U.S. to issue new Iran sanctions, opening shot in get-tough strategy: sources

[Fafnir]

I think that responding with sanctions is a civilized way to put pressure on totalitarian regimes that are basically out of control.

So when can we expect the us to start sanctioning ksa and the gulfies,because certainly without the active support of the ksa and co there would be no sunni wahabist plague that has caused so much havoc across the region and beyond including the west.
I do have to chuckle at your claim of iran being "out of control" but then of course what you really mean is that an iran who is not under the control of the usraelis/nato is by definition "out of [your] control".
As for your claim that sanctions are a "civilized" way to pressure countries,I would remind you of madeline albrights response to a question regarding the hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths due to "civilized" un sanctions,indeed who could ever forget her response:"we think the price is worth it" she said,very civilized indeed,I wonder if the relatives of all those dead iraqis would agree with her civilized assessment.Personally I dont think you could find a more perfect example of the banality of evil than her response.I really hope that one day the us will be subject to these very same sorts of "civilized" treatments that it has inflicted on so many others,tho I have a sneaking suspicion that being on the receiving end it wont find them very civilized at all.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

There goes any attempt to normalise relations.

Not to worry. Sanction or no sanction Iran can depend on India and it's massive investment in Chah Bahar. Which reminds me have the Indian's done anything since we first heard the mantra "Cha Cha Cha Ba Ba Har"?

To my Iranian friends, not long ago I saw threads opened here about how Iran was looking to by aircraft from Boeing and I thought what the hell? You guy's seriously need to work with a country that is most "US resistent" and note I said "US resistent" which is not the same thing as "US proof". Although in another few decades it will end up being 100% "US proof". And that country most emphatically is not India - which has front side given to the American;s and the backside to the Israeli's.

No, that country is China. It was thanks to China that you even got the nuclear deal. In fact even right now the only force really holding back the Us just reneging the nuclear deal is the Chinese. Iran needs to build up a massive economic relationship with China - this will create a strategic need and economic impulse for Chinese to wade in any US/Israeli posturing.

I am friend of Iran . Always have been.

@Chinese-Dragon @Ryan @faithfulguy

 

[AmirPatriot]

Iran would benefit the most from making sure their nuclear weapons are in working order.

I personally have an issue with nuclear weapons, but on a political level that would look extremely bad... make a nuclear deal and then ignore it, then get sanctioned by the entire world like NK (which unlike India and Pakistan is a US enemy).

I think China to provide all the technical supports for Iran's ASBM matters the most of all.

As @VEVAK said we don't need that for the 300 km Persian Gulf missile, but to threaten US carriers in the Indian Ocean it's rumoured we're developing an ASBM based on the solid fueled 2500 km range Sejjil 2. For that we'd need an extensive network of OTH radars (which we already have), UAVs (which we're increasing the range of), and GPS/Spy satellites. The later two are what would be required from China but I am sceptical if it would be provided for 2 reasons:

1. This would require a very high level of cooperation, something which is currently not in place and would take significant operational and political effort to bring about.

2. Imagine if, in a hypothetical war, Iran sinks a US carrier with key Chinese involvement... that would be huge and would solicit a severe US reaction since carriers are not just ordinary ships, they are priceless instruments of US foreign policy. In a war between 2 countries they are fair game, but for a 3rd party (probably) not in active hostilities there would be ramifications which I am not sure China wants to get into.

J-31

It would be welcomed seeing the dilapidated state of the IRIAF, although for now we are looking at the multirole Su-30SM (since it is available earlier. It's unclear if Iran has it's own 5th gen fighter project (@yavar?).

The main questions are

1. How far away is the J-31 from serial production?

2. How long after that before China is willing to export it, and to Iran (Pakistan would probably be the first recipient).

3. Is it more balanced towards multirole or air superiority? (Iran wants the Su-30SM for multirole)

4. Is China willing to offer license production? (I suspect not)

HQ-9B

Iran's Bavar-373 is in a good place I think and at least one of it's radars is an AESA. Though I think Tech Transfer of mass production of GaN AESAs would be appreciated since Iran's own capability in this regard is unknown.

soft loan

?

Not to worry. Sanction or no sanction Iran can depend on India and it's massive investment in Chah Bahar.

China has already invested in Gwadar, I struggle to find a reason why they would invest in Chabahar. And Iran has repeatedly said it welcome investment in Chabahar to no avail.

Iran's major engagement with China is the New Silk Road and possibly CPEC/SCO.

Boeing

I don't think it will go much further than that. Airliners are a matter of passenger safety, plus they grant some influence in the US via the huge jobs and the Boeing lobby. Besides, China is not currently near serial production of any of it's projects, and the C919 is designed to compete with the A320/737 and we still need to have long range widebodies like the A330/A350/777.

