U.S. VP: Our allies created and fund ISIS

[MoshteAhani]

OK folks please do not spread hatred and obfuscation. Discuss, agree, or disagree - whatever you do, it is possible to do so in a civil manner.

BTW, I find it interesting that Shah of Iran is being remembered as some sort of a rational & benevolent person. How people forget so easily? His atrocities are only recent history.

I must say that the current Iranian political system has promoted sectarianism in the region and this has hurt not only countries in Iran's neighborhood, but also Iran itself. Shah would not have used sectarianism, but he was a megalomaniac nonetheless. He despised Arabs and thought of turning Iran into a regional hegemonic power. His staying in power would have presented a different set of problems.

If one must think about alternative history, it is far better to think about what it might have been like if CIA had not engineered the removal of Mossadeq from Prime-Ministership in Iran. This was the key event that bred anti-Americanism in Iran.

I am sorry but what you are saying is completely propaganda spreaded by the pro Zionist media.

Iran has never ever promoted sectarianism, that word is not even fully understood within Iran. Our policy in the region is to promote our interests and yes that includes protecting Shias from barbaric Wahabi suicide bombings and beheadings.

We are on the right side of history and the world knows it too except ISIS and its supporters.

 

[al-Hasani]

I cannot speak for the American people but I can for myself and I think that American policy in the ME has been tragically misguided since our ill-advised invasion of Iraq in 2003. Saddam Hussein may have been a pathological S.O.B., but the situation in Iraq has only become worse since our toppling of him. Iraq has far worse human rights abuses, deaths, torture, lawlessness than it did under Saddam. We Americans only succeeded in unleashing centuries of sectarian and religious strife that the Baath Party had kept a lid on. America certainly is culpable in the eventual creation of ISIS/IS, but of course, in the end, it *is* the Iraqi people and the government *they* elected, that must take charge of the situation. That is not meant as an excuse for my country's actions, just a statement of the reality on the ground there.

We then compounded that problem by our fundamentally misreading the so called, "Arab Spring". In country after country, we averted our eyes to it's true nature, (and by that I mean the takeover, in country after country, of that movement by Islamic extremists.), until it was too late. It did not hit home, (including with me. ), until Egypt. Maybe it was time for Mubarak to go due to his age, but he was a stalwart ally of America and deserved a better fate. I breathed, (and you can bet that President Obama did as well!), a huge sigh of relief when the Egyptian armed forces removed the Muslim Brotherhood from power and Gen. al-Sisi took over. In Libya, while I had no good feelings for Gaddafi, (I cannot forget his mass murder of Americans in PanAm 103.), we again, misread events and tragically, even our own ambassador was killed as a result of that. In Syria, we Americans were not responsible for the uprisings there, as their genesis was the result of Bashar al-Assad's attempts at liberalizing the Syrian political system. His father was a much more shrewd leader than that and understood how dangerous that would be. That being said, while I understand that some Sunnis may resent the Assad family’s dominance in Syria, for me, Assad is most definitely preferable to the FSA. Assad's Baath government, (while Alawis may be closest to Bashar), is still far more secular and multi religious, than what would follow his departure.

As a disclaimer; I have evolved in my thinking about some of these cases as like many Americans, (mea culpa, mea culpa!). I was once hopeful that western-style democracy would one day take hold in the Middle East, but that is going to only happen when the people of that region establish it for themselves, and not have it forced on them. America needs to back up our historic allies in the region, mend relations with countries that we have often been at odds with, (Like Syria, Lybia, etc. ), and listen more and talk and do less. I am absolutely opposed to any insertion of major American ground forces in the region, and in any action, we need to work through organizations like the Arab League and the Cooperation Council for the Arab Gulf States.

Iraq was a failure indeed (sorry for saying this) but Saddam Hussein needed to be removed at the other hand. It's much harder to take such decisions than we give credit for. I mean at one point you have exile Iraqis, human rights watches, people in the West etc. complaining about how come an dictator like Saddam can rule a country in the middle of the ME in such a way on the other hand the unknown is feared. The Iraq we know today is the result of a lot of issues that have been building up for decades and is a result of poor leaders, lack of unity, sectarianism, meddling, invasions, sanctions etc. The greatest shame once again is that all this targets innocents while the decision makers are not suffering in either Iraq or the US or elsewhere. At most from guilt.

