Two Pakistani British Girls Marry Each Other

[livingdead]

Because for some people, kissing is evil, but killing is OK.

(Again...not intended at any particular religion.)

Come on, when there was a big debate on tv about gay, leader of all the three major religion opposed it. The hindu guy kept saying "ye hamare sansriti main nahi hai.. paschatya sabhyata bla bla.."

Its not like hindu clergy exactly excited about it, anglicans are the most tolerant to it.

 

[FireFistAce]

Lesbian marriage.

Opinions.

The first thing I noticed when I saw this post was that your profile picture is a facepalm.
is this a coincidence or what?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Fair enough. In fact I would recommend them to do so. If a shahrukh khan marries a hindu woman, and he openly says that islam is against such things, then what do you think most non muslims (and many muslims) will question? Do you think they will ask why shahrukh did that despite islam being against it, or would they question why islam is against a man marrying a woman he loves from another religion, in the first place?

What would be more of an issue? Shahrukh's act defying islam, or islam being so narrow minded as to prohibit marrying somebody from another religion?

There is no compulsion in religion and Muslim have freedom to practice anything even if it contradict to their Islamic beliefs but Islam is what it is. People should not change Islam according to their whims or wishes otherwise you will have one million different version of Islam based on your personal like or dislike

The issue is justifying the legality of homosexuality in religion when you can clearly read in your scripture that its forbidden so whats the point of making yourself and others fool? I had argument with her on this specific point

 

[janon]

Come on, when there was a big debate on tv about gay, leader of all the three major religion opposed it. The hindu guy kept saying "ye hamare sansriti main nahi hai.. paschatya sabhyata bla bla.."

And that is why I said the last line. Hindus, muslims, christians, there are many religious leaders who subscribe to that view. Christians and muslims will resort to scripture, hindu religious "leaders" would resort to "it's not in our culture" line.

Although of course, it has been there in every culture, for all of recorded history. And by the way, something cannot become part of mainstream culture if you keep opposing it. People like that hindu "leader" have kept lesbians and gays marginalized throughout history, making them lead invisiible lives, and then they have the nerve to say that it's not in our culture.

As if that is a valid reason.

 

[Peregrine]

Ahh one of the signs................we dont have much time, I need to empty my bank account asap.

 

[That Guy]

Why is this even a thing? People can do whatever they want and as long as it doesn't affect me, I couldn't care less. We should be the last ones to judge these two, if they believe in God and Islam, then they believe that will answer to God and Islam.

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41, Number 4910: Narrated AbuHurayrah: "A mukhannath who had dyed his hands and feet with henna was brought to the Prophet. He asked: What is the matter with this man? He was told: Apostle of Allah! he affects women's get-up. So he ordered regarding him and he was banished to an-Naqi'. The people said: Apostle of Allah! should we not kill him? He said: I have been prohibited from killing people who pray."

-Source http://quranmalayalam.com/hadees/abudawud/041.sat.html


I'm guessing the same would apply to women.

 

[janon]

There is no compulsion in religion and Muslim have freedom to practice anything even if it contradict to their Islamic beliefs but Islam is what it is. People should not change Islam according to their whims or wishes otherwise you will have one million different version of Islam based on your personal like or dislike

The issue is justifying the legality of homosexuality in religion when you can clearly read in your scripture that its forbidden so whats the point of making yourself and others fool? I had argument with her on this specific point

Well, most things improve when allowed to change. With religions, especially islam, that is not possible, since muslims believe it to be the true word of god, so it can never be wrong etc etc.

But if something is not allowed to change, then no improvement is possible. For example, in science, it is always stated with pride that theories will be changed if new information comes along. The power of most human knowledge comes from the fact that they were willing to change old ideas if better reasoning came along.

Laws and even constitutions are modified to make them better. So is every branch of knowledge.

Now these people you are talking about may have many reasons to claim that it is OK in islam. One of course, is to gain social acceptability. And this is not new, there are many things, even in islam, where some muslims feel something it islamic, and some feel is unislamic. These homosexual people would still want to consider themselves muslims. Just because they are gay, they wouldnt want to immediately abandon the religion they grew up with. Because religious beliefs are emotional, and they have emotional reasons to keep considering themselves muslims. So they would want to believe that they are not committing a sin by being true to themselves.

Another reason is social acceptability. They would want more people to believe they are not doing anything unislamic, so that they dont face the prejudices and hatred that comes when people think they are defying their religion.

If you think about it, there are many reasons why they would want to argue that it is compatible with islam. (Or whatever religion they follow, if that religion prohibits it.)

