TYPE 214 SUB VS AMUR 1650 SUB A Layman's analysis

[jha]

why cant we ?? ofcourse it is a joint indo russian project ,

---------- Post added at 11:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 PM ----------


but bro if we could take their help in building AIP technology as they have world 's cutting edge AIP technology

But will they help us in developing such a crucial tech...? especially when they can offer their ready made solution and get a business of hundreds of Millions Dollars.. Engine development for Arjun-II was another example..

Fance can help us in this area since they have got Rafale..If a certain sengupta is to be believed, France will probably share tech. of Baracuda with us...Lets hope for the best..

 

[DrSomnath999]

But will they help us in developing such a crucial tech...? especially when they can offer their ready made solution and get a business of hundreds of Millions Dollars.. Engine development for Arjun-II was another example..

well i fully agree with u on this whether they would share that key technology i dont know, but if complete ToT is a part of
project 75I deal then germany would have to transfer that technology if it wants to win this deal.

Fance can help us in this area since they have got Rafale..If a certain sengupta is to be believed, France will probably share tech. of Baracuda with us...Lets hope for the best..

well france could help us i wont deny it but so do Russians ,but the fact that is important is to have a good futuristc submarine
which fullfills all the objectives Of INDIAN navy starting from AIP,Land attack capabilty & which doesnt have any problems while
operating like that seen in germany type 214 subs/ russians project 667 lada subs

 

[jha]

well i fully agree with u on this whether they would share that key technology i dont know, but if complete ToT is a part of
project 75I deal then germany would have to transfer that technology if it wants to win this deal.


well france could help us i wont deny it but so do Russians ,but the fact that is important is to have a good futuristc submarine
which fullfills all the objectives Of INDIAN navy starting from AIP,Land attack capabilty & which doesnt have any problems while
operating like that seen in germany type 214 subs/ russians project 667 lada subs

I know my take on this is very unpopular here but i dont understand this urge to have a super costly Diesel submarine and expect it to do everything. The best propulsion available is Nuclear. We should concentrate on acquiring more number of less costly diesel submarines for coastal defense while pump more money in nuclear submarine.

A SSGN/SSN of the size of Arihanth with inputs from Akula+Baracuda+Arihanth will be the best option. Should induct cheap diesel submarines for beefing up the numbers..But IN folks know better...

 

[DrSomnath999]

I know my take on this is very unpopular here but i dont understand this urge to have a super costly Diesel submarine and expect it to do everything. The best propulsion available is Nuclear. We should concentrate on acquiring more number of less costly diesel submarines for coastal defense while pump more money in nuclear submarine.

A SSGN/SSN of the size of Arihanth with inputs from Akula+Baracuda+Arihanth will be the best option. Should induct cheap diesel submarines for beefing up the numbers..But IN folks know better...

see cost factor well i am with u ,but mate u should also see that Conventional SSK has it's advantage if u can have SSk with
3rd gen AIP system which has endurance of 80 days similar to Nuke SUB ,& usually SSK are silent compare to Nuke sub .BTW
Nothing comes cheap now until & unless we develop our own submarines

 

[DrSomnath999]

Russia: USC Plans to Test SSK St. Petersburg in 2012
United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) plans to conduct deep-sea trials of Project 677 lead diesel submarine St. Petersburg in 2012, said a spokesman for Russian defense industry.
“Presently, SSK St. Petersburg is under experimental operation and will pass deep-sea trials in the current year”, said the source of ITAR-TASS.
Earlier on, Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief ADM Vladimir Vysotsky criticized the lead sub of Project 677. However, directors of USC do not share his opinion.
The submarine’s designers from the Rubin bureau feel sanguine about Project 677 which is going to be reviewed in 2012 and then presented to the Navy command again.
Admiral Vysotsky pointed out that Russian Navy would not waive Project 667 Lada non-nuclear subs, all claims are related only to powerplant of the lead submarine.
“I used violent language regarding the lead sub St. Petersburg but not Project Lada in general”, explained Vysotsky.
Project 667 lead sub is under trial operation at the moment. “Main problem of that submarine is powerplant”, added the admiral.
Russia: USC Plans to Test SSK St. Petersburg in 2012 >> Naval Today

if russia wants to win the deal they must induct project 677

 

