two murders in india and the need for revolution

[Hindustani78]

If neutral Muslim people like you can come forward...trust me, i will dump RSS for sane people like you...Kudos to you...

RSS is working to unite not only Hindus but making Indian Muslims to understand that they are part of Republic of India.

We just cant forget how many terrorists attacks have took place in our country and how many innocent Indians from all the religions have lost thier lifes.

Being a radical and being an anti national will not make poor muslims rich. I say affluent because we belong to a political family, well-to-do because we are educated and well placed. I am citing this because no one can influence us either by coercion or by throwing money at us. Convent education does not make me a christian unlike what Saudi funded wahabi madrassas are doing all over India. Even Pakistan is feeling the pinch of these wahabi, saudi funded madrassas. Madrassa education does not make one worthy of getting a govt. or a pvt. job and they indulge in the activities what TTP is doing in Pakistan. We tell people of our community to go to govt. schools instead of madrassas. Poverty in India is not confined to muslims alone and so is the riches. If we have Hindu Birla and Ambani then we have Parsi Tata and Muslim Azim Premji, Habil Khorakiwala and Yusuf Hamied etc. This proves that religion is not a factor for riches or poverty. Except for dalits and tribals where their poverty is attributed to their belonging to a particular caste or tribe. Do you know that the richest non-king muslim in the world is from India and his name is Azim Premji?
You are building an opinion about Indian muslims based on some anonymous people on internet. Just imagine if you happenned to meet muslim cricketers, actors, business men, politicians, professionals from India, will they subscribe to the thought process of these disgruntled internet radicals? I know about the ground realities in India better than you. Your ISI tried to cultivate some muslims from the camps of Muzaffar Nagar Riot victims and they could not. They were poor and victim of an anti muslim riot, yet they refused to be anti national. Now you know the reality of the average Joe on Indian street.

Khwaja Abdul Hamied was from Aligarh and was an Indian Nationalist who married a Lithuanian and his son was born in Vilnius, Lithuania , who is current Chairman of Cipla.





President of India, Dr Rajendra Prasad accompanied by Khawaja Abdul Majid (right), Chancellor, Amir-e-Jamia and Prof Mujeeb (left), Vice Chancellor of the Jamia Millia arriving to inaugurate the 40th anniversary of the Jamia Millia Islamia at Okhla.

 

[Kaniska]

How many muslims have you personally interacted with in your school, college, office, neighbourhood? Its easy to pick up one in a million example and lose head. You want me to come forward but I am already there and not hiding. Its your mindset that sees only one fanatic sub-educated guy from a million and then brand the whole million as fanatic, regressive. India is 1.2 billion people and everything here is aplenty. people see what they want to see. You only see Bukhari, Akbaruddin Owaisi and Dawood and i see only pravin togadia, Mutalik and Sadhwi whoever and we both are doomed.

I should be honest to say that i interact with many Indian people who are Muslims and i interact on daily basis....And although they are correct in their own perspective where religion for them dominates than others....where for me it does not....But again...it is perfectly fine if religion for some dominates than the nationhood as long as your religion does not interject the interest of our nation....

And another fact i would like to bring up...I would consider Owasi guy to be more honest than Togadias...sAt least Owasi is a honest and a person who put facts on the table...He is one of the very few Muslim leaders in India, who really raise genuine issues faced by the common Indian Muslim people unlike other Muslim leaders of so called secular parties not the our famous Bukhari from Delhi....You are making a mistake in assuming that whoever is with RSS, they like the idiots like Togadias..and the other nuts of VHP....My perception of RSS is different and i treat VHP and others separately...

 

[Razia Sultana]

I should be honest to say that i interact with many Indian people who are Muslims and i interact on daily basis....And although they are correct in their own perspective where religion for them dominates than others....where for me it does not....But again...it is perfectly fine if religion for some dominates than the nationhood as long as your religion does not interject the interest of our nation....

And another fact i would like to bring up...I would consider Owasi guy to be more honest than Togadias...sAt least Owasi is a honest and a person who put facts on the table...He is one of the very few Muslim leaders in India, who really raise genuine issues faced by the common Indian Muslim people unlike other Muslim leaders of so called secular parties not the our famous Bukhari from Delhi....You are making a mistake in assuming that whoever is with RSS, they like the idiots like Togadias..and the other nuts of VHP....My perception of RSS is different and i treat VHP and others separately...

