Twin Blasts in Quetta, 15 dead

[President Camacho]

Just because the USIP says it does not make it an established fact. If today is anything to go by, you can see that Pakistan does not want to do anything with the Taliban/Al-Qaeda, & neither the vice versa. Pakistan views the Taliban/Al-Qaeda as the enemy, Quetta has been a victim of terrorism from Kandahar; & these are the facts. Maybe you're the one that doesn't want to look at established facts, such as how 500 Taliban fighters somehow 'suddenly disappeared' out of thin air from the Kandahar prison a few months ago.

You have said it time and again that the news is all lies, analysis is all lies, everything that talks of the PA's design is all lies. Then what are the facts, and what are your sources?

All you did was, read USIP which contained the term "United States", and you made up your mind. Before writing your reply you did not even bother to click on the link, did you?

Because if you had clicked on the link, you would not have said what you just did, which is completely absurd - It is not the USIP that is saying all this. USIP is reporting what has been said by the "elites" of Pakistan!

Please read the report to see who, in actuality, is it, who is talking of Quetta Shura's stake in post 2014 Afghanistan's central government.

Who do you think is talking about an inclusive government and decentralized Afghanistan? USIP? No! It is Pakistani elites, that were sent by Pakistani government and the establishment to take part in that months long brainstorming!

 

[notsuperstitious]

You are so quick to make cheap comments and insinuations on the dehli bombings making sneaky cheap remarks about pakistan and terrorism and then you are on here asking us to wait for the investigation? Why one rule for one and a different one for you. Its people like you that tend to speculate that create issues and disharmony.
Yes lets wait till an investigation has taken place for BOTH atrocities and not single one out and speculate.

I did not say on the delhi attack thread that pakistan did it. It was this pakistani gentleman who brought in other countries as he's always trying to prove indian terrorism problem is growing. ask him.

When I replied to that, all these gentlemen here who are talking of afghanistan here told me not to mention pakistan, even when i did not accuse pakistan for the delhi attack (however it may seem so because it was mentioned on that particular thread).

So whats with the hypocricy?

And we don't need RIP from a clown like you. Grow up, be mature and then show your condolences. Your RIP is like a disrespect for these 20 martyrs.

Oh, so you found that like your own RIP on the delhi thread right after thanking China for protecting terrorists in UNSC? Awe, did I hurt your feelings?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...china-wall-anti-terror-talks.html#post2086045

On second thoughts you won as you managed to drag me down to your level, even though I'm not a terrorist sympathiser like you.

 

[53fd]

You have said it time and again that the news is all lies, analysis is all lies, everything that talks of the PA's design is all lies. Then what are the facts, and what are your sources?

All you did was, read USIP which contained the term "United States", and you made up your mind. Before writing your reply you did not even bother to click on the link, did you?

Because if you had clicked on the link, you would not have said what you just did, which is completely absurd - It is not the USIP that is saying all this. USIP is reporting what has been said by the "elites" of Pakistan!

Please read the report to see who, in actuality, is it who is talking of Quetta Shura's stake in post 2014 Afghanistan's central government.

Who do you think is talking about an inclusive government and decentralized Afghanistan? USIP? No! It is Pakistani elites, that were sent by Pakistani government and the establishment to take part in that months long brainstorming!

No, I am not basing my opinion on what a think tank thinks, I am basing my opinion on real-time events, factual events. Even the Taliban has admitted Mullah Umar is in Kandahar, not in Pakistan; despite the repeated efforts of think tanks who suggest otherwise. Please, if you can talk about real events that have transpired, rather than the rhetoric & baseless speculation & propaganda generated by think tanks, our discussions could be much more productive.

All events on the ground indicate Pakistan looks at the Taliban, Al-Qaeda as the enemy; & cannot even think of using them as leverage, as it has no control over them. Just look at today. If Mullah Umar had any sympathies for Pakistan, he would have stopped ordering Afghan terrorists that infiltrate from Kandahar to Pakistan to stop killing innocent people. After all, Mullah Umar is the Ameer-al-Momineen to these terrorists, Kandahar is his hometown, this is the headquarters of the Taliban, he exerts incredible influence over all the terrorists. But infiltration from Afghanistan, & the attacks against Quetta & other Western Pakistan cities bordering Afghanistan keep on happening.

 

[kawaraj]

WTF, again?

RIP and Quick Recovery to those wounded.

 

[President Camacho]

No, I am not basing my opinion on what a think tank thinks, I am basing my opinion on real-time events, factual events.

