Two War Trophies in China military museum, u should know

[Aepsilons]

That is just looting.

Yes, it would seem that it is. An unfortunate circumstance of war.

 

[Genesis]

You'd be surprised what you see in Japanese military museums, buddy.

Altar statues of the Lingyin Temple (Temple of Inspired Seclusion) from east China's Zhejiang Province

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Its in a Japanese museum now for posterity's sake.

oh I'm not surprised, I purposely didn't mention those, I and most others, would call it rob, because they weren't from the hands of your enemy. They were taken from civilians. The Americans gave a lot of those things back, and even gave back the bell from Japan. But not everyone have class I guess.

The sword and the flag were taken in battle, not robbed from civilians. Big difference.

lol, I can't believe you brought it up, that really says more about you than anything else. Sometimes I just want to see how people respond to gauge a few things.


Which is also why Americans and us can be enemies, but we have respect for each other and we can work together if it calls for it, Japan and China, not so much, you guys just give us reasons to hate you more and more.

 

[qamar1990]

They r valuable War Trophies captured by Chinese soldiers during Two Big Wars, to capture these historic significant trophies many Chinese soldiers lost their lifes on the battlefield.

There's no other same trophy in any foreign nation, only existed in China military museum.


1. China NanJing military museum, the Japanese Emperor Royal Samurai Sword

Japanese Emperor awarded Royal Samurai Sword (天皇 Logo & Royal Kikumon of the Imperial Family of Japan) to the TOP6 officers of Japan Imperial Officer Academy (陆大军刀组天皇御赐佩刀，每期前六才有), captured by Chinese soldiers in WWII.
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2. China BeiJing military museum, U.S.A 31st Infantry Regiment - "Polar Bear Regiment" Flag

In Korea War, Chinese soldiers from the Chinese People's Volunteers defeat U.S.A 31st Infantry Regiment approximately 3,000 soldiers, end the battle Chinese soldiers captured the only U.S.A Regiment Flag from Korea back to China.

Task Force Faith, also known as Task Force Maclean (and by its official designation, Regimental Combat Team 31 (RCT-31)) or the Polar Bear Regiment
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Right now these War Trophies still lay on the table inside Chinese military museum, that's Chinese Soldier's Courage not on the Mouth.

china lost 4300 men to get that flag vs 1000 american soldiers… also americans were out numbered.
nothing special.
america is still better and will remain better then china for the foreseeable future.

 

[Aepsilons]

china lost 4300 men to get that flag vs 1000 american soldiers… also americans were out numbered.
nothing special.
america is still better and will remain better then china for the foreseeable future.

Its just like American soldiers keeping IJA's regimental colours after a battle.

We don't have clamoring on Japanese side requesting them back.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Yes, it would seem that it is. An unfortunate circumstance of war.

I believe returning a few looted artifacts can seriously improve Sino-Japanese relations.
In 1972, when Japan PM visited China, he returned a few looted cultural artifacts back to China.

 

[Aepsilons]

oh I'm not surprised, I purposely didn't mention those, I and most others, would call it rob, because they weren't from the hands of your enemy. They were taken from civilians. The Americans gave a lot of those things back, and even gave back the bell from Japan. But not everyone have class I guess.

The sword and the flag were taken in battle, not robbed from civilians. Big difference.

lol, I can't believe you brought it up, that really says more about you than anything else. Sometimes I just want to see how people respond to gauge a few things.


Which is also why Americans and us can be enemies, but we have respect for each other and we can work together if it calls for it, Japan and China, not so much, you guys just give us reasons to hate you more and more.

Don't take it personally, dude. I'm only telling the truth, would you rather have me try to pretend like it doesn't exist or that there are no war memorabilia from China in Japanese museums? That was the custom of the day, the spoils of war. You think its unfair? Ask the Indians about the British' retention of the "Queen's jewels" which are actually Indian jewelry taken during the occupation. You know how much Americans looted from Japan, too? They even keep antique swords and statues as 'war memorabilia' , displayed in West Point Military Academy and what not. You don't see or hear us barking for it back. Museums are what they are, they are repository of history, and it shows and reiterates of what happened in human history. Its painful to some, but it is a reminder of what not to repeat.

Btw, there have been many spoils of war that have been returned to China over the years.

I believe returning a few looted artifacts can seriously improve Sino-Japanese relations.
In 1972, when Japan PM visited China, he returned a few looted cultural artifacts back to China.

Yes, of course it would. And a lot of looted material have been returned to China over the years. It is just important to identify the real owner , you know? As much has happened in China since the 1930s, who knows if the owners' descendents are even still alive. Simply returning it to unproven owners could lead to the material being sent to the black arts market. At least while we are trying to identify the owners, it can be displayed and protected in Japanese museums. Where it is not harmed by illegal art collectors.

