Two Pakistani British Girls Marry Each Other

[Raja.Pakistani]

yes, you avoid it, but what does islam say about it.(their status). A few posts ago, you were saying its not your view but what is sanctioned in islam that you speak about.(post #163)

you are not getting the point there

Is islam allow homosexuality?

Answer is no

what does islam say about it.?

Islam say same as Christianity that they committed a sin

 

[gtrr]

Both girls are educated one is Rehana Kosar who is PHD degree holder live in Lahore and second is Sobia Komal from Kashmir. Britannia Concile objected because these are Muslim girls that's why wedding can not be arranged. But girls pointed that they are young and want to adopt Britannia law and want homosexual marriage

 

[gtrr]

An error has occurred gtrr! You must have 30 posts in order to post links. Your current post count is 0

v=NX6owaPBmVk - uuuuuuuuuuutuuuuuuuube

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Like i said, As far as i know they committed a sin of highest order and they would need to recite Kalma again and say tobah to be considered muslims again, Please do correct me as if i am wrong. Allah knows best.

Edit: Doosray ku kaafir kehnay wala khod sab sai bara kaafir hai ... i have also heard that so again i am not being judgmental here just passing what i have heard, i personally like to stay clear of religious discussions

you need to look at those core beliefs which make a person Muslim

Is being straight one of those core beliefs ?

If homosexuality make you non Muslim then what about pre-martial, extra martial affairs?

we are all human beings who commit sin and then often seek repentance..Just because you commit a sin, doesn't make you non muslim

 

[livingdead]

you are not getting the point there

Is islam allow homosexuality?

Answer is no

what does islam say about it.?

Islam say same as Christianity that they committed a sin

So basically islam says nothing about their status as muslim.
They commit sin, that bit is clear.
The argument about ahmedis not being muslim is they violate the basic tenet of islam. I am trying to ascertain how basic is the rule that homosexuals violate. Is it basic enough to declare them non-muslim?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If it's not against the law, and it's not hurting anybody, then it doesn't bother me.

What laws are you talking about? committing suicide by (consumption of poison) does not HURT anyone either so why the hell is it against the law? These Pakistanis are in UK so their laws applies to them and they are out of the circle of Islam.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

These Pakistanis are in UK so their laws applies to them and they are out of the circle of Islam.

The laws in the UK and America (and in every non-Muslim country) are not a part of Islam.

What laws are you talking about? committing suicide by (consumption of poison) does not HURT anyone either so why the hell is it against the law?

How should I know? The laws are decided by judiciaries in their respective countries. That's why I mentioned both the law and harm to others, since they are not always the same thing.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

So basically islam says nothing about their status as muslim.
They commit sin, that bit is clear.
The argument about ahmedis not being muslim is they violate the basic tenet of islam. I am trying to ascertain how basic is the rule that homosexuals violate. Is it basic enough to declare them non-muslim?

Quran clearly says those who disbelieve in what allah has revealed are disbelievers. Ahmedis believe their leader Mirza ghulam ahmed was a PROPHET and this alone is enough to conclude that they are not muslims. As for homosexuality, i believe if one commits this act thinking that its not illegal is then a not Muslim.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

So basically islam says nothing about their status as muslim.
They commit sin, that bit is clear.
The argument about ahmedis not being muslim is they violate the basic tenet of islam. I am trying to ascertain how basic is the rule that homosexuals violate. Is it basic enough to declare them non-muslim?

Labeling non Muslim to others should not be in hands of layman but in hands of those who are expert of Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh). You will hardly find any Muslim who never committed any sin in his life so if committing one sin take you outside the fold of Islam then you will never find any Muslim there.

I also have different opinions about declaring kafir to Ahmadi by Pakistani state. The difference between Ahmadi and others muslim is that we(mainstream Muslims) are waiting for second coming of Christ(PBUH) and also imam mahdi while ahamdi believe that they have been appeared in form of their mirza ghulam ahmad. We cosnider imam mahdi and Christ as two different personality while they believe mirza is boht Jesus as well as mahdi. We think jesus(PBUH) was not died and they think he traveled to india and was buried in Kashmir and they also attribute certain verses of Quran to mirza ghulam ahmad. They also believe mirza was the likeness of Krishna to attract hindu followers. Its very lengthy debate which need separate topic because they also have two sects and differ to each others in beliefs and practices

The basic requirement for a person to be considered a Muslim are , 1) you believe in oneness of Allah and finality of Prophethood that he(PBUH) is the last messenger of Allah and considering Quran as words of Allah and then believe in rest of the prophets, life hereafter etc. God said in Quran that he can forgive anyone but not those who commit shirk and shirk is when you associate any partners to God.

As far homosexuality and islam concern then read this to get the idea


Religion and homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The laws in the UK and America (and in every non-Muslim country) are not a part of Islam.

Is that what i not said?

How should I know? The laws are decided by judiciaries in their respective countries. That's why I mentioned both the law and harm to others, since they are not always the same thing.

Even though these women are not breaking any laws in their country but they have broken the laws of their religion "if they are muslims" and thus thy are declared nonmuslims.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Even though these women are not breaking any laws in their country but they have broken the laws of their religion "if they are muslims" and thus thy are declared nonmuslims.

Fair enough.

I'm sure you know more about religion than I do, so I'll defer to your knowledge in this case.

 

[Armstrong]

Fair enough.

I'm sure you know more about religion than I do, so I'll defer to your knowledge in this case.

The way I see it :

Two women getting married to each other with me in the middle !

Two men getting married to each other even if I'm a million miles away !

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Is that what i not said?

Even though these women are not breaking any laws in their country but they have broken the laws of their religion "if they are muslims" and thus thy are declared nonmuslims.

Woah, hold your horses. It doesn't work that way

 

[Marshmallow]

 

[livingdead]

Labeling non Muslim to others should not be in hands of layman but in hands of those who are expert of Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh). You will hardly find any Muslim who never committed any sin in his life so if committing one sin take you outside the fold of Islam then you will never find any Muslim there.

I also have different opinions about declaring kafir to Ahmadi by Pakistani state. The difference between Ahmadi and others muslim is that we(mainstream Muslims) are waiting for second coming of Christ(PBUH) and also imam mahdi while ahamdi believe that they have been appeared in form of their mirza ghulam ahmad. We cosnider imam mahdi and Christ as two different personality while they believe mirza is boht Jesus as well as mahdi. We think jesus(PBUH) was not died and they think he traveled to india and was buried in Kashmir and they also attribute certain verses of Quran to mirza ghulam ahmad. They also believe mirza was the likeness of Krishna to attract hindu followers. Its very lengthy debate which need separate topic because they also have two sects and differ to each others in beliefs and practices

The basic requirement for a person to be considered a Muslim are , 1) you believe in oneness of Allah and finality of Prophethood that he(PBUH) is the last messenger of Allah and considering Quran as words of Allah and then believe in rest of the prophets, life hereafter etc. God said in Quran that he can forgive anyone but not those who commit shirk and shirk is when you associate any partners to God.

As far homosexuality and islam concern then read this to get the idea


Religion and homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If I understood you correctly, there is no straight verse that can ascertain somebody is Muslim or not, the same way one can straightforward say lying is unislamic because of chapter xxx verse yyy.
Its some human beings (learned people )who take all these quranic dos and dont and decide which is bare minimum(vitally important) to be considered muslim.

Suppose quran says
1. muslim should/not do x
2. muslim should/not do y
3. muslim should/not do z

Picking which of x, y , z is bare minimum to be called muslim is done by human.(expert)

does quran specify those basic reqirements to be basic?