U.S. and Pakistan: different wars on terror

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Mr. Agnostic,

I am going to play devils advocate here

First of all US military is fraustrated regarding specific target, which Pakistan did not take any action. Secondly they are also fraustrated that Musharaff did not deliver. Know these are the main bases for US fraustration that I know off, that started the incursions in the Pakistan.

What specific target are you referring to?

The US is frustrated not just because of what is happening in Pakistan, but because it hasn't been able to do much in Afghanistan either, in areas that Pakistan has no influence over.

A corrupt GoA, its involvement in drugs, weapons, and crime, and an abysmal record in development, a GoA that is low on credibility with the Afghans (and probably even lower with the Afghan Pashtun) - that is where the US is failing in Afghanistan. All of the above mentioned illegal activity provides the Taliban a steady flow of resources - money and weapons. Some of those resources were undoubtedly used in the Marriott blast IMO.

However much the US may be frustrated by Pakistan's turmoil and inability to come together on a comprehensive policy on FATA, the fact remains that unilateral escalation in FATA destabilizes Pakistan, undermines the local cooperation in that region for Pakistan (against the Taliban) and therefore undermines the larger WoT.

That is what I mean by the US has no comprehensive policy for regional peace and victory in the larger WoT, if it is indeed intent on pursuing unilateral escalation, not merely as a tool to get the GoP to act, but as a tactical tool in its fight with the Taliban.

Being frustrated with the way things are going does not justify making things worse in the long run over a larger area, just because one needs to show off some tactical gains in a smaller region.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

From the article posted above by Dr. Umer:

Pashtuns in Peshawar, hitherto regarded as secular liberals, told the BBC only last week that they had lost all faith in the West. The decision to violate the country's sovereignty at will had sent them in the direction of the insurgents.

This is essentially a complete undermining of the WoT - it cannot be won if even the moderates are getting isolated.

 

[Omar1984]

By Aamir Latif, IOL Correspondent

ISLAMABAD — Whether it's a government military offensive, a US attack or a suicide bombing, innocent Pakistanis always bear the brunt.
"We should forget for a while who is the killer and see who is being killed," Irfan Siddiqui, an Islamabad-based senior political analyst, told IslamOline.net.

"In Islamabad, it was an ordinary Pakistani, a waiter, security guard, or a laborer," he explained.

"And in the tribal areas, its poor, downtrodden and uneducated Pakistanis with no proper health and education facilities or even potable water."

A suicide bomber rammed a truck packed with more than half a ton of explosives into the security gates of Islamabad's luxury Marriott hotel on Saturday, killing at least 60 people and wounding more than 260 in a massive fireball.

The huge explosion set the entire building on fire for well over eight hours.

Two Americans, the Czech ambassador and a Vietnamese woman were among those killed in the blast. A Danish intelligence agent was still missing.

But once again Pakistanis bore the brunt of the attack with the rest of the identified dead being Pakistanis.

An unknown group calling itself "Fedayeen of Islam" claimed responsibility for the bombing but there was no way of substantiating the claim.

"Pakistanis are killing Pakistanis, whether in Islamabad or in tribal areas. And they don’t know why they are killing each other," said Siddiqui.

"When the Pakistani army kills a couple of Chechens or Uzbeks or Arabs in the tribal areas, along with them ten children, five women, and many other civilians are killed.

"Similarly, in Islamabad, when Marriott is bombed, a couple of Americans are killed, but the remaining fifty were Pakistanis."

"We have lost more soldiers than the US have lost in Afghanistan in this so-called war on terror," Badr told IOL.
Shahzad Badr, an Islamabad-based writer, believes that Pakistan the country and people is the ultimate loser.

"We have lost more soldiers than the US have lost in Afghanistan in this so-called war on terror," he noted.

Thousands of ordinary Pakistanis, Badr adds, have so far been killed at the hands of their own people.

Security forces are killing tribesmen and the tribesmen are killing security troops and common Pakistanis.

