U.S. offers help to South East Asia, most to Vietnam, to patrol seas

[BoQ77]

For anyone who is not clear on the situation.

If Vietnam accepted to get fund anyway from US under their own condition and term, we did not need to wait for so long. Maybe happen during 90 decade.

Everyone could think that when Leon Panetter visited Cam Ranh, US could get the naval base if they want, but No !!! Vietnam still keep our own way to use the Bay for civil and military purpose, without losing the control of it to any super power.

Vietnam always give priority to our independence, not any funding.
----------
That's why there'll not much of change in politic for Vietnam after getting fund from US.
In the joint-press, both side agreed not to let the human right issue affect to the cooperation, TPP process ...

In fact, Vietnam get US funding for training our Coast Guard force since 2008. No one know huh ??

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Proportional Representation have its own problems. The most obvious is the threshold percentage that must be set that will allow a political party representation in government. Too high a threshold and you shut out much if not most of the population. Too low a threshold and you will end up with a government prone to paralysis due to the diversity of political biases in government with each demanding its own way.

You still have not present a credible argument as to why FPTP somehow prevents Americans from fully expressing our 'political aspirations'.

Remember the Government Shutdown in your country? Doesn't took a multiple parties to paralyze the government. More parties means more ideas, more parties means the people will have greater access to the political system & will have more stake in them, more parties means more responsive government. That's why the PR is better. The FPTP is ancient & obsolete form of system.

How many political party does the US have? 2 there you have it, there maybe a few straggler, but there's only 2 legitimate party in Congress.

 

[gambit]

Remember the Government Shutdown in your country? Doesn't took a multiple parties to paralyze the government. More parties means more ideas, more parties means the people will have greater access to the political system & will have more stake in them, more parties means more responsive government. That's why the PR is better. The FPTP is ancient & obsolete form of system.

Really...???

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The truth is that PR is a complete con. Remember when we waited days for the formation of a government after the 2010 election? After the 2010 election in The Netherlands, which follows a proportional voting system, there were 10 parties in parliament and it took months of horse-trading and backroom deals to form a new government. You won't hear this from the Greens and deluded associate professors who read the Green Left Weekly.

Even worse, under PR, voters can't know, when they vote, what the future governing coalition will look like. If you hated the Greens dictating Gillard's broken carbon tax promise, PR institutionalises promise-breaking. No promises are certain when you don't know who will join you in government.

If you think the Gillard government's record on sound policy is thin, PR produces even lower-quality policy and politics as odd coalitions end up agreeing on lowest common denominator policies.

The critical flaw of PR is that mainstream views in the electorate are held to ransom by these balance of power parties on the extremes of Left and Right. These small parties end up exerting influence out of proportion to their voting base. In fact, Woldring admits that the purpose of PR is to do away with pesky centrist politics. If you vote for mainstream parties, your vote will often count for less than those of supporters of extremist parties, Left or Right.

How many more examples do you think I can find via keyword search for 'proportional representation paralysis'?

How many political party does the US have? 2 there you have it, there maybe a few straggler, but there's only 2 legitimate party in Congress.

There are no laws that says there can be only two parties in US politics. So the charge of illegitimacy is absurd. I challenge you to show me such a law.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Really...???

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How many more examples do you think I can find via keyword search for 'proportional representation paralysis'?


There are no laws that says there can be only two parties in US politics. So the charge of illegitimacy is absurd. I challenge you to show me such a law.

That's because there's only 9 country that uses the outdated FPTP. While country that uses PR numbers around 90. That example is like saying. Just because more people are killed driving Japanese cars doesn't mean Japanese made cars is a deathtrap.

Haven't I post in earlier comment that's the problem with FPTP. It shut down the Minority Vote in favor of the Majority. The Law is never the problem, the System is! For example, a smaller third party like the green never got any seat even though its established in 1991 while the President's party in this country won most of the seat even though its established in 2001.

Another problem with FPTP is basically a political system that ensures there's only a "Winner & Loser." The Winner gain a seat while the loser lose its seat. In hindsight these pretty much a fucked up system to begin with.

 

[gambit]

That's because there's only 9 country that uses the outdated FPTP. While country that uses PR numbers around 90. That example is like saying. Just because more people are killed driving Japanese cars doesn't mean Japanese made cars is a deathtrap.

Haven't I post in earlier comment that's the problem with FPTP. It shut down the Minority Vote in favor of the Majority. The Law is never the problem, the System is! For example, a smaller third party like the green never got any seat even though its established in 1991 while the President's party in this country won most of the seat even though its established in 2001.

