Uighur Support Thread

[atatwolf]

The World Uyghur Congress (WUC) is an international organisation that represents the collective interest of the Uyghur people both in East Turkestan and abroad.

The WUC was established on 16 April 2004 in Munich, Germany, after the East Turkestan National Congress and the World Uyghur Youth Congress merged into one united organisation. The main objective of WUC is to promote the right of the Uyghur people to use peaceful, nonviolent, and democratic means to determine the political future of East Turkestan.

The WUC is a democratic organisation. All of WUC leadership was democratically elected by the participants from all over the world in the General Assembly. They all serve a three-year term. WUC has close contacts and working relations with most Uyghur organisations in the world that peacefully promote human rights, religious freedom, and democracy for the Uyghur people in East Turkestan.

On the First General Assembly of WUC in 2004 Mr. Erkin Alptekin was elected as president. He had lead WUC to its second General Assembly in 2006. Mr. Alptekin is a former general secretary of the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization (UNPO) based in The Hague, the Netherlands. He has remarkable experience in working with international organisations and governments in lobbying for the Uyghur people’s right to self-determination. He is also a close friend of the Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of the Tibetan people.

On the Second General Assembly of the WUC, which took place in Munich from 24 – 27 November 2006, all delegates elected Ms. Rebiya Kadeer as the president of WUC.

The Third General Assembly of the WUC was convened in Washington, DC from 21 – 25 May 2009. Delegates and observers from Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Holland, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Norway, Sweden, Turkey and the United States attended the Assembly.

The Fourth General Assembly of the WUC was convened in Tokyo, Japan from 14 – 18 May 2012. Delegates and observers from Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Holland, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Norway, Sweden, Turkey and the United States attended the Assembly. Ms. Rebiya Kadeer, the leader of the international Uyghur human rights and democracy movement, was re-elected unanimously as the president of the WUC.

Before Rebiya Kadeer was elected as the president of WUC, she founded the “Uyghur Human Rights and Democracy Foundation” and headed the Uyghur American Association (UAA) based on Washington DC. She was also the winner of Rafto Prize and the nominee for 2005-2006-2007-2008-2009-2010-2011 Nobel Peace Prize. She spent nearly six years in Chinese prisons. After her release in 2006, she has been exerting all her energy to fight for freedom, democracy and human rights for Uyghur people. For her great work she is entitled as the “Leader and the Spiritual Mother of Uyghurs”.

I opened this thread so we can share support for Uighur people. Post articles, news and dicuss the Uighur matter in a civilized manner.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Pretty amazing how China was able to keep the majority of her empire (only outer Mongolia is gone) after the collapse of the Qing against all odds. Soviet Union was actively trying to destabilize the XinJiang region to turn it into a soviet puppet much like Outer Mongolia.

On the other hand, Turkey seem to have done far worse in retaining her former Ottoman Empire.

Anyway, I sense too much panturkism agenda. I don't think XinJiang and Tibet can gain independence in any foreseeable future (not in my lifetime). They couldn't even do so when china was at its weakest from from 1911-1949, and the Chinese seems extremely determined to keep their empire.

Part of the reason is there are no strong states that actively support it because they prefer good relations with China over some petty human rights point. Same reason why many states don't bother with the Armenian genocide when dealing with Turkey.

I think China can take a page from UK - send a massive amount of Han to the XinJiang region and hold a referendum.

 

[atatwolf]

Chinese Economic Collapse and Disintegration
"China’s economy, like the economies of Japan and other East Asian states before it, will reduce its rate of growth dramatically in order to calibrate growth with the rate of return on capital and to bring its financial system into balance. To do this, it will have to deal with the resulting social and political tensions," says STRATFOR's Decade Forecast.

It explains: "First, China’s current economic model is not sustainable. That model favors employment over all other concerns, and can only be maintained by running on thin margins."

"Second, the Chinese model is only possible so long as Western populations continue to consume Chinese goods in increasing volumes. European demographics alone will make that impossible in the next decade."

"Third, the Chinese model requires cheap labor as well as cheap capital to produce cheap goods. The bottom has fallen out of the Chinese birthrate; by 2020 the average Chinese will be nearly as old as the average American, but will have achieved nowhere near the level of education to add as much value. The result will be a labor shortage in both qualitative and quantitative terms."

"Finally, internal tensions will break the current system. More than 1 billion Chinese live in households whose income is below $2,000 a year (with 600 million below $1,000 a year). The government knows this and is trying to shift resources to the vast interior comprising the bulk of China. But this region is so populous and so poor — and so vulnerable to minor shifts in China’s economic fortunes — that China simply lacks the resources to cope."

Pretty amazing how China was able to keep the majority of her empire (only outer Mongolia is gone) after the collapse of the Qing against all odds. Soviet Union was actively trying to destabilize the XinJiang region to turn it into a soviet puppet much like Outer Mongolia.