Muslims in India cant help if their religion originated in a different country. Hindus link their religion with their land and be a religious and a nationalist at the same time and then they expect muslims also to be the same. Like the Hindus have their hearts in char-dham, the muslims have their hearts in Haj and Umrah. Your flags suggest that you know the value of democracy, value of free thinking and value of an opinion. If for me the nation does not come first, it does not make me any less nationalist. India being a secular nation ensures that the national values dont interfere with one's personal faith and there is nothing in any religion that would make its follower go against his own nation.
Even I find Asaduddin Owaisi more mature than his younger sibling Akbaruddin who often uses communal speeches just like Togadia. And did I make any assumption about RSS in my statement?

 

[Kaniska]

Muslims in India cant help if their religion originated in a different country. Hindus link their religion with their land and be a religious and a nationalist at the same time and then they expect muslims also to be the same. Like the Hindus have their hearts in char-dham, the muslims have their hearts in Haj and Umrah. Your flags suggest that you know the value of democracy, value of free thinking and value of an opinion. If for me the nation does not come first, it does not make me any less nationalist. India being a secular nation ensures that the national values dont interfere with one's personal faith and there is nothing in any religion that would make its follower go against his own nation.
Even I find Asaduddin Owaisi more mature than his younger sibling Akbaruddin who often uses communal speeches just like Togadia. And did I make any assumption about RSS in my statement?

It will be long debate...This debate should have been done..when Gandhi decided the fate of the nation...Again, I understand your thought from the highlighted part of your statement...For me, i can easily say, faith comes secondary than my nation....That does not mean i does not love my faith...Rather, i prioritize my nation as more important than my my faith...
Let us leave this topic...I can understand the conclusion of this kind of discussion..

 

[Razia Sultana]

It will be long debate...This debate should have been done..when Gandhi decided the fate of the nation...Again, I understand your thought from the highlighted part of your statement...For me, i can easily say, faith comes secondary than my nation....That does not mean i does not love my faith...Rather, i prioritize my nation as more important than my my faith...
Let us leave this topic...I can understand the conclusion of this kind of discussion..

"Nation first or Religion first"..... this debate is mainly for the muslims of India. Most hindus take a stand of "Nation comes First" mainly to embarrass their muslim compatriots or to put them on defensive. I am a muslim and I have never come across a situation where i have to choose my nation or religion, for me both are complimentary. My nation has never come in the way of my religion nor my religion has ever come in the way of my nation. So why someone should take a hypothetical stand? Its like asking a mother which of her children is more dear to her.

 

[livingdead]

"Nation first or Religion first"..... this debate is mainly for the muslims of India. Most hindus take a stand of "Nation comes First" mainly to embarrass their muslim compatriots or to put them on defensive. I am a muslim and I have never come across a situation where i have to choose my nation or religion, for me both are complimentary. My nation has never come in the way of my religion nor my religion has ever come in the way of my nation. So why someone should take a hypothetical stand? Its like asking a mother which of her children is more dear to her.

when hindus say Indian muslims put religion higher than nation, it means they are more likely to join hands with their coreligionists outside India. Hindus understand why mecca and medina is important is muslims, but the accusation is, muslims will side with KSA in a conflict with India. This is an unfortunate outcome of partition.
Its not merely to put muslims in defensive position, lot of hindus do think muslims are basically fifth columinsts living among us. Bit like japanese were suspected in USA during WW2 or catholics during elizabeth 1.

This belief is more true in areas of communal violence.

 

[Razia Sultana]

when hindus say Indian muslims put religion higher than nation, it means they are more likely to join hands with their coreligionists outside India. Hindus understand why mecca and medina is important is muslims, but the accusation is, muslims will side with KSA in a conflict with India. This is an unfortunate outcome of partition.
Its not merely to put muslims in defensive position, lot of hindus do think muslims are basically fifth columinsts living among us. Bit like japanese were suspected in USA during WW2 or catholics during elizabeth 1.

This belief is more true in areas of communal violence.