 

[Genesis]

Don't take it personally, dude. I'm only telling the truth, would you rather have me try to pretend like it doesn't exist or that there are no war memorabilia from China in Japanese museums? That was the custom of the day, the spoils of war. You think its unfair? Ask the Indians about the British' retention of the "Queen's jewels" which are actually Indian jewelry taken during the occupation. Museums are what they are, they are repository of history, and it shows and reiterates of what happened in human history. Its painful to some, but it is a reminder of what not to repeat.

Btw, there have been many spoils of war that have been returned to China over the years.



Yes, of course it would. And a lot of looted material have been returned to China over the years. It is just important to identify the real owner , you know? As much has happened in China since the 1930s, who knows if the owners' descendents are even still alive. Simply returning it to unproven owners could lead to the material being sent to the black arts market. At least while we are trying to identify the owners, it can be displayed and protected in Japanese museums. Where it is not harmed by illegal art collectors.

Always a reason isn't there. You want to bet that none of those things belong to the country of China, in Chinese museums? I doubt it.

The Japanese invasion is evil, don't try to make it seem anything other than that. Though to be fair to you, it is only that way, cause you lost, lesson, don't lose.

History won't be repeated, though not because of those artifacts, but because the natural balance is slowly restoring it self.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Yes, of course it would. And a lot of looted material have been returned to China over the years. It is just important to identify the real owner , you know? As much has happened in China since the 1930s, who knows if the owners' descendents are even still alive. Simply returning it to unproven owners could lead to the material being sent to the black arts market. At least while we are trying to identify the owners, it can be displayed and protected in Japanese museums. Where it is not harmed by illegal art collectors.

I can see that as the case for some artifacts, but it is obvious that looted Buddhist statues belongs to the temple museum.

 

[Aepsilons]

Always a reason isn't there. You want to bet that none of those things belong to the country of China, in Chinese museums? I doubt it.

Did i say that ? Actually, if you re-read my posts , you will see that I even admitted that there are Chinese artifacts, many of them acquired the legal way, some through war loot. Its unfortunate that it happened, but what can we do, that is history. It happened.

The Japanese invasion is evil, don't try to make it seem anything other than that. Though to be fair to you, it is only that way, cause you lost, lesson, don't lose.

The way Japan handled the war was , i admit, brutal and in a subjective sense seem evil. Japan at that time was an Imperialistic and police state. It was a hegemon of the East, and it wanted to rule the entirety of Asia-Pacific. In those days, Japan had touted that Japanese were the supreme race in Asia, and those who were conquered peoples would be the eternal servants of the Japanese people and Japanese Empire. Its called war propaganda, and it was unfortunate that such a propaganda had influenced the Japanese people the way it did. One of the unfortunate results of unchecked Racial Superiority Theories and Ultra-nationalism.

History won't be repeated, though not because of those artifacts, but because the natural balance is slowly restoring it self.

As the saying goes, if one does not study history or be wary, then it is doomed to repeat itself.

 

[Genesis]

Did i say that ? Actually, if you re-read my posts , you will see that I even admitted that there are Chinese artifacts, many of them acquired the legal way, some through war loot. Its unfortunate that it happened, but what can we do, that is history. It happened.




The way Japan handled the war was , i admit, brutal and in a subjective sense seem evil. Japan at that time was an Imperialistic and police state. It was a hegemon of the East, and it wanted to rule the entirety of Asia-Pacific. In those days, Japan had touted that Japanese were the supreme race in Asia, and those who were conquered peoples would be the eternal servants of the Japanese people and Japanese Empire. Its called war propaganda, and it was unfortunate that such a propaganda and influenced the Japanese people the way it did.




As the saying goes, if one does not study history or be wary, then it is doomed to repeat itself.

seemed Evil? What's unit 731, was that normal warfare? Did the Geneva convention not mention Germ wafare was evil? The killing of civilians was that not evil?

Did the Americans do that to you guys? Granted they did drop the Atomic bomb for more or less that reason and could be counted as all three, but I didn't excuse the Americans did I.

But we are not here to talk about that.

BTW, you mean many were looted and some were acquired the legal way. I doubt we given that much to Japan as gifts, and selling of artifacts by an individual is punishable by death in China so....


As to your last sentence, doubtful, never would China wake up one day and say, you know what's missing in our huge nation in size and population and resources? Japan.

 

[Aepsilons]

seemed Evil? What's unit 731, was that normal warfare? Did the Geneva convention not mention Germ wafare was evil? The killing of civilians was that not evil?