 

[Dubious]

Ahh Science again has been made fun of lets see what experts say:

Compulsive homosexuality is a perversion that has its origin very early in the life of the individual. Its beginnings stem from the period when the child's sexual identity is being formed. Serious distortions, which may become irreversible, can occur if during those critical periods the parents fail the child through faulty presentation of polarized mature masculine and feminine identity. This specific perversion is invariably imbedded in a character structure of varying degrees of psychopathology. This psychopathology can best be understood in terms of interpersonal, existential, holistic frames of reference. The homosexual ritual is described as a reparative maneuver for healing a gaping flaw in one's sexual identity; it is an attempt at achieving holism. The driving force for all human beings is meaningful love relationships. In perversion, this underlying drive still pertains, though it often assumes grotesque and bizarre forms.

-The American Journal of Psychoanalysis
1966, Volume 26, Issue 1, pp 46-62

Yea, natural indeed

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v488/n7410/full/488151a.html

If you can't read the article in NATURE here you go a summary about it Biologists take journalists to task for sensationalizing animal sexual behavior headlines
About the authors of the article

The two appear to be most concerned about authors and/or editors that use human terms to describe homosexual relationships between animals, describing them as gay, lesbian or in some cases transgender, when such terms are not just inaccurate, but are in some cases outright wrong. To bolster their case, they include a chart that lists actual titles or phrases used in scientific study papers, and the various ways writers and editors have butchered the words to help increase magazine sales or increase traffic on web sites. One such example: “The Ram as a model for behavioral neuroendocrinology” became “Brokeback Mutton” or “Yep, They’re Gay.” While somewhat humorous, the changes create the illusion that the behaviors exhibited by the real life ram, are somehow the same as those of gay human beings, which is of course utter nonsense because with humans, human emotions are involved, while emotions in animals, if they even really do exist, are not understood at all. But that’s beside the point, the real issue here is journalistic integrity, or the lack of it.

So if someone quotes such crap please do your homework again....Read some RELIABLE sources not where animals are drugged, caged/ or those in a zoo... and whatnot to show they exhibit SUCH behaviour!

 

[livingdead]

Why is this even a thing? People can do whatever they want and as long as it doesn't affect me, I couldn't care less. We should be the last ones to judge these two, if they believe in God and Islam, then they believe that will answer to God and Islam.

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41, Number 4910: Narrated AbuHurayrah: "A mukhannath who had dyed his hands and feet with henna was brought to the Prophet. He asked: What is the matter with this man? He was told: Apostle of Allah! he affects women's get-up. So he ordered regarding him and he was banished to an-Naqi'. The people said: Apostle of Allah! should we not kill him? He said: I have been prohibited from killing people who pray."

-Source Sunan Abu-Dawud Book-41


I'm guessing the same would apply to women.

I guess he was merely a cross dresser.

 

[janon]

Ahh Science again has been made fun of lets see what experts say:

-The American Journal of Psychoanalysis
1966, Volume 26, Issue 1, pp 46-62

Yea, natural indeed

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v488/n7410/full/488151a.html

If you can't read the article in NATURE here you go a summary about it Biologists take journalists to task for sensationalizing animal sexual behavior headlines
About the authors of the article




So if someone quotes such crap please do your homework again....Read some RELIABLE sources not where animals are drugged, caged/ or those in a zoo... and whatnot to show they exhibit SUCH behaviour!

Very, very dishonest of you to quote that, because the american association of psychiatry completely went back on that later. They removed homosexuality from the list of disorders, and concluded in the 90s that it was not a disorder, and that the conclusions reached in the 60s was not done so by any rigorous scientific method, but simply due to the prevalent social attitudes at that time.

You quoted the 1966 manual. In 1977 they updated it, removing that claim, and indeed, everything else that was unscientific but believed regarding homosexuality.

Here is their link:

Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

And what that very same institution says today regarding same sex marriage:

Numerous studies have shown that a significant number of gay men and lesbians are in committed long-term relationships (Bradford, Ryan, & Rothblum, 1994; Falkner & Garber, 2002; Morris, Balsam, & Rothblum, 2002) and that these couples derive increased life satisfaction, enhanced personal meaning and stability from their relationship (Blumstein & Schwartz, 1983; Kertzner, 1999; Peplau & Spalding, 2000). Data from the 2000 U.S. Census indicate that of the 5.5 million cohabitating, unmarried couples, approximately 11% were same-sex couples (United States Census Bureau, 2000). Given the reluctance of many individuals to identify themselves as gay, this is likely a low estimate. In addition, a significant percentage of lesbians and gay men express interest in being legally married (Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, 2001).

http://www.apsa.org/About_APsaA/Position_Statements/Gay_Marriage.aspx

 

[darkinsky]

Ahh Science again has been made fun of lets see what experts say:

-The American Journal of Psychoanalysis
1966, Volume 26, Issue 1, pp 46-62

Yea, natural indeed

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v488/n7410/full/488151a.html

If you can't read the article in NATURE here you go a summary about it Biologists take journalists to task for sensationalizing animal sexual behavior headlines
About the authors of the article




So if someone quotes such crap please do your homework again....Read some RELIABLE sources not where animals are drugged, caged/ or those in a zoo... and whatnot to show they exhibit SUCH behaviour!

so @Talon you like hairy, stinky smelly men, or nice ladies

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Well, most things improve when allowed to change. With religions, especially islam, that is not possible, since muslims believe it to be the true word of god, so it can never be wrong etc etc.