Would you ask the same question to an Iranian? For they are muslims too and Mecca and Medina are as sacred to them as to the saudis and Indian muslims. Whatever people may assume but as they say, "shak ka ilaz hakim Lucman ke paas bhi nahi tha." The supporters of 2 nation theory left for Pakistan after partition and those who believed that hindus and muslims can co-exist remained in India. Unfortunately, those hindus who supported 2-nation theory did not get a separate land and they have been trying to disturb the secular fabric of the nation. There are too many hypothetical assumptions which is not a good thing for one's personal health. KSA & UAE are India's biggest business partners and friendly nations. King of SA has been the chief guest of our Republic Day Parade. What are your odds for a war between India and KSA?

 

[livingdead]

Would you ask the same question to an Iranian? For they are muslims too and Mecca and Medina are as sacred to them as to the saudis and Indian muslims. Whatever people may assume but as they say, "shak ka ilaz hakim Lucman ke paas bhi nahi tha." The supporters of 2 nation theory left for Pakistan after partition and those who believed that hindus and muslims can co-exist remained in India. Unfortunately, those hindus who supported 2-nation theory did not get a separate land and they have been trying to disturb the secular fabric of the nation. There are too many hypothetical assumptions which is not a good thing for one's personal health. KSA & UAE are India's biggest business partners and friendly nations. King of SA has been the chief guest of our Republic Day Parade. What are your odds for a war between India and KSA?

nobody suspects which side iranians will be, its quite obvious that they will support their own country(not sure what sunni minority will do there).
In any case I was merely challenging what you implied, hindus say this to put muslims on backfoot and feel ashamed. I think those who say this(regarding loyalty) say it because they believe.
Muslims who stayed back consists of those who believed in idea of India. It also consists of people who were too poor to make any choice, hence stuck wherever they are. And then there are regions which were captured by India by force(specifically hyderabad), those muslims never wanted to be in India in first place and even faught against it. Hyderabadis might have reconciled(who knows), kashmiris never did.(I dont blame them)
The bold bit is slightly threatening, I am sure you did not mean it.

 

[Kaniska]

"Nation first or Religion first"..... this debate is mainly for the muslims of India. Most hindus take a stand of "Nation comes First" mainly to embarrass their muslim compatriots or to put them on defensive. I am a muslim and I have never come across a situation where i have to choose my nation or religion, for me both are complimentary. My nation has never come in the way of my religion nor my religion has ever come in the way of my nation. So why someone should take a hypothetical stand? Its like asking a mother which of her children is more dear to her.

No...it is not for Muslim alone..It is for all citizen in a multi religious nation like India...But certain people feel it questionable because of their stance towards nationalism is different...Yes, even mother chooses which one is better if there is a situation that demands to choose to one from the rest...

 

[Hindustani78]

when hindus say Indian muslims put religion higher than nation, it means they are more likely to join hands with their coreligionists outside India. Hindus understand why mecca and medina is important is muslims, but the accusation is, muslims will side with KSA in a conflict with India. This is an unfortunate outcome of partition.
Its not merely to put muslims in defensive position, lot of hindus do think muslims are basically fifth columinsts living among us. Bit like japanese were suspected in USA during WW2 or catholics during elizabeth 1.

This belief is more true in areas of communal violence.

Seriously Why there would be any war between India and Saudi Arabia ? Both countries are having good relations since the time of Independence.

 

[Razia Sultana]

nobody suspects which side iranians will be, its quite obvious that they will support their own country(not sure what sunni minority will do there).
In any case I was merely challenging what you implied, hindus say this to put muslims on backfoot and feel ashamed. I think those who say this(regarding loyalty) say it because they believe.
Muslims who stayed back consists of those who believed in idea of India. It also consists of people who were too poor to make any choice, hence stuck wherever they are. And then there are regions which were captured by India by force(specifically hyderabad), those muslims never wanted to be in India in first place and even faught against it. Hyderabadis might have reconciled(who knows), kashmiris never did.(I dont blame them)
The bold bit is slightly threatening, I am sure you did not mean it.

