Nope.

It was a hearty guffaw. When standing on the gallows trapdoor, a chuckle doesn't really cut it.

The gallows may be a little too far. Lets be optimistic. Im thinking more along the lines of a week of limited cannon fodder being fed to the meat grinder across various points along the border before the rest of the world steps in with "now now".
One positive outcome might be that in return for "restraining" India after such a cannon fodder fest, we might actually see pressure to get men like HS picked out. Although the pandora's box he holds might require more sacrifices to the altar before he can be given up safely knowing that those he can tell on are either in their grave naturally , or have ended up that way.

Still, I stumbled upon the hand waving video in this place.. almost having a Dr Seuss voice going
"As he waved his hand, to and fro.. little did Nawaz know. What lay in wait, for him and General gung ho.. was a most unpleasant kick to the toe"

I hope those of us making heavy weather of this thread recognise Oscar as one of the wittiest, wickedest and most urbane of commentators, who combines a cynical view of the ability of senior government officials and politicians with a disillusioned insight into the wonderful actions that the combination provides. When he deigns to engage, it is usually with a poniard; he disdains rapiers as overkill. And that is a measure of the man. I say this through clenched teeth and nursing the slash wounds inflicted in a masterful flick of the wrist, in passing.

Those of my friends taking him on would do well to watch his languid, understated style, rather than work themselves into a lather trying to beat down his defences. That will not work. The man uses footwork, not muscular sinews. It is more instructive to see where he is not than to try and predict where he will be. Read his posts again and see for yourself. Every thought is inflected. Every phrase is crafted to bring the opponent's blow crashing into empty space.

A master lesson.

You exalt too much Monseigneur. One is perhaps the belligerent insecure monster that most think of me to be.
But at least I get to be in tune with your PM in that case.

 

[darksider]

So what ? It doesn't deter me from expressing my views.

It is very simple. Pakistan asks for Kashmir and India will denies it. There won't be any change in Indian stand
and Pakistan's all attempts to make that stand change has been futile. So Pakistan must accept its failure and give up the claims.
Don't say India giving up Kashmir is a logical solution, it will never happen. It didn't happen even when anti-national congress ruled.
Will Pakistan approve Afghanistan's claim of your land ? NO.
So stop claiming Kashmir and gracefully vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir..

My dear indian friend pls open your eys and remove indian propogenda from your mind.
I see indians here are more delusional than us Pakistanis.
We know india will not leave iok with her current position.
A blind man can see that.if india leave kashmir.then india have to leave some of her other parts also.
But it doesnot mean we stop highliting indian attrocties in Kashmir as your wish.
And what you mean gracefully leave Pakistani Kashmir?
Jabab if you have courage try to take it back?
I know india is soupa powa.
So try to karrain khaali theats hi kartey rehtey hain.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I now have to take leave, with great regret, of this very promising thread, which came along as a purely windfall gain (to match your 'black swan' event, @Spectre ?) There are THINGS TO BE DONE. Some of those regular, official kind of things, classes and such, an exam just finished which left the students in seething fury. Some of a more pleasurable kind, involving...oh, never mind.

Try not to burn the place down, people, while I'm away.

 

[ThaniOruvan]

My dear indian friend pls open your eys and remove indian propogenda from your mind.
I see indians here are more delusional than us Pakistanis.
We know india will not leave iok with her current position.
A blind man can see that.if india leave kashmir.then india have to leave some of her other parts also.
But it doesnot mean we stop highliting indian attrocties in Kashmir as your wish.
And what you mean gracefully leave Pakistani Kashmir?
Jabab if you have courage try to take it back?
I know india is soupa powa.
So try to karrain khaali theats hi kartey rehtey hain.

Eventually that is going to happen if Pakistan is unnecessarily disturbing India. War.

The so called atrocities in Kashmir which people like you use for targeted propaganda is our internal affair.
Outsiders must not interfere in it is my point.
If you think that as delusional then I have no remorse for your claims.
Like many others you have encountered I am not here to drag fight with Pakistanis.

 

[MilSpec]

Does anyone here remember a show called "Junglee toofan tire puncture"...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Does anyone here remember a show called "Junglee toofan tire puncture"...

No.

Tell.

Make it quick.

 

[Spectre]

I hope those of us making heavy weather of this thread recognise Oscar as one of the wittiest, wickedest and most urbane of commentators, who combines a cynical view of the ability of senior government officials and politicians with a disillusioned insight into the wonderful actions that the combination provides. When he deigns to engage, it is usually with a poniard; he disdains rapiers as overkill. And that is a measure of the man. I say this through clenched teeth and nursing the slash wounds inflicted in a masterful flick of the wrist, in passing.

Those of my friends taking him on would do well to watch his languid, understated style, rather than work themselves into a lather trying to beat down his defences. That will not work. The man uses footwork, not muscular sinews. It is more instructive to see where he is not than to try and predict where he will be. Read his posts again and see for yourself. Every thought is inflected. Every phrase is crafted to bring the opponent's blow crashing into empty space.

A master lesson.

@ThaniOruvan
@Spectre

Reading Oscar's comments is always a pleasure

From your comments I see you are a fencing aficionado so in fencing terms, I employ Cavazione followed by Cob’s Traverse when engaging him.

He hammers opponents down with his wit and is ridiculously unmindful of social niceties once he gets going.

 

[MilSpec]

No.

Tell.

Make it quick.

It's content (as the name suggests) was exactly as irrelevant as the construct of the narrative between the two countries at present.

 

[jaunty]

As I said India has taken a high risk high return stance in many issues where as under previous Govts it was risk averse. Nothing wrong with it except the upside is that India gets a seat at high table and the downside is a disaster of epic proportions. In Finance we call it a Black Swan event.

I don't see this high risk approach anywhere other than vis-a-vis Pakistan. Other South Asian countries pose no significant security threat and if anything, relations have actually improved under this govt, especially with SL and Bangladesh. Pakistan is a special case. You can be nice, be reserved, be hesitant to state your position, be defensive-- you get appealing optics--the occasional bhaichara-- until something goes wrong which btw always does and it's back to square one. That is the tried and tested approach- the "low risk, low return" approach in your words. The other approach is to be firm, state your position clearly-- talk only if there is a meaningful agenda and cut down meaningless niceties. Is it a high risk approach? Perhaps! But what kind of risk are we talking about here? IMHO it is not a high risk approach but a pragmatic one.