Even the Taliban has admitted Mullah Umar is in Kandahar, not in Pakistan; despite the repeated efforts of think tanks who suggest otherwise. Please, if you can talk about real events that have transpired, rather than the rhetoric & baseless speculation & propaganda generated by think tanks, our discussions could be much more productive.

And how do you get to know of your "factual events"? By reading the news that you fancy calling a lie?

Those 500 Talibanis escaping from Afghan prison - you came to know of it through the news, because I am sure you were not there at the prison to watch it all happen. Why don't you call it a lie?

The explosions going on in Pakistan and people dying, you are not there to see it. You come to know of it through news - why don't you call it a lie?

The TTP is harming Pakistan you say, but you only come to know of it through news, why don't you call it a lie? Just say its a lie, and TTP is the best friend of Pakistan.

You are believing only that news, that you wish is true. While the ones that go against your own hopes, you prefer to take them as lies.

The team that participated in the USIP report is none but Pakistan's very own foreign policy elites. Whether you believe it or not.

And please do not talk about Mullah Umar or Mehsuds; the Talibans and TTPs are not just those icons. Holistically taken, they are loosely connected factions spread all over from Kandahar to Paktika to Kunar to KPK to Quetta to Punjab.

 

[53fd]

And how do you get to know of your "factual events"? By reading the news that you fancy calling a lie?

Those 500 Talibanis escaping from Afghan prison - you came to know of it through the news, because I am sure you were not there at the prison to watch it all happen. Why don't you call it a lie?

Because these are actual events that transpired. Speculating like think tanks do about what the end game in Afghanistan would be are not real events that have transpired, there is a big difference. Most think tanks speculate baselessly. If the events of recent times are anything to go by, they just show Pakistan has no control over any terrorists, forget about even thinking about using them as leverage. Just look at the number of foiled attempts (more than the attempts in Afghanistan, in the thousands), & 'successful ones' by these terrorists. In fact, real events that have transpired (as opposed to the baseless speculation you quote) show the Afghans have been using these terrorists against Pakistan.

The team that participated in the USIP report is none but Pakistan's very own foreign policy elites. Whether you believe it or not.

Who says that? The top Pakistan Army officials have repeatedly said publicly that they have been misquoted, or that baseless propaganda has been shamelessly generated by the Western media against them. Looking at the events that have transpired recently, they are correct.

All events on the ground indicate Pakistan looks at the Taliban, Al-Qaeda as the enemy; & cannot even think of using them as leverage, as it has no control over them. Just look at today. If Mullah Umar had any sympathies for Pakistan, he would have ordered Afghan terrorists that infiltrate from Kandahar to Pakistan to stop killing innocent people. After all, Mullah Umar is the Ameer-al-Momineen to these terrorists, Kandahar is his hometown, this is the headquarters of the Taliban, he exerts incredible influence over all the terrorists. But infiltration from Afghanistan, & the attacks against Quetta & other Western Pakistan cities bordering Afghanistan keep on happening.

 

[Aslan]

Because these are actual events that transpired. Speculating like think tanks do about what the end game in Afghanistan would be are not real events that have transpired, there is a big difference. Most think tanks speculate baselessly. If the events of recent times are anything to go by, they just show Pakistan has no control over any terrorists, forget about even thinking about using them as leverage. Just look at the number of foiled attempts (more than the attempts in Afghanistan, in the thousands), & 'successful ones' by these terrorists. In fact, real events that have transpired (as opposed to the baseless speculation you quote) show the Afghans have been using these terrorists against Pakistan.



Who says that? The top Pakistan Army officials have repeatedly said publicly that they have been misquoted, or that baseless propaganda has been shamelessly generated by the Western media against them. Looking at the events that have transpired recently, they are correct.

All events on the ground indicate Pakistan looks at the Taliban, Al-Qaeda as the enemy; & cannot even think of using them as leverage, as it has no control over them. Just look at today. If Mullah Umar had any sympathies for Pakistan, he would have ordered Afghan terrorists that infiltrate from Kandahar to Pakistan to stop killing innocent people. After all, Mullah Umar is the Ameer-al-Momineen to these terrorists, Kandahar is his hometown, this is the headquarters of the Taliban, he exerts incredible influence over all the terrorists. But infiltration from Afghanistan, & the attacks against Quetta & other Western Pakistan cities bordering Afghanistan keep on happening.

Billal let them be they are the kind who will sit on a pile of bodies and still try to score some sh!t points.

 

[53fd]

Billal let them be they are the kind who will sit on a pile of bodies and still try to score some sh!t points.