Actually FSA as a whole are not Islamists or "radicals" mate. They are ordinary Syrians. Initially most of the FSA was made up by defected soldiers from the Syrian Army.

I have always been saying that. You cannot force a system upon people when they are not ready. Do dictatorship's work in most of the non-Western countries that were forced upon people? Well, you got a long list clearly proving that to not be the case. I agree. The US would commit a big mistake if it ventured into another long conflict. The locals must do the hard work. At most with the assistance of the US. This way they can become more independent as well.

Thank you for letting your views be known mate and I hope that everything is well.

Please update this thread below if you want to. Curious to hear what you have had in store since the last time we talked.

Falconry in KSA and the Arab world

Take care mate and always a pleasure speaking with you.

Asad is not an answer for the future of the country
but sadly this country have been so much destroyed and the groups there so much untrustable .. i wonder for Syrians

Yet some people miraculously think that removing one of them is going to work while letting the other walk out for free. That's obviously not going to work. The worst thing that the international community could have done WAS unfortunately done. Staying silent and doing nothing other than letting countries arm the various fractions. Instead there should have been a no-fly zone and a joint coalition bombing both sides initially and then the locals (FSA) should have done the remaining work - the ground work. But now you have ISIS, a stronger Al-Assad regime etc. All of that should not have been tolerated to start with. Now I don't see a peaceful Syria. In fact I see it as an exact copy of Iraq that has struggled for 10 years now since 2003 (also before obviously) and there is no end in sight of the conflict.

Quite possible both Iraq and Syria will be divided into new entities as well.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Iraq was a failure indeed (sorry for saying this) but Saddam Hussein needed to be removed at the other hand. It's much harder to take such decisions than we give credit for. I mean at one point you have exile Iraqis, human rights watches, people in the West etc. complaining about how come an dictator like Saddam can rule a country in the middle of the ME in such a way on the other hand the unknown is feared. The Iraq we know today is the result of a lot of issues that have been building up for decades and is a result of poor leaders, lack of unity, sectarianism, meddling, invasions, sanctions etc. The greatest shame once again is that all this targets innocents while the decision makers are not suffering in either Iraq or the US or elsewhere. At most from guilt.

We Americans made idiotic and tragic errors in the management of post-Saddam Iraq. Most of those were the responsibility of our proconsul, Paul Bremer, who was utterly unqualified for the job, but of course, the ultimate blame was President Bush's. Director Bremer disbanded the Iraqi Army, which became the nucleus of the insurgency, and he de-Baathified the state and helped to push Sunnis out of power. Saddam was most definitely a regional menace and I certainly, in the abstract, wished to see him go but I would have been happy had we kept the Baath Party as a viable political force.

Actually FSA as a whole are not Islamists or "radicals" mate. They are ordinary Syrians. Initially most of the FSA was made up by defected soldiers from the Syrian Army.

That may be, just as it may have been in Libya’s National Liberation Army, but the problem is that within those forces, extremists manage to take over significant elements which keep winning out. It's understandable. Regular people who may have joined the NLA and fought Gaddafi, put their guns down and went home once he was dead. Not so the extremists. And just as in Syria, events like in the link below, have soured me on the FSA...

U.S. Backed Syrian Rebels Massacre Christian Village - Salem-News.Com

Thank you for letting your views be known mate and I hope that everything is well.

Please update this thread below if you want to. Curious to hear what you have had in store since the last time we talked.

Falconry in KSA and the Arab world

Take care mate and always a pleasure speaking with you.

And you as well! I did get a new bird for this hunting season. Wa Alaikum assalaam!

 

[Syrian Lion]

VP Biden Apologizes for Telling Truth About Turkey, Saudi and ISIS - The Daily Beast

 

[Hyperion]

Please add the following source from CNN:

Joe Biden apologizes to Turkey. UAE - CNN.com

Wannabe Arab Mr. Erdogan and his half breed Arab allies. Shame on each and everyone of them. Retards and their myopic worldview and short sighted strategy. Small boys trying to play big-boy games and creating problems of global / epic proportions.

Biden blames US allies in Middle East for rise of ISIS
​

US Vice-President Joe Biden has accused America’s key allies in the Middle East of allowing the rise of the Islamic State (IS), saying they supported extremists with money and weapons in their eagerness to oust the Assad regime in Syria.

America’s “biggest problem” in Syria is its regional allies, Biden told students at the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum at the Institute of Politics at Harvard University on Thursday.

