I totally understandable...India's situation is totally untenable as your govt and army have not given you guys any room to play, they denied to show any sort of proof of their "sir jee kal" strikes and they failed miserably to provide Indian people anything to do true chest thumping and then this last face off with freedom fighters for three days has totally destroyed the morale and national dignity..so I can understand the predicament....but situation may become better in future though currently the situation is not that rosy.
This will be my final attempt at trying to drive some sense into an otherwise useless discourse, without assuming that you are indulging in nothing more than trolling. I say trolling, not because of any problem in defensibility of my position, but because of the fact that no serious discussion on a
Defence Forum can be undertaken when you try to limit the discourse to your own interpretation of operational doctrine of any other organisation.
1. You may have come across what is now being touted as
Operation Ginger conducted by Indian Army on 29 Aug 2011. This is an operation about which I have mentioned on
numerous occasions on this very forum, over a span of 18-24 months and earlier too. You will have to look for the posts as earlier one could trace all their posts, but it has been discontinued to most recent ones for sometime now. So, either this is still a figment of imagination or I do wield substantial clout in Indian Army and Media that this has come out in newspaper. One more option is there, but that may not suit your narrative nor the frame of mind, that of it being a fact. However, I leave it to your intelligence and better judgement to reach an informed conclusion.
2. You can continue with the delinquency of “Sir jee kal”, it is absolutely your wish to continue indulging in ridiculous behaviour or indeed learn/share on defence matters in a defence forum. However, unlike some members here, who have absolutely no clue of issues, the term
surgical strikes denotes specific strikes undertaken towards specific target and objectives, limiting the spread of conflict and collateral damage. It is intended to attain defined operational objectives. These are invariably at tactical level insofar the aims are concerned. I have seen certain ‘highly informed’ members claim it to be an exclusive air strike. It is this propensity to assume another organisation’s operational doctrinal nuances that I have alluded to in my opening paragraph. A narrative, to suit your own ideas, without understanding.
3. Irrespective of whatever, the stupidity of people of the sub-continent can be gauged from this forum itself. Lack of knowledge and propensity to ignore/deny and instead, indulge in chest thumping. The politicians and media in India acted irresponsibly, there is no other view about it, as far as I am concerned. The stupidity has been ably reciprocated by Pakistanis, again, something that I have no second opinion about.
4. Let me spell out something for you. The official statement of GoI says that
surgical strikes were conducted along LOC. The official statement of GoP was that they
deny any surgical strikes. Only cross LOC firing occurred in the period and the same was responded to by Pakistani Forces.
From the above, what do you think is being conveyed? The GoI has exactly left the loop open for GoP to deny the claim. Why do you think that it has happened? A blunder? Or a mistake? Or is there some sense to it? What happens if India claims conduct of strikes ‘deep in to Pakistani controlled territory’? Will that not create the passions in Pakistan wherein GoP has no manoeuvring space left? Will that not force Pakistani Army to retaliate with the associated risks of a wider war?
Why do you think that GoP has denied ‘surgical strikes’ (because for people like some brainy ones here, it is only an air strike) and instead accepted increased firing along LOC? Does it make sense? Does it not allow for conflict management rather than downright loss of control over the war hysteria if GoP concedes a strike and vows retaliation?
5. Strikes were conducted. At launch pads selectively. Nothing new in it than the fact that GoI has taken a political ownership of the same. Why do you think that US and others have not refuted Indian claims till date? Is it because certain videos and footage was shared with these countries in their briefing? Would it make sense for US to allow a situation to become as grim as it has? I think not. Irrespective of certain paranoid personalities here, US still has no interest whatsoever in destabilising Pakistan and destroying it. It is counter-productive for US aims. Let us be very clear on that. Why is Pakistan being told to tackle terror especially with respect to LeT and JeM? Why not, indeed, has US said no strikes took place and now both sides should de-escalate situation quickly?
6. For India and for others, PA is the problem. As long as you have people working in order to ensure their own perks and pre-dominance, and undercutting democracy and democratic institutions in Pakistan, nothing will be achieved. In India, the Chief is summoned to PM’s office, in Pakistan, the PM runs to Chief’s office. What a hilarity! Gen Kiyani is infamous for enriching himself. How had he managed that? Why would anyone in army give way to Democracy and civil control when they enjoy so many perks and privileges? Maybe, you need to look at the overall narrative. I have my severe doubts about general populace of Pakistan being eager for a war with India and totally refusing peace and opposing all moves towards everlasting peace. In this background, what sense will it make for India to release videos/photos? It shall be counter productive. I would, and here I think you can assume this is the same view as GoI, rather have you laugh at it and not believe it than try and prove it occurred. The message has been delivered where it was required. The necessary actions are being taken by GoP and PA. The Dawn news which you were so quick to trash - think over it very carefully. Look at the international statements. Draw your own conclusions.
War, my friend, is diplomacy by other means as per
Clausewitz. And
Sun Tzu teaches never to go to war as the risks are too big. There are better ways.
I admire the Chinese. You really need to think about the Chinese way of looking at things. China will engage with both nations. It will stand by you to dissuade an Indian attack (it has its interests to look after) and it will engage with India to ensure it keeps India adequately humoured for its larger strategic aims. But it shall ensure that India and Pakistan keep getting bogged down. A war, for China, will be a disaster for both nations and its own interests. (India is a very large market for its wares and Pakistan a crucial part of its’ larger strategic interests). If you look at things from Chinese perspective, you will understand the present situation much better.
As for why we surrounded the building in Pampore? I will simplify the logic for you a bit - why do you use stand off weapons? Why not send in your aircraft?
Same principle. We have limitless supply of ammunition as the force which has cordoned the building. We can expend ammunition at a rate where the cut off force is forced to retaliate and in the process runs out of its ammunition. What is the hurry? We did not want to loose men in a hurried operation.
It is the difference between a hasty attack and a deliberate attack … ask your professionals off forum. They will understand the logic. For keyboard warriors, it is impossible to appreciate as in Call of Duty you charge up the stairs getting hit and kill all the adversaries and then pick up health!!!
Sorry for being blunt, but I have had enough of stupidity being passed as logic being used to quote me.