Another problem with FPTP is basically a political system that ensures there's only a "Winner & Loser." The Winner gain a seat while the loser lose its seat. In hindsight these pretty much a fucked up system to begin with.

You argued that PR system cannot produce a deadlocked government. I proved you wrong.

Winner takes all is the first and most natural way of settling contests via voting. People have a natural understanding of that. If there are not enough supporters of your view, you lose. It is no less flawed than PR. So the next question for you is: What is the best threshold, if any, for any political bias to have representation in government? Warning: You will be treading on dangerous grounds.

 

[yue10]

Proportional Representation have its own problems. The most obvious is the threshold percentage that must be set that will allow a political party representation in government. Too high a threshold and you shut out much if not most of the population. Too low a threshold and you will end up with a government prone to paralysis due to the diversity of political biases in government with each demanding its own way.

You still have not present a credible argument as to why FPTP somehow prevents Americans from fully expressing our 'political aspirations'.


Superior mentality...???

You effectively said that Asians are not capable of thinking democratic thoughts and living under the same.

Your arguments reminds of an excellent book...

Can Asians Think? Understanding the Divide Between East and West: Kishore Mahbubani: 9781586420338: Amazon.com: Books

Mahbubani described people like you to a T in his book. Those Asians who are terrified of individualism, easily cowed by popular opinions, eager to please the masses and more eager still to please those in political power.

Congratulations on your 'superior mentality', sheeple...

there you go again with your brainwash mentality now speaking about the individualism, who is eager to please masses? the biggest troll here against Viets here is me, who I tried to please?

individualism is the true source of all evilness in the world, it is greatest tool of capitalist pigs to destabilise Asia and create denegerate and immoral population like in the West, the whiteman always like to make himself look big perpetuate ridiculous idea like self made man like somehow as temporary statistic on Earth that he is special, deserve of 'universal' and 'inalienable' rights and project his BS onto others but people like you love that suff, I am just the peasant mentality my Annam friend understand my place in the world

by all measure of suicide rate, happiness index, IA HDI even that PISA showed VCP as superior ruler of VN went on mass ownage of their SEA counterpart look after the citizen and did good job especially when compared to funny Muslim country as self proclaimed leader of ASEAN

it remind me of the whiteman saying if it ain't broke don't fix it but i guess this is more of your terrorist mentality force democracy on them

since you are like to laugh let me show you my superior mentality, from your nonsense pro democracy and anti VCP agenda I could only form 2 opinion of your former life in VN

1. you were the nguy low lifes fighting for some freedom BS the whiteman pigs putting into your head and you eating it all up like a malnutritoned sheeple, in reality it was nice whorehouse for GI boom boom party who saw and treat your race like less than animals but still your mentality worship them, sensing some humiliation was coming you tried to running away into the arms of your papa but got slapped like bug got slapped by windscreen
hahaha, that you?

bitterly forced to go back and pick up arms when the hero Vietcong in the Chinaman tank rolled through streets of HCMC and bulldozed down gates of Reunification palace your mentality became as terrified baby elephant, suddenly the double humiliation take over, drop your M16 and mysterious and stinky brown stain appear on back of your pants, because of such shame and humiliation you could not dare to show your face as the loser side against superior Vietcong and so you quickly extorted monies from your fellow Annams and ranning away to mainland of big papa’s empire

2. you were the wealthy class feeding on the misery of the your fellow Annam amigos like a true land owning capitalist pig, when the superior and well meaning mentality of the Vietcong just look out for their own people came along you ran like stinking hippos use your monies for bribed your way out of VN, your bitterness at losing your slave owner status is just too obvious

hahaha, which one is correct?

 

[gambit]

there you go again with your brainwash mentality now speaking about the individualism, who is eager to please masses? the biggest troll here against Viets here is me, who I tried to please?

individualism is the true source of all evilness in the world, it is greatest tool of capitalist pigs to destabilise Asia and create denegerate and immoral population like in the West, the whiteman always like to make himself look big perpetuate ridiculous idea like self made man like somehow as temporary statistic on Earth that he is special, deserve of 'universal' and 'inalienable' rights and project his BS onto others but people like you love that suff, I am just the peasant mentality my Annam friend understand my place in the world

Absolutely, buddy...You fight real hard to know your place in the world, to run in place, to expend all that energy but accomplish little or nothing.