“Our allies in the region were our largest problem in Syria,” he said, explaining that Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the UAE were “so determined to take down Assad,” that in a sense they started a “proxy Sunni-Shia war” by pouring “hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of tons of weapons” towards anyone who would fight against Assad.

“And we could not convince our colleagues to stop supplying them,” said Biden, thus disassociating the US from unleashing the civil war in Syria.

“The outcome of such a policy now is more visible,” he said, as it turned out they supplied extremists from Al-Nusra Front and Al-Qaeda.

All of a sudden the regional powers that sponsored anti-Assad rebels awakened to the dawn of a major international security threat in the face of ISIS – now called Islamic State. After being essentially thrown out of Iraq it found open space and territory in eastern Syria and established close ties with the Al-Nusra Front which the US had earlier declared a terrorist group.

Now Washington needs a coalition of Sunni states to fight the Islamic State because “America can't once again go in to Muslim nation and be the aggressor, it has to be led by Sunnis, to attack a Sunni organization [the IS],” Biden said, acknowledging that it is for the first time that the US uses a geopolitical strategy.

“Even if we wanted it to be, it cannot be our fight alone,” Biden said. “This cannot be turned into a US ground war against another Arab nation in the Middle East.”

“But of what I’m more astonished is of his apparent amnesia about what America and Britain were trying to ferment in Syria only a year ago. They were not only putting staff intelligence personnel on the ground, and providing logistical support to the rebels in Syria; they were spearheading the campaign to try to oust Assad,” former MI5 agent Annie Machon told RT.

She added that “Perhaps, the Vice President is finally learning some lessons from history. It does not matter who you think your friends are going to be in the region. Very often they will be taken over or subsumed into a more radical group.”

Biden blames US allies in Middle East for rise of ISIS — RT News

___________________________________________________________________________________​

US Vice-President Joe Biden has accused America’s key allies in the Middle East of allowing the rise of the Islamic State (IS aka ISIL or ISIS), saying they supported extremists with money and weapons in their eagerness to topple Assad in Syria.

America’s “biggest problem” in Syria is its regional allies, Biden told students at the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum at the Institute of Politics at Harvard University on Thursday.

“Our allies in the region were our largest problem in Syria,” he said, explaining that Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the UAE were “so determined to take down Assad,” that in a sense they started a “proxy Sunni-Shia war” by pouring “hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of tons of weapons” towards anyone who would fight against Assad.

“And we could not convince our colleagues to stop supplying them,” said Biden, thus dissociating the US from unleashing the civil war in Syria.

“The outcome of such a policy now is more visible,” he said, as it turned out they supplied extremists from Al-Nusra Front and Al-Qaeda.
​

_________________________________________________________________________________​

Also
US General Dempsey: Our Arab Allies Funded ISIS

 

[al-Hasani]

We Americans made idiotic and tragic errors in the management of post-Saddam Iraq. Most of those were the responsibility of our proconsul, Paul Bremer, who was utterly unqualified for the job, but of course, the ultimate blame was President Bush's. Director Bremer disbanded the Iraqi Army, which became the nucleus of the insurgency, and he de-Baathified the state and helped to push Sunnis out of power. Saddam was most definitely a regional menace and I certainly, in the abstract, wished to see him go but I would have been happy had we kept the Baath Party as a viable political force.


That may be, just as it may have been in Libya’s National Liberation Army, but the problem is that within those forces, extremists manage to take over significant elements which keep winning out. It's understandable. Regular people who may have joined the NLA and fought Gaddafi, put their guns down and went home once he was dead. Not so the extremists. And just as in Syria, events like in the link below, have soured me on the FSA...

U.S. Backed Syrian Rebels Massacre Christian Village - Salem-News.Com



And you as well! I did get a new bird for this hunting season. Wa Alaikum assalaam!

Sorry for the late reply. Got caught up in too many discussions today and could not keep up with my mentions etc.

This is a very good documentary about those ill decisions mate.

I agree. The Ba'ath Party should have stayed. Nothing wrong with Baathism. Other than the leaders in both Syria and Iraq not being up for the job.

Yes, there is always a risk of infiltration and radicalization in conflicts that drag on for such long but they are still the best suited option. Syria will improve though. It will be a hard and difficult process but they will.

Man, please update us in that thread. Awesome catch there!