"Pakistanis have become cannon fodder just because of someone's war."

He challenged the government and the US to show the bodies of terrorists being killed by security forces in the tribal areas.

"Do you expect flowers in return of bullets? When you kill their children and women, what would you expect in return?"

The writer also cited the rather official and media indifference to the civilians killed in tribal areas.

"When civilians are bombed and killed in tribal areas in the name of hunting terrorists, there is no hue and cry in Islamabad or the rest of the country. Neither media nor common people protest that indiscriminate bombings. But if it happens in Islamabad, then it seems as if the sky has fallen."

Siddiqui, senior political analyst, is also very critical of the indiscriminate bombings in tribal areas.

"Unfortunately, we have produced a raw material by bombing tribal areas and killing thousands of civilians. Now this raw material is being easily exploited. We are giving room to the exploiters to exploit young tribesmen in the name of revenge."

He noted that revenge is an inseparable part of the Pashtu culture.

"We have to understand the psychology of the people who are being killed in the tribal areas, and in retaliation, their heirs attack us," he said.

"The people of tribal areas are mostly uneducated. The strongest aspect of their society is revenge. When they see that Pakistanis and Americans join hands and bomb their villages, killing their children and women, then they don’t think who is Irfan Siddiqui or Mohammed Raees (a security guard who was killed in the blast)," he argued.

"They simply think they are Islamabadians or Karachiites who, along with America, are killing them. They just believe in revenge and a blind revenge."

Hamid Hussein, a photographer by profession, raps both the government and Taliban.

"Have we ever thought who will win this war in which we are killing our own people? Can the two annihilate each other? Can Taliban win the war against America by killing their own Muslim brothers?" Hussein fumes.

"From north to south, poor Pakistanis are being killed, while terrorists and Americans, by and large, are safe."

He urged the government and the local militants to reconsider their positions.

"How many orphans and widows they are leaving behind?"



Pakistanis Big Loser in War on Terror - IslamOnline.net - News

 

[RabzonKhan]

So when will NATO stop funding AQ and Taliban terrorists…..Yes, that’s exactly what they are doing by allowing uninterrupted poppy trade, when will they have the guts to take on the warlords and druglords?

Can any one answer that, any one?



NATO accused of sheltering Afghan heroin trade

September 24, 2008, 15:21

Since NATO forces invaded Afghanistan, the production of heroin in the country increased by 2.5 times and Afghanistan has become the world leader in heroin production. Eighteen tonnes of heroin from Afghanistan ends up in Russia each year.

Russia at war with heroin

As a result of this war Russia has become one of the main markets for Afghan opiates, involuntary acknowledged Russian Federal Drugs Control Service, and drug traffickers are financing terrorist organizations worldwide, says the Interfax news agency.

The Director of FDCS, Viktor Ivanov, tolds journalists that a drug addict’s life is limited to 5-7 years from the moment he becomes one.

He also said that those 400,000 drug addicts officially registered in Russia in 2001 are already dead and the number of new ones is growing by 30% every year. That is why the losses should be regarded as Russia’s direct casualties in the war that NATO wages on Afghanistan.

“The problem of Afghan opiates has a geopolitical character,” stressed Ivanov.

While in Russia up to 90% of drug addicts depend on Afghan opiates, in Europe this volume is up to 10%.

Strategic drug trafficking

The head of the FDCS insists that it is not just the Taliban that manages the heroin traffic but the Afghan governmental and security services’ officials known by name.

The fact that dozens of high-ranking Afghan officials are known to be involved in the drug industry means that corrupted authorities work hand in hand with the Taliban terrorist movement, which in turn means that NATO military forces support the current Afghan regime.

Within the framework of the Russia-NATO Council Russia is financing and conducting special training for Afghan police squads dealing with drug trafficking. Unfortunately, for more than a year not a single Afghan policeman came to Russia for training which is no wonder considering the fact that all actions of Afghanistan’s security services should be sanctioned by the U.S.

