UK's war 'failure sparked Pakistan violence'

[EagleEyes]

UK's war 'failure sparked Pakistan violence'

A senior former ally of President Pervez Musharraf claimed America and Britain's "failure" in Afghanistan sparked a wave of violence in Pakistan.

"The West has failed in Afghanistan and so has shifted the blame to Pakistan," Lt-Gen Orakzai, told The Daily Telegraph in his first interview since resigning earlier this year as governor of the restive North West Frontier province.

Gen Orakzai said US demands for Pakistan "to do more, more and more" had led to the military bombing its own citizens in the border tribal areas, and prompting a "war of resistance".

He added the threat posed by al-Qa'eda in the tribal areas had been "greatly exaggerated" by the West, and the military strikes had caused many innocent deaths and a lot of collateral damage.

"There was a lot of resentment... people wanted revenge for the loss of their loved ones. It snowballed."

Gen Orakzai, a Pushtun from the tribal areas, was reportedly asked to resign as governor after brokering a controversial peace agreement in North Waziristan.

US officials said the deal had led to a threefold increase in cross-border infiltration of militants from Pakistan to Afghanistan and allegedly leant on Mr Musharraf to remove him.

"Nobody has said don't fight terrorism. But if the US keeps asking us to do more, Pakistan will be in a critical position," said Gen Orakzai. "So leave us alone for some time and let us give a political solution a chance."

His remarks came amid increasing US concerns Pakistan's counter-terrorism co-operation may wane as the new coalition government looks set to clip the power of Washington's ally, Mr Musharraf, or possibly oust him.

Asif Ali Zardari, the co-chairman of the senior coalition partner, the Pakistan's People's Party, and Nawaz Sharif, the former prime minister, have both stated the new government would "redefine" Pakistan's stance on the US-led "war on terror".

Mr Musharraf's support for the US-led campaign has been deeply unpopular and the new government of prime minister Yusf Raza Gilani has pledged to reach a national consensus on how to deal with tribal militants.

A sullen-faced Mr Musharraf swore in Mr Gilani, an aide of the late Benazir Bhutto whom he once jailed for five years on trumped-up political charges. Supporters chanted "Long Live Bhutto" as the new prime minister repeated the oath.

UK's war 'failure sparked Pakistan violence' - Telegraph

 

[batmannow]

thats, great why he is saying all that now?
he, had his good times with them and he never complaind about any thing before, why now?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Excuses for not being able to govern!

He is a great chap and everyone is an a-ss!!\

The usual excuse of own's failure!

 

[sparten]

Orakzai is a great chap. Thats the truth.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I don't quite understand his argument - he was in charge, the peace deals were implemented. They collapsed because B Mehsud and the North Waziristan chaps terminated them in the aftermath of the LM operation, not because the PA decide to undertake any major operation in FATA at that time.

That is my understanding of the events, so how can Orakzai claim that his efforts were an overwhelming success?

When one party starts beheading, torturing and suicide bombing on the pretext of "check posts" and the GoP attempting to establish its writ in its own Capital, I fail to see why the PA should not have responded to make clear that any designs to bring about a "Mullah revolution" starting in the Tribal areas would not be allowed.

Now, if his argument is primarily focused on the recent attempts to broker deals with the Taliban leadership and possibly break apart the TTP, I can understand his concern about NATO strikes exacerbating the situation. For example, when the first strike in NW occurred, it was in the area of a Taliban leader who was reportedly in negotiations with the GoP, and one of the concerns in the aftermath was that those negotiations would now be broken off. NATO does need to be more conscientious of continuing non-military Pakistani efforts.

On his assertion that the NATO failure in Afghanistan is to blame - it is true to an extent. The Taliban continue to find support amongst the Afghan populace - development and uplift of Afghanistan and an extension of the writ of the State to the majority of the country remain severely lacking. The poppy crop continues to increase and provide funding for the Taliban and other criminal elements (who also play their part in destabilizing the country and increasing the sense of despair).

This is not to suggest that NATO isn't trying, but they are not having any overwhelming success either, and tangible, long term change remains elusive.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is a natural phenomenon to salute the Rising Sun!

Now that President Musharraf backed political conglomerate has been drubbed in the elections, the proverbial rats are deserting the sinking ship. It speaks of their resolve to have tried to solve issue when they were in power and yet possibly did not have their heart in the task but lacked the courage to speak out.

It is fine that today one can on hindsight find President Musharraf and his polices at fault with the new euphoria that is always there amongst people when a change occurs and when the situation earlier was stagnating in a cul de sac!

It is worth waiting if the new rulers can deliver where President Musharraf failed.

That will be the proof of the pudding and justify the euphoria that has enlightened those who were seized with despondency!

In so far as the NATO forces are concerned, the actual fighting element is chickenfeed when compared to the forces essential to fight insurgency in such a terrain as Afghanistan.

Further, one wonders if they really want to leave Afghanistan or have a reason festering for continued presence so that the greater strategic aim is achieved!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is a natural phenomenon to salute the Rising Sun!