If Mongolia can get independence so can Uighur and Tibetans. Especially during the economic crises that is going to hit China not only Tibetans and Uighur will want independence but even some Chinese regions that are hostile to Beijing rule. China is declining power and it is inevitable to it will fragment.

STRATFOR: “CHINA WILL COLLAPSE” | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

 

[IsaacNewton]

Chinese Economic Collapse and Disintegration
"China’s economy, like the economies of Japan and other East Asian states before it, will reduce its rate of growth dramatically in order to calibrate growth with the rate of return on capital and to bring its financial system into balance. To do this, it will have to deal with the resulting social and political tensions," says STRATFOR's Decade Forecast.

It explains: "First, China’s current economic model is not sustainable. That model favors employment over all other concerns, and can only be maintained by running on thin margins."

"Second, the Chinese model is only possible so long as Western populations continue to consume Chinese goods in increasing volumes. European demographics alone will make that impossible in the next decade."

"Third, the Chinese model requires cheap labor as well as cheap capital to produce cheap goods. The bottom has fallen out of the Chinese birthrate; by 2020 the average Chinese will be nearly as old as the average American, but will have achieved nowhere near the level of education to add as much value. The result will be a labor shortage in both qualitative and quantitative terms."

"Finally, internal tensions will break the current system. More than 1 billion Chinese live in households whose income is below $2,000 a year (with 600 million below $1,000 a year). The government knows this and is trying to shift resources to the vast interior comprising the bulk of China. But this region is so populous and so poor — and so vulnerable to minor shifts in China’s economic fortunes — that China simply lacks the resources to cope."



If Mongolia can get independence so can Uighur and Tibetans. Especially during the economic crises that is going to hit China not only Tibetans and Uighur will want independence but even some Chinese regions that are hostile to Beijing rule. China is declining power and it is inevitable to it will fragment.

STRATFOR: “CHINA WILL COLLAPSE” | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

That article was written in 2010, and the prediction for the decade seems off already after 4 and a half years.
Stratfor's articles are geared toward the most gullible people of society much like those books and movies about how the world will end in 2012. They just tell people what they want to hear, or play toward some fear mongering to get money.

There is simply no reason to believe China will collapse anytime soon. In fact, most countries don't want it to collapse. Do you know that after 1989, Japan was the first to restore good relations with China because they realize that an unstable China with nuclear weapons is bad for the world, while a strong China that is more integrated with the world is less of a threat.

 

[atatwolf]

That article was written in 2010, and the prediction for the decade seems off already after 4 and a half years.
Stratfor's articles are geared toward the most gullible people of society much like those books and movies about how the world will end in 2012. They just tell people what they want to hear, or play toward some fear mongering to get money.

There is simply no reason to believe China will collapse anytime soon. In fact, most countries don't want it to collapse. Do you know that after 1989, Japan was the first to restore good relations with China because they realize that an unstable China with nuclear weapons is bad for the world, while a strong China that is more integrated with the world is less of a threat.

But that is such a bullshit argument. Soviet Empire also had nuclear weapons when it collapsed. If you like it or not. China is fighting cold war with its neighbors. They are threatening all neighbors. Everybody would benefit and support the downfall of such a tyrannic communist country.

International markets already decided which countries are going to follow up China. China is becoming a very old country. 40 years on average per capita. China can't keep this cheap labor economy going on forever and it doesn't have the chance to change their business model either because of big portions of Chinese society who are living in utter poverty. China's destiny is inevitable.

Actually at the moment Beijing is withholding certain regions from doing business with Japan. There will come a point when these regions will brake free from Beijing and accept Japanese investment and sphere of influence.

 

[Mugwop]

Maybe if an asteroid hits china then the economy might collapse....MAYBE

 

[IsaacNewton]

But that is such a bullshit argument. Soviet Empire also had nuclear weapons when it collapsed. If you like it or not. China is fighting cold war with its neighbors. They are threatening all neighbors. Everybody would benefit and support the downfall of such a tyrannic communist country.

Soviet Union collapse was indeed out of the blue. They just went along with the whole anti communist wave in eastern Europe after 1989 and let the ethnic tension in USSR get out of hand.

There are key differences between China and Soviet though.
1. Han Chinese are 91% of the population while Russians were only 50% of Soviet.
2. China has a growing economy, while Soviet had a stagnant economy during its last years.
3. The regions that you are asking for independence are remotely populated, while the regions that separated from USSR was densely populated. Tibet gaining independence will be like Siberia gaining independence - just not going to happen given the population difference (3 million Tibetans asking for 1/4th the landmass vs 1.3 billion Han).

China is not USSR, and just because USSR did A, B and C does not mean China will necessarily do A, B, and C. History just doesn't work that way. Of course, nothing is certain, it is hard to predict the next 20 years, but in the next foreseeable 5 years, China won't collapse.

Also, I don't think China is anymore likely of collapsing than Turkey or India. They both have similar ethnic issues.

 

[atatwolf]

Soviet Union collapse was indeed out of the blue. They just went along with the whole anti communist wave in eastern Europe after 1989 and let the ethnic tension in USSR get out of hand.