 

[jeypore]

What specific target are you referring to?

The US is frustrated not just because of what is happening in Pakistan, but because it hasn't been able to do much in Afghanistan either, in areas that Pakistan has no influence over.

A corrupt GoA, its involvement in drugs, weapons, and crime, and an abysmal record in development, a GoA that is low on credibility with the Afghans (and probably even lower with the Afghan Pashtun) - that is where the US is failing in Afghanistan. All of the above mentioned illegal activity provides the Taliban a steady flow of resources - money and weapons. Some of those resources were undoubtedly used in the Marriott blast IMO.

However much the US may be frustrated by Pakistan's turmoil and inability to come together on a comprehensive policy on FATA, the fact remains that unilateral escalation in FATA destabilizes Pakistan, undermines the local cooperation in that region for Pakistan (against the Taliban) and therefore undermines the larger WoT.

That is what I mean by the US has no comprehensive policy for regional peace and victory in the larger WoT, if it is indeed intent on pursuing unilateral escalation, not merely as a tool to get the GoP to act, but as a tactical tool in its fight with the Taliban.

Being frustrated with the way things are going does not justify making things worse in the long run over a larger area, just because one needs to show off some tactical gains in a smaller region.

I would not know which specific target that is mentioned in this article, but clearly there is frustration that the targets US whats Pakistan is not abbiding by or not going after.

Regarding comprehensive plan for FATA you might be right, but I believe US is after the head of snake (Osama). They must be under impression that if you cut the head then everything will fall in place. Which i believe it is bad assumption because taliban and Al quida is a adhock organization, you have to destroy cell by cell in order to succeed.

Or lastly, maybe Bush just wants to leave with a legacy, and clearly believes that Osama is in Pakistan.

 

[Omar1984]

Its not in Pakistan's best interst to continue with this war.

1. Pakistan has lost more number of troops than U.S. troops and NATO combined.
2. More Pakistani civilians have lost their lives in FATA alone than the number of American civilian lives lost on 9/11.
3. Taliban gets stronger. The reason being civilian losses.
4. More Pakistani civilian losses in major cities like Islamabad. A retaliation by civilian losses in FATA.
5. Ethnic tensions and mistrust. Many people in FATA are now blaming Islamabadians and Karachiites for the bombing of their villages by the Pakistani army and American missle strikes that has caused massive civilian losses.

This is a very dangerous situation for Pakistan, the ethnic tensions can lead the worst imaginable outcome for Pakistan. Many people in FATA are starting to hate Pakistan, can Pakistan really afford a civil war between ethnic groups just to satisfy Bush or Obama or any Zionists controlling Washington today?

 

[RabzonKhan]

Many people in FATA are starting to hate Pakistan, can Pakistan really afford a civil war between ethnic groups

Are these your own opinions or do you have some data to back this up, Omar?

 

[Spring Onion]

So when will NATO stop funding AQ and Taliban terrorists…..Yes, that’s exactly what they are doing by allowing uninterrupted poppy trade, when will they have the guts to take on the warlords and druglords?

Can any one answer that, any one?



NATO accused of sheltering Afghan heroin trade

September 24, 2008, 15:21

Since NATO forces invaded Afghanistan, the production of heroin in the country increased by 2.5 times and Afghanistan has become the world leader in heroin production. Eighteen tonnes of heroin from Afghanistan ends up in Russia each year.

Russia at war with heroin

As a result of this war Russia has become one of the main markets for Afghan opiates, involuntary acknowledged Russian Federal Drugs Control Service, and drug traffickers are financing terrorist organizations worldwide, says the Interfax news agency.

The Director of FDCS, Viktor Ivanov, tolds journalists that a drug addict’s life is limited to 5-7 years from the moment he becomes one.

He also said that those 400,000 drug addicts officially registered in Russia in 2001 are already dead and the number of new ones is growing by 30% every year. That is why the losses should be regarded as Russia’s direct casualties in the war that NATO wages on Afghanistan.