 

[graphican]

A suggestion to Americans, do not repeat failed strategies.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

India has already invested in Gwadar,

What? Few bricks and a signboard

I struggle to find a reason why they would invest in Chabahar.

I agree. For a start India is becoming the biggest Israeli 'buddy' in the region and getting closer to US. Why would it risk displeasure of Israel or USA. Indian's take extreme thrill out of thinking they are tight with Israel and indeed milch the 'victim card'. You know the "you suffer Islamic terrorism (Palestine) and we suffer Islamic terrorism (Kashmir).

I mention this because despite Iran being number one on the Israeli hate list with America also following suit as evidenced by the visa ban and Trump posturing many Pakistani's actually regard Iran as a stooge of Israel. They see Israel/India/USA as in a closet alliance and cite Indian involvement in Chah Bahar and few Indian undercover operatives caught in Balochistan as 'evidence'.

 

[hussain0216]

What? Few bricks and a signboard

I agree. For a start India is becoming the biggest Israeli 'buddy' in the region and getting closer to US. Why would it risk displeasure of Israel or USA. Indian's take extreme thrill out of thinking they are tight with Israel and indeed milch the 'victim card'. You know the "you suffer Islamic terrorism (Palestine) and we suffer Islamic terrorism (Kashmir).

I mention this because despite Iran being number one on the Israeli hate list with America also following suit as evidenced by the visa ban and Trump posturing many Pakistani's actually regard Iran as a stooge of Israel. They see Israel/India/USA as in a closet alliance and cite Indian involvement in Chah Bahar and few Indian undercover operatives caught in Balochistan as 'evidence'.

Between Russia and China, Iran has a way out of the trap being set

some sort of common ground can be found between a number of Asian powers from China to Russia, to Pakistan to Iran to even Turkey

i wish the GCC wouldn't be so short sighted but you can't help some people

I have long mentioned NO muslim state should ever trust india.
The indians have this historic and deepseated psychological hangup with emanating from 1000 years of Muslim rule.

Dont take my word for it or the PDF indians, simply peruse indian websites and news sites and defence sites for the basic emnity towards muslims

It matters not for Pakistan we hate them anyway and have built up a arsenal of weapons to wipe them clean off this world

but everyone from iran to arabs to any other muslim state should we aware and weary


This is not to say on a human to human level everything is bright and rosy between eg Iranians and Chinese but that would be a two way process, Muslim ourselves have racism and bigotry (more so in many cases)


but hooking up to a rising China has many benefits

 

[AmirPatriot]

What? Few bricks and a signboa

Sorry, I meant China. I guess my mistake compromises much of your post...

But I think, geopolitically, India probably invested in Chabahar so they could get easy trade access to Afghanistan... Iran will take it to be honest, seeing as it is a major port that could do well for trade and could be a future base for larger Iranian warships.

And I don't think Iran needs to worry about Israel/India relations. For one we try not to interfere in other country's internal affairs, but in the likely event that India tries something, we are their biggest source of oil and that resource wields considerable influence in India's economy.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I have long mentioned NO muslim state should ever trust india.

Bravo brother. I could not agree with you more. If you follow my posts I don't cut 0% slack to Indian's. There are some nice Indian members here but now I just don't bother with any. India is a enemy period and allowing to get 'softened' because few saying good things is creating confusion in your mind. Just like in real life one of the most imporetant things a country should have is clear mind of it's goals and to work incessantly on that. That includes knowing who your friends are, who your transient partners are, those are neutral and those who are your enemies. I know explicitly that Pakistan has only one enemy and that is India. USA and Israel come in either tansient or neutral. And yes I have been on Western forums and they have members from all over - Americans, Israelis even. But the moment I say something anything positive about Pakistan I recieve hate filled posts from every direction like tsuanami wave - all without exception are from Indians. The hate is remarkable and scary because of it's consistency. The shows the true colour of this nation of unmitigated ugliness and untouchables. The expletives they use for Pakistan is amazing.

The hatred from American's or even Israeli's is minimal by comparison - indeed the Indian's spend all their effort trying to 'fire' up the Westerners by using the Islamic terrorism card etc You will even fvckin see this in UK. Indian's have joined BNP and with the far right to stir up the 'Muslim pedo, Muslim terrorists, Muslim sharia' propaganda. I can always 'feel' the angle from exteme right groups. If it is just ranting against Muslims that mostly is all white far right. If it is ranting with Arab angle then it has Jewish stings behind it. If it has a anti Pakistani angle then you bet your life itis a Hindu untouchable behind it.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

As @VEVAK said we don't need that for the 300 km Persian Gulf missile, but to threaten US carriers in the Indian Ocean it's rumoured we're developing an ASBM based on the solid fueled 2500 km range Sejjil 2. For that we'd need an extensive network of OTH radars (which we already have), UAVs (which we're increasing the range of), and GPS/Spy satellites. The later two are what would be required from China but I am sceptical if it would be provided for 2 reasons:

1. This would require a very high level of cooperation, something which is currently not in place and would take significant operational and political effort to bring about.