@Hyperion

Why are you such an anti-Arab, LOL? There are almost 500 million of us (Arab migrants in South America, North America, Europe, South East Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa etc. included) out there. Less than 0,0001% are ISIS. ISIS has dozens of Pashtun members too.

Erdogans wife is an Turkish Arab. Maybe she is pulling the strings? Behind every powerful man there is powerful woman they say. Or maybe she wants those Najdi sheep in Syria.

 

[Hyperion]

Basically I don't like AKP....... that's why I'm on a mission to troll!

Erdogans wife is an Turkish Arab. Maybe she is pulling the strings. Or maybe she wants those Najdi sheep in Syria.

 

[al-Hasani]

Basically I don't like AKP....... that's why I'm on a mission to troll!

Not sure if you know about Turkey's history with the Al-Assad family, the Kurdish angle of the conflict, rivalry with Iran or just the fact that it was morally the right thing to support the LEGITIMATE Syrian opposition. The reason for ISIS emerging as such a powerful force is partially something that you should thank Al-Assad for. You can't expect Turkey to remain neutral when its backyard is on fire and Kurds are rioting in Iraq and Syria.

@Sinan @xenon54 @Alienoz_TR

If just Al-Assad did not mass-murderer his population nobody would have bothered Syria.

That picture is just 5 year old. During the inauguration of KAUST. How quickly it all changes:

 

[Syrian Lion]

Not sure if you know about Turkey's history with the Al-Assad family, the Kurdish angle of the conflict, rivalry with Iran or just the fact that it was morally the right thing to support the LEGITIMATE Syrian opposition. The reason for ISIS emerging as such a powerful force is partially something that you should thank Al-Assad for. You can't expect Turkey to remain neutral when its backyard is on fire and Kurds are rioting in Iraq and Syria.

@Sinan @xenon54 @Alienoz_TR

If just Al-Assad did not mass-murderer his population nobody would have bothered Syria.

That picture is just 5 year old. During the inauguration of KAUST. How quickly it all changes:

View attachment 112542

the only murders in the Syrian conflict are the west and their puppets, they created all this mess for their sectarian nature... don't play dumb, Syria refused GCC and the west demands to open up Syria so the western puppets can send free gas to Europe... that is one of the many reasons why the west and their puppets are trying to kill Syrians and destroy the country...

you think if Alasad was killing Syrians on daily basis Syrians would allowed him to stay in office for one more minute... only idiots believe that... if Syrians wanted Alasad gone he would have been gone long time ago...

the west and their puppets plan of removing Alasad in couple month failed, because of the Syrian people unity... the west Alasad could be gone in 6 month max... however, when their plan A failed, they resorted to Plan B, killing Syrians and blaming the army and starting a war in Syria... that also failed, so they went to Plan C, creating a strong I$I$ and supporting AQ in Syria and chemical weapons attack, which MIT itself admitted it was from F$A terrorists....

anyways, if Syrians wanted Alasad gone he would have been gone long time ago.. and you are naive if you believe that gcc countries want an end to this conflict of want to see Alasad gone, if Alasad gone, then Syria will be the cornerstone for uprisings in wahabistan, it will sweep through Jordan in month, then it will get Saudi "Arabia" easily..

 

[Syrian Lion]

View attachment 112575

^ the best response i can get from alhasni is picture of himself

 

[al-Hasani]

^ the best response i can get from alhasni is picture of himself

Enogh of bullshit. Get some shame.

You can continue to live in your fantasy world in the US.

@WebMaster
Please change Syrian Lion's flag from Syria to USA.

 

[Syrian Lion]

View attachment 112591

View attachment 112592

View attachment 112593

Enogh of bullshit. Get some shame.

You can continue to live in your fantasy world in the US.

@WebMaster
Please change Syrian Lion's flag from Syria to USA.

look who is talking, supporters of terrorists that are killing Syria.... I can also add more pictures for you

 

[raptor22]

If just Al-Assad did not mass-murderer his population nobody would have bothered Syria.

Only Syrian are supposed to shape their future and decide whom should govern them, ISIL is fruits of foreign meddling and interference in Syria.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Only Syrian are supposed to shape their future and decide whom should govern them, ISIL is fruits of foreign meddling and interference in Syria.

I did not say that. Your response here is to another poster's quote.

 

[Syrian Lion]

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...telling-the-truth/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0