“The problem of Afghan opiates has a geopolitical character,” stressed Ivanov.

While in Russia up to 90% of drug addicts depend on Afghan opiates, in Europe this volume is up to 10%.

Strategic drug trafficking

The head of the FDCS insists that it is not just the Taliban that manages the heroin traffic but the Afghan governmental and security services’ officials known by name.

The fact that dozens of high-ranking Afghan officials are known to be involved in the drug industry means that corrupted authorities work hand in hand with the Taliban terrorist movement, which in turn means that NATO military forces support the current Afghan regime.

Within the framework of the Russia-NATO Council Russia is financing and conducting special training for Afghan police squads dealing with drug trafficking. Unfortunately, for more than a year not a single Afghan policeman came to Russia for training which is no wonder considering the fact that all actions of Afghanistan’s security services should be sanctioned by the U.S.

Well it is an established fact that drug trade is going on in Afghanistan under NATO and US. They know the stalkholders in this trade ranging from Karzai to warlords being supported by US.

 

[Omar1984]

Are these your own opinions or do you have some data to back this up, Omar?

watch this

a well known Pakistani journalist went to FATA and is telling his experience on what the people there think about Pakistan.

 

[RabzonKhan]

watch this Xhy6BR8Hb38[/media] - Pakistan in trouble video by Bhatti

a well known Pakistani journalist went to FATA and is telling his experience on what the people there think about Pakistan.

Its just Hamid Mir’s opinion, this guy is a well known Taliban supporter.

 

[RabzonKhan]

Additionally, Craddock explained that some nations are concerned that this increased role might cause the traffickers and insurgents to attack NATO forces more ferociously.

There you go, the “mighty” NATO is even scared of traffickers…. talk about paper tigers.


NATO top commander urges greater role in counter-narcotic in Afghanistan

www.chinaview.cn 2008-09-25 14:04:42

KABUL, Sept. 25 (Xinhua) -- NATO Supreme Allied Commander General John Craddock wrapped up a three-day trip to Afghanistan on Thursday and urged the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) to increase its role in fighting narcotics, an ISAF press briefing received here said.

During the visit, General Craddock received an operational update at the ISAF Headquarters in Afghan capital Kabul and traveled to Regional Command West in western Afghan province of Herat, followed by a brief stop at a Provincial Reconstruction Team in Farah province, the press release said.

Craddock explained his recent push to increase ISAF's role in counter-narcotics in an interview with media traveling with his party, it said.

"As an interim measure, I've asked for expanded authority from NATO to permit ISAF attack of drug laboratories and drug trafficking facilities, not the farmers," it quoted Craddock as saying.

Additionally, Craddock explained that some nations are concerned that this increased role might cause the traffickers and insurgents to attack NATO forces more ferociously.

However, the top NATO commander was convinced ISAF must be able to carry out these types of operations and was optimistic that the North Atlantic Council would approve his request.

"The fact is the soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines of NATO are being killed because of the money being generated from this industry," he noted.

"As a commander I cannot let this continue without doing everything I can to stop it. This is the best measure we can give our forces for the best opportunity to come home safe and sound," he added.

Around 71,000 foreign troops have been being deployed respectively under the leadership of ISAF and the U.S.-led Coalition forces in war-torn Afghanistan to which long-term military existing and reinforcement have been promised.

 

[RabzonKhan]

Silent majority stirs


September 28, 2008. FATA’s silent majority now seems to be stirring. It has for years watched in agony the destruction of its environs. Its once peaceful valleys and ravines are now a theatre of war, with homes, fields and shops destroyed, the tribesmen’s means of livelihood disrupted, and hundreds of thousands of men, women and children turned into internal refugees.