2. Imagine if, in a hypothetical war, Iran sinks a US carrier with key Chinese involvement... that would be huge and would solicit a severe US reaction since carriers are not just ordinary ships, they are priceless instruments of US foreign policy. In a war between 2 countries they are fair game, but for a 3rd party (probably) not in active hostilities there would be ramifications which I am not sure China wants to get into.



It would be welcomed seeing the dilapidated state of the IRIAF, although for now we are looking at the multirole Su-30SM (since it is available earlier. It's unclear if Iran has it's own 5th gen fighter project (@yavar?).

The main questions are

1. How far away is the J-31 from serial production?

2. How long after that before China is willing to export it, and to Iran (Pakistan would probably be the first recipient).

3. Is it more balanced towards multirole or air superiority? (Iran wants the Su-30SM for multirole)

4. Is China willing to offer license production? (I suspect not)



Iran's Bavar-373 is in a good place I think and at least one of it's radars is an AESA. Though I think Tech Transfer of mass production of GaN AESAs would be appreciated since Iran's own capability in this regard is unknown.

Don't worry too much, China was also more involved in the Vietnam War than the USSR. Guess the US did nothing despite suffered with heavy casualty. Today's China is no pushover, and you shouldn't underestimate China's determination to defend its one belt one road project. The US mostly wants to obstruct it by attacking on Iran.

The J-31 2.0 has successfully conducted its maiden flight in last year, and it is designated to be exported as an air superiority 5th gen aircraft. And the technology is open for every buyers.

So you want the Type 346A radar used by the Type 052D?

 

[VEVAK]

In order to keep your coast safe from the US carrier battlegroups, you need to at least push them away beyond 1000 km. At this moment, China can definitely offer a lot of help in order to improve your tracking distance and accuracy.

As for the J-31 and HQ-9B, China can usually provide the soft loan. Also don't forget the CH-5, a super predatory drone that can remain in the airspace for 60 hours without refueling.

In terms of UAV's I can tell you right now that Iran doesn't get too infatuated with things they can already or potentially build with a little funding
Foreign UAV's in terms of the platform are not of interest to Iran, the sensor are, GPS, SATCOM, a tech transfer for a better engine yes but the platforms Iran can build its self.

Purchasing of the J-31 & or J-20 would be acceptable only if the engines are Chinese & HQ-9B will most defiantly be welcomed if all components are Chinese but you have to understand that Iran is bent on producing everything it can at home when it comes to the military so even with a 5th gen fighter Iran is going to want access to the weapons system software so they can design their own weapons around it!

For ASBM I believe anything beyond 700km Iran would need extensive Chinese help it terms of sensors & sat's and I would refer back to what AmirPatriot said a carrier killer beyond 700km would get the Americans digging into how & that's an offensive weapon that could start WW3

Aircraft are a different story, China could make the argument that their needs to be a counter balance to US 5th Generation fighter and the U.S. is supplying Japan & South Korea with 5th gen fighters & is assisting them in building their own 5th gen fighters.
US is also supplying Australia & Israel with 5th Gen fighters & deploying it's own in every major shipping rout in the world & this is a response to the U.S. aggressive policy of weapons proliferation.

Also, US is confident in it's Air Superiority and will not see Chinese 5th gen fighters in Iran as big a threat to it's own forces as a Carrier Killer whos only target would be U.S. carriers!
In fact they will likely use that as an opportunity to sell more aircrafts to the Arabs! So they will nag, scream & threaten but at the end of the day they wont do anything substantial about it.
Also, US annalists will conclude that if Iran doesn't spend that money on it's Air Force they will just build more missiles that are getting more accurate at greater distances & having to pay for a larger Air Force will reduce funding in R&D & mass production of more deadly Iranian missiles and an increase in the mass production of various solid fuel missiles gives Iran instant retaliatory capabilities with smaller and stealthier launch sites that require less personal. Aircraft's unlike Missiles aren't something Iran can hid or launch from anywhere & they would be a far easier target for the U.S. than missiles deep under ground.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

In terms of UAV's I can tell you right now that Iran doesn't get too infatuated with things they can already or potentially build with a little funding
Foreign UAV's in terms of the platform are not of interest to Iran, the sensor are, GPS, SATCOM, a tech transfer for a better engine yes but the platforms Iran can build its self.

Purchasing of the J-31 & or J-20 would be acceptable only if the engines are Chinese & HQ-9B will most defiantly be welcomed if all components are Chinese but you have to understand that Iran is bent on producing everything it can at home when it comes to the military so even with a 5th gen fighter Iran is going to want access to the weapons system software so they can design their own weapons around it!