[sancho]

Russia: USC Plans to Test SSK St. Petersburg in 2012
United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) plans to conduct deep-sea trials of Project 677 lead diesel submarine St. Petersburg in 2012, said a spokesman for Russian defense industry.
“Presently, SSK St. Petersburg is under experimental operation and will pass deep-sea trials in the current year”, said the source of ITAR-TASS.
Earlier on, Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief ADM Vladimir Vysotsky criticized the lead sub of Project 677. However, directors of USC do not share his opinion.
The submarine’s designers from the Rubin bureau feel sanguine about Project 677 which is going to be reviewed in 2012 and then presented to the Navy command again.
Admiral Vysotsky pointed out that Russian Navy would not waive Project 667 Lada non-nuclear subs, all claims are related only to powerplant of the lead submarine.
“I used violent language regarding the lead sub St. Petersburg but not Project Lada in general”, explained Vysotsky.
Project 667 lead sub is under trial operation at the moment. “Main problem of that submarine is powerplant”, added the admiral.
Russia: USC Plans to Test SSK St. Petersburg in 2012 >> Naval Today

if russia wants to win the deal they must induct project 677

You might have missed this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/30327-indian-navy-news-discussions-109.html#post2594898

 

[trinity]

Isnt the Type 214 the sub that the American Navy is closely studying to find out its weaknesses? It seems that this particular sub is quite effective and not even AMerica currently has any way of pinpointing it. Now that;s a weapon that India should be interested in.

 

[DrSomnath999]

You might have missed this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/30327-indian-navy-news-discussions-110.html#post2654999

well bro i couldnt find anything that i missed on that thread

 

[DrSomnath999]

Isnt the Type 214 the sub that the American Navy is closely studying to find out its weaknesses? It seems that this particular sub is quite effective and not even AMerica currently has any way of pinpointing it. Now that;s a weapon that India should be interested in.

well i dont know about american study ,but type 214 was export version of type 212 which is one of the quitetest SSK in the world.
Well type 214 was also marred by some problems

 

[Yeti]

Forget type 214 its all about 216 which is ideal for India if they can fit Brahmos into it.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Forget type 214 its all about 216 which is ideal for India if they can fit Brahmos into it.

correct ,but the problem it is still in sketches & need a working prototype to demonstrate it's capabilty

 

[Yeti]

correct ,but the problem it is still in sketches & need a working prototype to demonstrate it's capabilty

The fuel cell technology u mean? is pretty new & needs to be proved and tested I would agree but if anyone can it's the Germans.

Super-stealth sub powered by fuel cell - CNN


Was reading this article on the technology used its pretty amazing how far the Germans are in the field.

 

[DrSomnath999]

The fuel cell technology u mean? is pretty new & needs to be proved and tested I would agree but if anyone can it's the Germans.

Super-stealth sub powered by fuel cell - CNN


Was reading this article on the technology used its pretty amazing how far the Germans are in the field.

NOOO....NOOO i am not talking about fuel celll tech , i am talking about the type 216 submarine as a whole not it's components.There is
no working prototype of that sub built yet now.

 

[Yeti]

NOOO....NOOO i am not talking about fuel celll tech , i am talking about the type 216 submarine as a whole not it's components.There is
no working prototype of that sub built yet now.

The technology is already in place the main diffrence is the fuel cell system on the 216 but the rest of it is not that much diffrent to the 214 so i cant see it being a issue.


The 216 was developed specifically for countries like India and Oz in mind:


HDW 216 submarine’s development objective is to participate in the Australian Department of Defense under the SEA 1000 program activities at the target. According to the Australian government’s plan, as in 2025 the Navy purchased its 12 large conventional submarines,

 

[acetophenol]

Dear Doc,
How many special forces can type 214 deploy?does any of india's current subs has this capability? Does amur has this capability?