Even though seething with anger, the tribesmen had failed to act, overawed as they were by the ubiquitous Taliban’s ruthlessness and presumed invincibility. However, things seem to be changing. A report by our correspondent in Landi Kotal informs us that a tribal lashkar in Khyber Agency captured on Thursday nine militants and freed a prayer leader whom the Taliban had kidnapped. Those taking the lead in challenging the Taliban and rescuing the cleric belonged to the Malagori tribe. This is not an isolated example. In the Bara tehsil, the Kalakhel tribe has raised a lashkar and warned those giving shelter to the Taliban that they would be fined Rs5m and their homes demolished. In Bajaur, the main battle theatre, the Othmankhel and Salarzai tribes have openly come out against the militants and are taking vigorous actions permitted by tribal traditions to get rid of the terrorists. Similar trends are emerging in Dir, Buner and Shabqadar.

In 2003, too, some tribal elders had attempted to mobilise their tribesmen against the militants, but the campaign failed because it was government-inspired. This time, however, it is the tribesmen’s own effort, because they have seen havoc being wreaked on their traditional way of life by local and foreign Taliban. The government has to build on this positive development and secure the active cooperation of those among the anti-militant tribesmen who are willing to take on the Taliban and restore peace to their area. One major reason for the change in the tribesmen’s attitude is the losses the Taliban have suffered in the ongoing military operation. The operation must be carried on relentlessly, and the enemy given no respite.

During Ramazan the Taliban have blown up gas and water pipelines and destroyed electric installations to cause hardship to the people in order to arouse anti-government feelings. The authorities must, therefore, ensure the security of vital installations by enlisting the community’s cooperation. Also, to ensure against collateral damage, the people should be warned in advance of a crackdown so that the non-combatants are evacuated well in advance.

 

[RabzonKhan]

Fairly good assessment of the situation.


Major failure of US policies in Afghanistan

Raghav Sharma. Sunday, 09.28.2008.

Eight years have passed since the terror attacks of 9/11 and the launch of 'Operation Enduring Freedom' by the US. However, in spite of efforts on the political, military and economic front, why is Afghanistan tethering on the brink of slipping into anarchy? There are some fundamental problems that plague US policy in Afghanistan.

The fall of the Taliban had generated immense euphoria and expectations amongst the Afghans. The first four-odd years that followed the Taliban's ouster witnessed some progress on the economic fronts and women's rights and enrollment in schools exceeded all expectations.

However, from mid-2006 storm clouds began to gather over the Afghan horizon as the US had to confront a resurgent Taliban, mounting civilian casualties, increasingly hostile public opinion, rampant corruption in the US-backed Karzai government and record levels of opium production, pegged at a huge 6,100 metric tones, amongst a host of problems.

The current turmoil in Afghanistan does not come as a surprise, given the frail foundations on which a new order in Afghanistan was sought to be built. To begin with, barring some success in building the Afghan National Army, the US failed to engage in any 'nation-building' activity that could have played a key role in whittling down support for the Taliban.

In fact, there was a conscious attempt not to engage in 'nation building,' reflected in the downgrading of the army and civil affairs units of the US army that play a key role in 'nation building' activities. Another crucial empirical indicator of a lack of commitment to 'nation building' is the paltry levels of per capita investment that stood at a mere US$57.

This figure appears more dismal when compared to other major areas of US intervention such as US$100 in Bosnia or US$679 in Kosovo. Moreover, even of the aid that did trickle in, some 86 per cent was estimated to be 'phantom aid,' that is, it was spent on goods and services from the US as opposed to being spent on developing indigenous capabilities.

Second, the US-backed Karzai government has failed to provide effective governance to the war-weary Afghan population. US policy failed to effectively build up the capacity of the government, which is afflicted with rampant corruption, particularly in crucial branches like the police and judiciary.

The Taliban in contrast, curbed crime and delivered instant (if, brutal) justice through the Sharia courts. The secular courts on the other hand, are disdained, not because of their secular legal character, but because of the endemic corruption that plagues them.

A glaring faux pax that further undermined the fragile governance capacity was the US decision to prop up warlords in the countryside - a measure that undermined efforts to disarm and pacify the countryside.