When an Indian says he is an Indian the matter ends there. there is no need to ask for his religion and loyalty. Its very sickening. Its akin to a doubting spouse seeking daily assurance on fidelity.
Hyderabad or elsewhere the muslims in India had an opportunity to leave for Pakistan but if they opted to be in India, even if willy nilly, there is hardly any issue about it. You know how politicians play with the emotions of the people. Most muslims were emotionally drawn to muslim league and demand for Pakistan but they could never visualise or foresee themselves moving to a far off land leaving behind their motherland. If Hyderabadis or others were told of the option that to make Pakistan they will have to migrate from their land, perhaps, they would have opposed the move. You know very well that Sania Mirza despite marrying a Pakistani is unwilling to take up pakistani citizenship. And if you know the history of Kashmir and ground realities, you will not make such statement. A bigger challenge was posed by Khalistanis but you will never doubt sikhs because they are part of your hindutva.

There is nothing threatening in my statement as I said that because thinking like a suspicious person or fanatic is not good for one's health both mental and cardiac.

 

[livingdead]

When an Indian says he is an Indian the matter ends there. there is no need to ask for his religion and loyalty. Its very sickening. Its akin to a doubting spouse seeking daily assurance on fidelity.
Hyderabad or elsewhere the muslims in India had an opportunity to leave for Pakistan but if they opted to be in India, even if willy nilly, there is hardly any issue about it. You know how politicians play with the emotions of the people. Most muslims were emotionally drawn to muslim league and demand for Pakistan but they could never visualise or foresee themselves moving to a far off land leaving behind their motherland. If Hyderabadis or others were told of the option that to make Pakistan they will have to migrate from their land, perhaps, they would have opposed the move. You know very well that Sania Mirza despite marrying a Pakistani is unwilling to take up pakistani citizenship. And if you know the history of Kashmir and ground realities, you will not make such statement. A bigger challenge was posed by Khalistanis but you will never doubt sikhs because they are part of your hindutva.

There is nothing threatening in my statement as I said that because thinking like a suspicious person or fanatic is not good for one's health both mental and cardiac.

ok.. whatever..
you are being emotional..

 

[Razia Sultana]

No...it is not for Muslim alone..It is for all citizen in a multi religious nation like India...But certain people feel it questionable because of their stance towards nationalism is different...Yes, even mother chooses which one is better if there is a situation that demands to choose to one from the rest...

So you give the mother an option but not to a citizen. When Hinduism says "vasudhaiva kutumbakam" its an open mindedness of hindus but when muslims talk of islamic brotherhood they become parochial and fanatic. Can you tell me "standard stances of nationalism" and then we can talk about deviation.

 

[Hindustani78]

So you give the mother an option but not to a citizen. When Hinduism says "vasudhaiva kutumbakam" its an open mindedness of hindus but when muslims talk of islamic brotherhood they become parochial and fanatic. Can you tell me "standard stances of nationalism" and then we can talk about deviation.

Allah SWT. is Rabbul Alameen not just Rabbul Muslimeen.

 

[Hindustani78]

No...it is not for Muslim alone..It is for all citizen in a multi religious nation like India...But certain people feel it questionable because of their stance towards nationalism is different...Yes, even mother chooses which one is better if there is a situation that demands to choose to one from the rest...

Hindu-Muslim bonhomie in Bihar town | Siasat
Patna, June 01:
In a rare example of communal harmony, a Hindu man who brought up a Muslim girl for 20 years after she was deserted as a child by her poverty-stricken parents, has now married her to a groom from her own community.

Upendra Gupta, who brought up Shabbo Khatoon as his own daughter, married her to a Muslim boy with Islamic rituals.

Gupta, a resident of Jhanda Chowk in Purnea district, about 400 km from Patna, had found Shabbo 20 years ago when she was just four years old and abandoned by her parents.

He brought her up like his own daughter, but according to Muslim practices.

"Though I brought her up like my daughter, I married her to a Muslim boy keeping in view her religion at the time of her birth. For me, humanity is more important than my religion," Gupta said.

Most of the members in the groom's marriage party were Muslims, while those in the bride's family were Hindus.

People have praised Gupta for his step.

"Gupta has set an example on how to treat people with dignity and respect," said local resident Ghulam Ansari.

Mohd. Azad, another local resident, said if Gupta had wanted he could have brought up Shabbo as a Hindu girl and easily married her to a Hindu boy. "But, for him, humanity is above anything," he said.

---IANS