Unit 731 was barbaric , those who were part of that special group were guilty of human rights violations , definitely. I condemn their actions and participation. What's also interesting is that Uni 731 did reveal vast amounts of biological warfare, specifically in microbiology and virology research. This was the reason why Gen. Shiro Ishii, who was the leader of the group was given immunity , and had contributed to US biomedical research after the war. In fact, he was even a distinguished lecturer in University of Maryland and also collaborated with US scientists in Fort Detrick. The Soviets, too, even took much of the data acquired by Unit 731...and had agreed with the Americans to given Ishii and others 'immunity'.

seemed Evil? What's unit 731, was that normal warfare? Did the Geneva convention not mention Germ wafare was evil? The killing of civilians was that not evil?

Unit 731 was a secret group, its existence was even unbeknownst to many members of the Imperial Army.

Did the Americans do that to you guys? Granted they did drop the Atomic bomb for more or less that reason and could be counted as all three, but I didn't excuse the Americans did I.

No, in that regards, no they did not. One of the unfortunate aspects that the Imperial Army was guilty of was its lack of observation of the Geneva Convention, and the adherence to the Rules of War. I agree with this.

BTW, you mean many were looted and some were acquired the legal way. I doubt we given that much to Japan as gifts, and selling of artifacts by an individual is punishable by death in China so....

There are many Chinese memorabilia in Japan because of the extensive trade and exchange of cultures and artifacts throughout the 2 millenias of contact. Btw, you will be surprised to know that there is a huge black market that profits in sales of stolen artifacts.

As to your last sentence, doubtful, never would China wake up one day and say, you know what's missing in our huge nation in size and population and resources? Japan.

Sure buddy.

 

[Genesis]

Unit 731 was barbaric , those who were part of that special group were guilty of human rights violations , definitely. I condemn their actions and participation. What's also interesting is that Uni 731 did reveal vast amounts of biological warfare, specifically in microbiology and virology research. This was the reason why Gen. Shiro Ishii, who was the leader of the group was given immunity , and had contributed to US biomedical research after the war. In fact, he was even a distinguished lecturer in University of Maryland and also collaborated with US scientists in Fort Detrick. The Soviets, too, even took much of the data acquired by Unit 731...and had agreed with the Americans to given Ishii and others 'immunity'.




Unit 731 was a secret group, its existence was even unbeknownst to many members of the Imperial Army.

Then you can't use the Mao years as a excuse, cause even Mao didn't want to kill people, it happened, but it was not the original intent.

And I know the history of 731, and I don't care, the Americans for better or worse, owned us nothing, they didn't commit the atrocities and they didn't encourage it, all they did is make a deal.

No, in that regards, no they did not. One of the unfortunate aspects that the Imperial Army was guilty of was its lack of observation of the Geneva Convention, and the adherence to the Rules of War. I agree with this.

They dropped it on Japan not China, if you feel that's well within the rules then it is, who am I to say it isn't.

There are many Chinese memorabilia in Japan because of the extensive trade and exchange of cultures and artifacts throughout the 2 millenias of contact. Btw, you will be surprised to know that there is a huge black market that profits in sales of stolen artifacts.

Black market goods don't make it into Museums, at least not suppose to.

As to exchanges and such, I did take that into account, and I don't count those as illegal. I don't even count the warship that you took from the first Sino Japanese war a crime, cause that was legit. Took it fair and square.

Nor do I count the treaties illegal, unfair, but not illegal, no one forced anyone to sign, could have fought to the last man.

But what is illegal is any gains not made on the battlefield, which is plenty, and not gotten in a treaty.

Sure buddy.

Why, you think we might want Japan?

 

[Aepsilons]

But what is illegal is any gains not made on the battlefield, which is plenty, and not gotten in a treaty.

I agree with you on this. In fact, I actually want all the war memoriabilia Japan had acquired during the war to be returned.

Black market goods don't make it into Museums, at least not suppose to.

You'll be surprised, buddy.

As to exchanges and such, I did take that into account, and I don't count those as illegal. I don't even count the warship that you took from the first Sino Japanese war a crime, cause that was legit. Took it fair and square.

So, that said, would you say that Japan's acquisition of the Liaodong peninsula, Koreas, and Taiwan as being fair and legit since they were won through war ?

 

[Genesis]

So, that said, would you say that Japan's acquisition of the Liaodong peninsula, Koreas, and Taiwan as being fair and legit since they were won through war ?

Yes, I would, sort of. Liaodong, yes, Korea, no, because you defeated us to be the puppet master of Korea, which is legitimate, but you shouldn't have annexed it, that was illegal.

Taiwan also legal, yes.

Note I mean legal, not fair or what a civilized nation does, but it is what it is.

But you lost it when you lost the war, which also makes it legal.

You'll be surprised, buddy.

well yea, but you shouldn't is what the thing is. I especially added the not suppose to part.

 

[IsaacNewton]

So, that said, would you say that Japan's acquisition of the Liaodong peninsula, Koreas, and Taiwan as being fair and legit since they were won through war ?

I don't necessarily think it is "fair" but it is (was) recognize by international law.