But if something is not allowed to change, then no improvement is possible. For example, in science, it is always stated with pride that theories will be changed if new information comes along. The power of most human knowledge comes from the fact that they were willing to change old ideas if better reasoning came along.

Laws and even constitutions are modified to make them better. So is every branch of knowledge.

Now these people you are talking about may have many reasons to claim that it is OK in islam. One of course, is to gain social acceptability. And this is not new, there are many things, even in islam, where some muslims feel something it islamic, and some feel is unislamic. These homosexual people would still want to consider themselves muslims. Just because they are gay, they wouldnt want to immediately abandon the religion they grew up with. Because religious beliefs are emotional, and they have emotional reasons to keep considering themselves muslims. So they would want to believe that they are not committing a sin by being true to themselves.

Another reason is social acceptability. They would want more people to believe they are not doing anything unislamic, so that they dont face the prejudices and hatred that comes when people think they are defying their religion.

If you think about it, there are many reasons why they would want to argue that it is compatible with islam. (Or whatever religion they follow, if that religion prohibits it.)

Again my friend you are mixing up many concepts here. Religion is all about absolute morals which dont change with time. Religion talk about how you should live your life and it deal with abosulte morality and supernatural concepts while Science is all about study of universe and laws of nature and is based on reasoning, observation and logical explanation of this universe . Religion is based on beliefs while science is based on what you can precise with your five senses.

So it will be fine for a Muslim to say that there is no God/Angels/Hell/heather etc but still claim to be Muslim. You don't believe in God is one thing but to say that believe in God is not necessary in order to be Muslim is another. To be homosexual is one thing but to say that Islamic God approve homosexuality is another. Religious scripture is not your personal notebook or diary where you can add anything which you like and delete anything which you don't like. Its either take it or leave it. There were homosexual people in past, there are in present and there will be in future but scripture will set same rule for them and it will never change

 

[Dubious]

Very, very dishonest of you to quote that, because the american association of psychiatry completely went back on that later. They removed homosexuality from the list of disorders, and concluded in the 90s that it was not a disorder, and that the conclusions reached in the 60s was not done so by any rigorous scientific method, but simply due to the prevalent social attitudes at that time.

You quoted the 1966 manual. In 1977 they updated it, removing that claim, and indeed, everything else that was unscientific but believed regarding homosexuality.

Here is their link:

Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

I quoted from a journal

The American Journal of Psychoanalysis
The American Journal of Psychoanalysis, is an international psychoanalytic quarterly founded in 1941 by Karen Horney. The journal's purpose is to be an international forum for communicating a broad range of contemporary clinical and theoretical concepts of psychoanalysis and for presenting related investigations in allied fields

Please stop reading between the liens...What you posted is an association which ANYONE can join be he/she in the field or not...Be they doing research or not...

so @Talon you like hairy, stinky smelly men, or nice ladies

@darkinsky

 

[livingdead]

so @Talon you like hairy, stinky smelly men, or nice ladies

Pics to help (no offence to anybody, especially altaf bhai, I dont want to die)

 

[janon]

@Talon :

Homosexuality and psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Yes I know it's wikipedia, but most of it is well sourced. You can go to any credible psychological or psychiatric association's website, or the Diagnostic and Statistical manual of mental disorders, which is THE most authoritative textbook for professional psychiatrics. They declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder in the 70s, and you conveniently quoted the manual as it was in 1966.)

From the intro of the wiki page:

Psychology was one of the first disciplines to study homosexuality as a discrete phenomenon. Prior to and throughout most of the 20th century, common standard psychology viewed homosexuality in terms of pathological models as a mental illness. That classification began to be subjected to critical scrutiny in the research, which consistently failed to produce any empirical or scientific basis for regarding homosexuality as a disorder or abnormality. As a result of such accumulated research, professionals in medicine, mental health, and the behavioral and social sciences, opposing the classification of homosexuality as a mental disorder, claimed the conclusion that it was inaccurate, and that the DSM classification reflected untested assumptions that were based on once-prevalent social norms and clinical impressions from unrepresentative samples which consisted of patients seeking therapy and individuals whose conduct brought them into the criminal justice system.[1]

Since the 1970s, the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions globally is that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation, while there remain those who maintain that it is a disorder.[2] In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder. The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed in 1975.[3] Thereafter other major mental health organizations followed and it was finally declassified by the World Health Organization in 1990. Consequently, while some still believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, the current research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality, reflecting the official positions of the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association.