For ASBM I believe anything beyond 700km Iran would need extensive Chinese help it terms of sensors & sat's and I would refer back to what AmirPatriot said a carrier killer beyond 700km would get the Americans digging into how & that's an offensive weapon that could start WW3

Aircraft are a different story, China could make the argument that their needs to be a counter balance to US 5th Generation fighter and the U.S. is supplying Japan & South Korea with 5th gen fighters & is assisting them in building their own 5th gen fighters.
US is also supplying Australia & Israel with 5th Gen fighters & deploying it's own in every major shipping rout in the world & this is a response to the U.S. aggressive policy of weapons proliferation.

Also, US is confident in it's Air Superiority and will not see Chinese 5th gen fighters in Iran as big a threat to it's own forces as a Carrier Killer whos only target would be U.S. carriers!
In fact they will likely use that as an opportunity to sell more aircrafts to the Arabs! So they will nag, scream & threaten but at the end of the day they wont do anything substantial about it.
Also, US annalists will conclude that if Iran doesn't spend that money on it's Air Force they will just build more missiles that are getting more accurate at greater distances & having to pay for a larger Air Force will reduce funding in R&D & mass production of more deadly Iranian missiles and an increase in the mass production of various solid fuel missiles gives Iran instant retaliatory capabilities with smaller and stealthier launch sites that require less personal. Aircraft's unlike Missiles aren't something Iran can hid or launch from anywhere & they would be a far easier target for the U.S. than missiles deep under ground.

So you want China to transfer of the TOT of the CH-5, I don't think this should be a problem as most Chinese weapons are bundled with the TOT.

All Chinese 5th gen fighters are using the Chinese domestic components including the engine, you shouldn't worry too much about it.

So you are afraid to touch a US supercarrier? Even they attack you, you wouldn't even fight back?

The J-31 can still attack those 4th gen aircrafts with its BVR missiles, and the US has to put its limited 5th gen aircrafts on the table.

 

[VEVAK]

Don't worry too much, China was also more involved in the Vietnam War than the USSR. Guess the US did nothing despite suffered with heavy casualty. Today's China is no pushover, and you shouldn't underestimate China's determination to defend its one belt one road project. The US mostly wants to obstruct it by attacking on Iran.

The J-31 2.0 has successfully conducted its maiden flight in last year, and it is designated to be exported as an air superiority 5th gen aircraft. And the technology is open for every buyers.

So you want the Type 346A radar used by the Type 052D?

The point is to be prevent a war from ever taking place a defense treaty with China & Iran flying Chinese 5th Gen fighters shows a posture the U.S. can't ignore and is more likely to deter a conflict
Iran secretly having Chinese carrier killers & spending more on missiles may give Iran more tactical capability in terms of hitting U.S. forces in the region but it's deterrent effect is also less.
For a Carrier Killer and precision guided ballistic missiles to have a deterrent effect Iran 1st has to show them off & once you do Chinese involvement will become clear & that is a far more conformational tone.

Deterrence is far better than conflict there is nothing to be gained in starting WW3 specially when the U.S. is on the path of bankrupting it's self & if they don't pull back from this constant aggressive posture they will go bankrupt

 

[AmirPatriot]

Don't worry too much, China was also more involved in the Vietnam War than the USSR. Guess the US did nothing despite suffered with heavy casualty.

Well reasoned. And they lost a hell of a lot more in Vietnam than they would in an aircraft carrier or two (or 3, or 4... )

The J-31 2.0 has successfully conducted its maiden flight in last year, and it is designated to be exported as an air superiority 5th gen aircraft. And the technology is open for every buyers.

Sounds good.

So you want the Type 346A radar used by the Type 052D?

Not necessarily... We have AESA technology. Below on the right is the Najm 802 radar which is thought to be an AESA in the Iranian defence community.

I think next step is the production techniques and production technology. China likely has more efficient means to produce AESA tech than Iran, and so can make it cheaper and on a larger scale.

So you are afraid to touch a US supercarrier?

On the contrary, our entire Navy is designed specifically to take one out

 

[yavar]

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The point is to be prevent a war from ever taking place a defense treaty with China & Iran flying Chinese 5th Gen fighters shows a posture the U.S. can't ignore and is more likely to deter a conflict
Iran secretly having Chinese carrier killers & spending more on missiles may give Iran more tactical capability in terms of hitting U.S. forces in the region but it's deterrent effect is also less.
For a Carrier Killer and precision guided ballistic missiles to have a deterrent effect Iran 1st has to show them off & once you do Chinese involvement will become clear & that is a far more conformational tone.

Deterrence is far better than conflict there is nothing to be gained in starting WW3 specially when the U.S. is on the path of bankrupting it's self & if they don't pull back from this constant aggressive posture they will go bankrupt

Well, if they really want to fight, there is nothing you can stop them.

So better to get prepared to fight instead of worrying this and that.