Here is an old Time mag article commenting on what Mahbubani said about his fellow Asians in his damning book 'Can Asians Think?'...

It's True.Asians Can't Think - TIME

It's True.Asians Can't Think
By SIN-MING SHAW Monday, May 31, 1999

Yet in the past 100 years, the West's superiority over Asia has widened exponentially over any advantage the East ever enjoyed. No civilization with such a commanding lead, not even classical Greece, has declined more dramatically. The issue is not about economic growth or engineering dexterity; Asia's record in these areas is indisputable. It's about originality of the mind and its resulting influence over how mankind shapes the world.

...must also ask why so many Asian minds flourish only after they have gone to the West.

...they had to leave Asia because the intellectual atmosphere was stifling or because the established hierarchy respected seniority over brains.

It is ingrained in the Asian psyche that correct answers always exist and are to be found in books or from authorities. Teachers dispense truth, parents are always right and political leaders know better. In executive-led societies such as China and Hong Kong, leaders act like philosopher-kings, often uttering unchallenged banalities. Senior officials sometimes resemble the powerful palace eunuchs of past dynasties: imperial, unaccountable, incompetent. Questioning authority, especially in public, is disrespectful, un-Asian, un-Confucian.

The twisted Confucian philosophy passed on by generations has played a damnable role in denting Asian creative thinking. U.S.-trained physicist Woo Chia-wei, president of the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, believes the Confucian stress on order is a major obstacle to creative thinking that has sometimes affected even his own instincts.

...the best bet is Taiwan. Alone among Asian societies it possesses the right combination of institutions that allow talent to blossom. Institutionalized disputes and a respect for opposing viewpoints, publicly aired, are not just about political democracy, they are fundamental to creative thinking.

If Japan, China and the rest of Asia--perhaps even India--ever manage to cast aside mind-numbing communist, Confucian and caste values,...

So you and your fellow Chinese be content in knowing your place in the world, intellectually ossified, and creatively stunted. We in the West, Asians and many other races, have our own problems but we will work through them and will prevail, leaving China crumbs of knowledge to follow, just like the last couple centuries have been and how Mahbubani explained.

 

[yue10]

Absolutely, buddy...You fight real hard to know your place in the world, to run in place, to expend all that energy but accomplish little or nothing.

Here is an old Time mag article commenting on what Mahbubani said about his fellow Asians in his damning book 'Can Asians Think?'...

It's True.Asians Can't Think - TIME


So you and your fellow Chinese be content in knowing your place in the world, intellectually ossified, and creatively stunted. We in the West, Asians and many other races, have our own problems but we will work through them and will prevail, leaving China crumbs of knowledge to follow, just like the last couple centuries have been and how Mahbubani explained.

I really hope you 'Westerner' could find way to rescue your crumbling society destroyed by the capitalist pigs
look, it's the beggining of true Marxist theory come to life

the dude Mahbubani sound like the Indian people, they should not speak for oriental/mongoloid race, here is a heading on Time magazine

It's official, TIME Magazine is a complete joke

 

[gambit]

I really hope you 'Westerner' could find way to rescue your crumbling society destroyed by the capitalist pigs
look, it's the beggining of true Marxist theory come to life

So much for that mythical 'high Chinese IQ'. The 'Occupy' movement is dead. A proverbial flash in the pan.

the dude Mahbubani sound like the Indian people, they should not speak for oriental/mongoloid race,

Mahbubani is from Singapore. Too lazy to do even basic research? But why should his origin matter? Never mind that rhetorical question. Debate any Chinese long enough, and race will come into the discussion.

 

[yue10]

So much for that mythical 'high Chinese IQ'. The 'Occupy' movement is dead. A proverbial flash in the pan.


Mahbubani is from Singapore. Too lazy to do even basic research? But why should his origin matter? Never mind that rhetorical question. Debate any Chinese long enough, and race will come into the discussion.

my Annam friend I am not the Chinese neither claim as high IQ, don't be scared it's just beginning especially with 47 million on foodstamps sooner or later the struggle will reach it's crescendo and poof vamoose the capitalist pigs got turned over by the disenfranchised citizens, sold the dream but realised that it's all a big pile of steaming BS

 

[BoQ77]

Nice picture ...
But did you see any US troop in Vietnam prior to their decision of funding ?
Look at Japan and Korea, Phillipine, .. they offer extending life for US bases in their countries against aggression of China ... even build new base for that ( Phillipines )

But Vietnam, we don't need the existance of US troops in our country, and keep denying the proposal of putting a US base in our Cam Ranh Bay.