I think disintegration of communist China will be worse than Soviet collapse.

There are key differences between China and Soviet though.
1. Han Chinese are 91% of the population while Russians were only 50% of Soviet.

Nationalism is an European thing. Chinese don't have the same nationalism we know in Europe. Beijing is holding China together with an iron hand for a reason. Think about that. Why do they need an iron hand?

2. China has a growing economy, while Soviet had a stagnant economy during its last years.

China is much poorer country than Russia. If one economic collapse happens Europeans can afford that but if economic collapse happens people will starve in China because it is an extreme poor country. Regions will want to seperate themselves from Beijing to attract investment from Japan or other countries that have vendetta against China.

Anyway, I can't continue refuting your bullshit arguments. You clearly don't have an understanding of economy, geopolitics and are looking at it from a bias view.

 

[IsaacNewton]

International markets already decided which countries are going to follow up China. China is becoming a very old country. 40 years on average per capita. China can't keep this cheap labor economy going on forever and it doesn't have the chance to change their business model either because of big portions of Chinese society who are living in utter poverty. China's destiny is inevitable.

There is no reason to believe China's economy can't adjust because they have a large population of poor people, the logical connection is simply not there. Remember, Europe was once also filled with poverty, and now very rich.

It is kind of like those arguments made in 2007 about how Chinese are too poor to afford high speed rail tickets, and it was a bad business investment. It turns out that the high speed rail was very successful 7 years later that even Turkey is buying them from China.

 

[Armstrong]

@atatwolf - Would you take kindly if someone opens a thread about an Independent Kurdistan carved out of Turkiye ?

I would think not; so please stop this !

Xinjiang is an internationally recognized part of China & will remain so !

Kurdish areas of Turkiye are internationally recognized parts of Turkiye & will remain so !

Let us respect each other's Sovereignty & not interfere in the Internal Affairs of either China or Turkiye or any other country !

@Jungibaaz @Kaan @Aeronaut - Please close this thread !

 

[atatwolf]

@atatwolf - Would you take kindly if someone opens a thread about an Independent Kurdistan carved out of Turkiye ?

This is not about independence. It is about supporting the rights of Uighur on their own freaking land. Also their human rights are being violated. If you think Kurdish people's rights are being violated open a thread about it.But don't come here and insult us about it by bringing it up here.

@atatwolf

@Jungibaaz @Kaan @Aeronaut - Please close this thread !

Why do you want to close it? Is it so much to ask to ask your Chinese "allies" to respect the human rigths of Uighur and Tibetans?It seems even bringing it up is not tolerated by you.

There is no reason to believe China's economy can't adjust because they have a large population of poor people, the logical connection is simply not there. Remember, Europe was once also filled with poverty, and now very rich.

Are you serious? By the way are you Chinese or what? Because you seem so out of touch. Europe's population is way more smaller than China's population. China can't afford an economic freeze. Their economic model is not based on that and because of their huge % of poor people they can't afford to switch from their economic model. This is bull spread by certain Chinese members here but there is no foundation for this.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Anyway, I can't continue refuting your bullshit arguments. You clearly don't have an understanding of economy, geopolitics and are looking at it from a bias view.

Whatever you say buddy, but aren't you also unnecessarily biased against China? Reading some of your past post, it seems like you have an unnatural hatred for China/Chinese in general.

 

[-SINAN-]

@atatwolf - Would you take kindly if someone opens a thread about an Independent Kurdistan carved out of Turkiye ?
I would think not; so please stop this !
Xinjiang is an internationally recognized part of China & will remain so !
Kurdish areas of Turkiye are internationally recognized parts of Turkiye & will remain so !
Let us respect each other's Sovereignty & not interfere in the Internal Affairs of either China or Turkiye or any other country !

Our solidarity will our Uyghur Kin will go on. We don't care about who or which country says about Uyghurs we defend the rights of Uyghurs....... i'm not very knowledgeable on the East Turkestan issue....will gain more knowledge.

 

[atatwolf]

Our solidarity will our Uyghur Kin will go on. We don't care about who or which country says about Uyghurs we defend the rights of Uyghurs....... i'm not very knowledgeable on the East Turkestan issue....will gain more knowledge.

It seems even expressing support for Uighur as a people is not even tolerated by some. Saying we support Uighur doesn't mean we support terrorism. We support the human rights of Uighur people as humans. It is very hard for me to understand why our so-called muslim brothers are so hostile towards supporting human rights.

 

[-SINAN-]

It seems even expressing support for Uighur as a people is not even tolerated by some. Saying we support Uighur doesn't mean we support terrorism. We support the human rights of Uighur people as humans. It is very hard for me to understand why our so-called muslim brothers are so hostile towards supporting human rights.

Most true...

Some people can't diffrentiate support for Uyghurs from support for Terrorists.

Because some of the racist people sees the whole nation as terrorists... to hell with them i say.