Now that President Musharraf backed political conglomerate has been drubbed in the elections, the proverbial rats are deserting the sinking ship. It speaks of their resolve to have tried to solve issue when they were in power and yet possibly did not have their heart in the task but lacked the courage to speak out.

It is fine that today one can on hindsight find President Musharraf and his polices at fault with the new euphoria that is always there amongst people when a change occurs and when the situation earlier was stagnating in a cul de sac!

It is worth waiting if the new rulers can deliver where President Musharraf failed.

I agree Salim. I don't think Musharraf's (or Orakzai's) efforts to "negotiate" a solution can be faulted, and that is not what I am criticizing him for. I have issue with suggestions that it was solely "NATO pressure" that brought about the current situation. As I attempted to explore above, the Pakistani Taliban needed but the slightest pretext to go on the war path, and to initially counter that there was no choice but to fight back with force.

Mullah Fazlullah in Swat was but an extension of the wave of extremism that thought it could simply challenge the State (ala Afghanistan I suppose), set up their obscurantist "Shariah fiefdoms" and get away with it.

Many Pakistanis tend to view the Taliban movement solely through the prizm of "Pashtun/Muslim" nationalist and religious sentiment against a war and occupation by NATO perceived to be directed against Islam. There needs to be a recognition of the underlying xenophobic religious extremism, and a form of "Islamic Nationalism", that has very little to do with Afghan occupation or Pasthun nationalism, and a lot with overthrowing what they view as a "corrupt and depraved order" in the Muslim world, beholden to US interests and diktat. This is the sentiment that will not be assuaged no matter how many schools, roads and hospitals are built. It will decline in terms of its popularity with the masses no doubt, as development is undertaken, but it will never die out in those who have taken the cause to heart.

That will be the proof of the pudding and justify the euphoria that has enlightened those who were seized with despondency!

Agreed - I would be in complete favor of letting the ANP/NWFP provincial Govt. take control of the process. It helps disperse the perception that "outsiders" (non-Pashtun) are "opressing and killing the Pashtun under the guise of terrorism".

In so far as the NATO forces are concerned, the actual fighting element is chickenfeed when compared to the forces essential to fight insurgency in such a terrain as Afghanistan.

Further, one wonders if they really want to leave Afghanistan or have a reason festering for continued presence so that the greater strategic aim is achieved!!

The Taliban are part of Afghanistan, NATO is not - the NATO presence can perhaps be considered large enough to only keep the "pot boiling", and the longer this situation continues, the stronger the sense amongst the insurgency affected populace that the Taliban will last this out and be the eventual arbiters of Afghan destiny - so why cross them?

Ideologically the Taliban have the advantage - they frame their narrative under the banner of Islam, from the perspective of the Pashtun, the Afghan and the Muslim. NATO has democracy and freedom - a great ideology no doubt, but it is also tied into the perception of a "secular West", whose society, the one they are perceived to be implanting in Afghanistan, is one of moral depravity, vulgarity and "godlessness".

Ideologically the West cannot win the war of ideas unless it is able to offer a physical manifestation of the benefits of "democracy and freedom" within an "Islamic cover" - and that is not about elections, but the writ of the State (strong enough to allay the fear and intimidation of the Taliban, and instill a sense of confidence in the longevity of the State), strong institutions that deliver justice and services and development.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

AM,

I am not commenting on your posts.

I am just feeling immensely depressed about the values of mankind.

They lick the feet and kiss the ground that one treads on when one is in Power and then stabs in the back when one has fallen!

I agree that is a part of life and one should accept!

The change in tack even here in this very forum saddens me!

I am an Indian, but the effort of Musharraf, warts and all to build bridges internationally and not only Indo Pak, just to propel Pakistan into a position of reckoning seems to have been lost sight of.

Forgive me, but if religion alone could give solace and prosperity, then it would be a different case.

I agree his policies have not appeal to the fundamental principle that some feel is the bedrock of Islam.

But my question is does Islam mean confrontation and ruining oneself and his country and his people's prosperity?

I know this post would not be palatable to many, but religion has to be tempered with reality, be it for Pakistan, the US or India orany other country!!

It pains me that religious subconscious seems to motivate posts!

When the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, did it make them a world leader? It may have brought solace in a religious sense, but did it bring education and prosperity to the people and their well being? Are women chattel?

I say all this because I know that Pakistan is not an obscurantist country and a country that has no hope beyond the Islamic confines. It has hope and it has destiny and it can find its rightful place in the world!

In fact, it is a leader in the Islamic world!

Musharraf signatured this leadership!

If the so called democratic leaders can do better, so be it, However, their past records and their present activities belies hope!

Byt, yes, democracy has returned.

Hopefully the democratic precedence does not repeat!

Strong words from my side, but I hope it is taken in the correct spirit since I wish Pakistan well!

I sincerely and honestly do!

I am no spring chicken. I have seen and experienced the futility of the foolishness of the confrontation relationship and its armed consequence that brought no profit to either nation!