US: "Okay, Vietnam, if you could defense yourself, we will not force you to let our troops come, AND for the regional security, please receive our equipments, weapons and make the SCS calm in peace.

Not like Phillipines, they requests very often to receive some old warships.

 

[yue10]

Nice picture ...
But did you see any US troop in Vietnam prior to their decision of funding ?
Look at Japan and Korea, Phillipine, .. they offer extending life for US bases in their countries against aggression of China ... even build new base for that ( Phillipines )

But Vietnam, we don't need the existance of US troops in our country, and keep denying the proposal of putting a US base in our Cam Ranh Bay.

US: "Okay, Vietnam, if you could defense yourself, we will not force you to let our troops come, AND for the regional security, please receive our equipments, weapons and make the SCS calm in peace.

Not like Phillipines, they requests very often to receive some old warships.

yes, Philippine could be said as massive slave mentality after WW2 when Whiteman US could occupied Japan what happened to thats country, yeah, got swot away like insignificant fly and even got nice present as Bell Trade Act enslaved them but now still beg for big papa, if VCP could maintained independence from those whiteman pig is great thing

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

You argued that PR system cannot produce a deadlocked government. I proved you wrong.

Winner takes all is the first and most natural way of settling contests via voting. People have a natural understanding of that. If there are not enough supporters of your view, you lose. It is no less flawed than PR. So the next question for you is: What is the best threshold, if any, for any political bias to have representation in government? Warning: You will be treading on dangerous grounds.

There are other sticks you can used to measure a Government other than Deadlock. Like the most important is whether or not the common man can have a say in their government.

Its becoming a matter of perspective then. Unlike you I live in a country where Politic is more alive than the jungle. So I cannot understand when people want to offer an idea they have to figuratively outrun/outrace a Cheetah just to have a Seat in the Government or forced to gain Nomination from 2 Major party. You are right that PR is flawed, but the FPTP is even more. Do you even realize why most country chose to be PR country? The good things about FPTP is that its less susceptible to Gerrymandering & offer a more "stable" form of government, but in general it will lead to Political Stagnation.

The PR can cause Deadlock that is true, but Deadlock is actually healthy for the Government. It will cause all party in the government to reevaluate themselves. Forcing them to create a Coalition Government, breaking alliances, making compromises & at the of it all. It will create a much more responsive government that are more driven by the Public. That is why most country never make a big deal of political shutdown.

 

[gambit]

There are other sticks you can used to measure a Government other than Deadlock. Like the most important is whether or not the common man can have a say in their government.

Its becoming a matter of perspective then. Unlike you I live in a country where Politic is more alive than the jungle. So I cannot understand when people want to offer an idea they have to figuratively outrun/outrace a Cheetah just to have a Seat in the Government or forced to gain Nomination from 2 Major party. You are right that PR is flawed, but the FPTP is even more. Do you even realize why most country chose to be PR country? The good things about FPTP is that its less susceptible to Gerrymandering & offer a more "stable" form of government, but in general it will lead to Political Stagnation.

The PR can cause Deadlock that is true, but Deadlock is actually healthy for the Government. It will cause all party in the government to reevaluate themselves. Forcing them to create a Coalition Government, breaking alliances, making compromises & at the of it all. It will create a much more responsive government that are more driven by the Public. That is why most country never make a big deal of political shutdown.

So you first tried to make a big deal out of the US government shutdown because of FPTP, now when presented with irrefutable evidences that PR is no less vulnerable, you say that government shutdowns are actually a good thing.

Bottom line is that despite your attempt to lecture me on basic political science, it looks like it is YOU who did not do your homework, as evident by the fact that you continue to dodge my question on what is the threshold for representation under PR. I doubt that you even knew that such a threshold existed in the first place. The reality is that all political systems have flaws and it is the locations and degrees of those flaws that determine a particular system's preferences by a people.

 

[BoQ77]

yes, Philippine could be said as massive slave mentality after WW2 when Whiteman US could occupied Japan what happened to thats country, yeah, got swot away like insignificant fly and even got nice present as Bell Trade Act enslaved them but now still beg for big papa, if VCP could maintained independence from those whiteman pig is great thing

We wish Pinoys could get more strength themselve for protecting their interests.
Scarborough reef is an initial clear failure of them.

Everyone know Scar belong to Phillipines, but they let it go into Chinese hands easily.

BECAUSE lack of needed power. At least it must cost China a few bullets to rob a reef from others.