This failure to demonstrate any tangible change on the ground, coupled with mounting civilian casualties (1,500 in 2007), often in NATO-led air strikes, has transformed initial public sympathy for US troops into hostility.

The Taliban have shrewdly seized the opportunity to play upon prevailing public sentiment. Taliban resurgence, especially strong in South Afghanistan, would not have been possible without some degree of local support. In his testimony on 11 December 2007, the US Joint Chief of Staff, Michael Mullen, stated that "Taliban support had tripled to about 20 percent over the past two years."

This surge in local support reflects not so much an endorsement of Taliban policies, as it reflects the fatigue with the continuing political, economic and social morass. Three other factors have helped fuel the Taliban resurgence.

First, the US policy of not applying the Geneva conventions to the alleged Taliban prisoners held at Guantanamo and Bagram has served to inflame passions. Second, there has been a failure to work out modalities for encouraging Taliban fighters to return to the mainstream and also a failure to distinguish between the moderates (with whom a compromise could have possibly been hammered out) and extremists within Taliban ranks.

Third, the diversion of technical, human and financial resources to the Iraq war played its part in developing a fertile breeding ground in Pakistan. The inept handling of the Afghan theatre represents a major failure of US policy in the 'war on terror' and highlights the need for a radical reconceptualization if Afghanistan's gradual descent into anarchy is to be curtailed.

Some of the key policy blind spots outlined above have significantly contributed to the instability that is tightening its grip on Afghanistan and demonstrates the urgent need for a course correction. The writer is Research Intern, IPCS

 

[RabzonKhan]

Pakistan made a 'scapegoat' in terror war: FM

1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said Wednesday that his country was being made a "scapegoat" for the international failure to contain insurgent violence in neighboring Afghanistan.

He insisted that Pakistan was confronting Al-Qaeda and Taliban militant activity on its side of the border, which Washington has said was being used as a staging ground for terror attacks against US and other allied troops in Afghanistan.

"A large segment of the Pakistani public therefore believes Pakistan is being made the scapegoat for ISAF and Afghanistan government's failings," Qureshi said in a speech at Princeton University in New Jersey.

A copy of the speech was provided to AFP by the Pakistan embassy in Washington.

"We are doing our share in stabilizing the situation in Afghanistan. However we must be honest to ourselves that the majority of Afghanistan's problems originate in and must be treated in Afghanistan," he said.

The International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) is conducting by far its biggest and most complex operation in Afghanistan, where there are about 70,000 foreign troops, most of them deployed under the NATO banner.

Relations between the United States and Pakistan have been strained after US troops in Afghanistan stepped up attacks on militants inside Pakistani territory amid Washington's concerns that Islamabad was not doing enough in containing insurgents.

Qureshi sought closer coordination among the United States, Pakistan and Afghanistan, saying each partner should "shed preconceived ideas and notions about the others' actions and motivations.

"The approach should be to address the problems rather than scoring media points," he said.

He called for a beefing up of capacity of both Pakistani and Afghanistan forces to fight insurgents.

On the Pakistani side, he said the country lacked night fighting capability and needed the means to gather real time intelligence and to mount a "precision response in which there is minimal collateral damage."

Qureshi wanted "a matching response on the Afghanistan side" to border control measures Pakistan had instituted.

"We have some 1,100 posts along the border. There are about a hundred or so on the Afghanistan side. These posts and measures should act as a double net," he said.

The minister said that while disagreements could erupt between allies,"We must not forget that Pakistan and the United States are a team in this war.

"Neither can win this war easily without the other."

 

[Goodperson]

watch this Xhy6BR8Hb38[/media] - Pakistan in trouble video by Bhatti

a well known Pakistani journalist went to FATA and is telling his experience on what the people there think about Pakistan.

Hamid mir is a quite renowned journalist, he has Notable articles and awards.
Infact he is challenging Zardari or any of his ministers to visit these area's if proved otherwise he offered to quit journalism I mean that does speak of ground realities.