You know what really disappoints me? Most Pakistanis (except for a very few) go to the Delhi thread, just like we went to the Mumbai threads, & genuinely pay their condolences for the innocent people who got killed at the hands of the terrorists, but when innocent Pakistanis die, no one here gives these innocent victims the respect they deserve, & many people almost gloat about it. It's not a moment to rejoice when innocent Pakistanis or Indians get killed, it's an extremely inexplicably tragic moment.

 

[President Camacho]

Because these are actual events that transpired. Speculating like think tanks do about what the end game in Afghanistan would be are not real events that have transpired, there is a big difference. Most think tanks speculate baselessly. If the events of recent times are anything to go by, they just show Pakistan has no control over any terrorists, forget about even thinking about using them as leverage. Just look at the number of foiled attempts (in the thousands), & 'successful ones' by these terrorists. In fact, real events that have transpired (as opposed to the baseless speculation you quote) show the Afghans have been using these terrorists against Pakistan.

Can you prove of a single major attack on Pakistani soil that was the deed of the Haqqani Network?

Or, can you show of a single instance where someone important from the Haqqani Network was apprehended or killed by the Pakistani forces?

While grouped safely inside Pakistan, the Haqqani Network has launched major lethal attacks inside Afghanistan, not one but many.

And most of the losses incurred to Haqqani Network (Omar Haqqani, and others) were either the blessings of the drones, or of the NATO offensive. Not any offensive by the Pakistani forces.

Now, I would like you to show me instances where the Afghan Taliban has launched attacks in Pakistan, or at least taken the credit for.

 

[Aslan]

You know what the sad part is? Most Pakistanis go to the Delhi thread, just like we went to the Mumbai threads, & genuinely pay their condolences for the innocent people who got killed at the hands of the terrorists, but when innocent Pakistanis die, no one here gives these innocent victims the respect they deserve, & many people almost gloat about it.

I am sorry that Delhi happened, I feel bad that people who had nothing to do with anything died, families suffered, but I am not going to write a thing on that thread, because one they dont leave my country alone in the time like this, they dont respect our dead, and when we shoe sympathies to them, they dont take it as a serious effort on our part even though we are but! they dont. So I would rather feel sorry say the prayers in my Heart as Allah knows my intentions. Rather then trying to show it to some wana be fools and get into an argument, because they cant look beyond your Pakistani flag. And then they also have it in them to call us delusional.

 

[President Camacho]

You know what really disappoints me? Most Pakistanis (except for a very few) go to the Delhi thread, just like we went to the Mumbai threads, & genuinely pay their condolences for the innocent people who got killed at the hands of the terrorists, but when innocent Pakistanis die, no one here gives these innocent victims the respect they deserve, & many people almost gloat about it. It's not a moment to rejoice when innocent Pakistanis or Indians get killed, it's an extremely inexplicably tragic moment.

Do not be mistaken Bilal, I do not practice any Abrahamic religion, and my beliefs are different from yours, so for me "RIP" means nothing. I have my own ways to feel for the dead, which I do feel, same for the dead victims, as for the dead attackers.

I do not go on to different threads to write a "RIP" which none of the victims' families will ever read. My sympathies are my business. Please do not judge others so quickly.

And before you wonder why I wrote this to you, you should understand that your concerns are a response to a post that talked to you with regard to my discussions with you.

 

[53fd]

Can you prove of a single major attack on Pakistani soil that was the deed of the Haqqani Network?

Sure:

Although, TTP and Haqqani Network are not on the same page, yet, Haqqani’s militants have not even spared Pakistanis and its installations during their terrorist activities. As revealed from the two arrested men of this network, 200 suicide bombers were infiltrated into various cities of Pakistan by this network for deadly bombing, including the suicide ones, which of course is not a favour to Pakistan.

Haqqani Network: How US Exploits Pakistan | Opinion Maker

According to the Ahlul Bayt News Agency of Iran, 25 Shias have been killed and 80 others injured In the Parachinar area in the Kurram Agency of the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan during the last two weeks following attacks by members of the Haqqani network of the Afghan Taliban on the Kheyvas village in the Shaluzan Mountains. It claimed that the Shias put up a fierce resistance to the attack and managed to kill 10 members of the Taliban, including two commanders of the Haqqani network.

Or, can you show of a single instance where someone important from the Haqqani Network was apprehended or killed by the Pakistani forces?

Sure:

Pakistan to launch offensive against Haqqani Network in North Waziristan - The National

While grouped safely inside Pakistan, the Haqqani Network has launched major lethal attacks inside Afghanistan, not one but many.

Almost all of the attacks taking place in Pakistan's Western border regions come from Afghanistan, because Afghanistan has provided safe havens to The Mehsuds, Molvi Faqir Mohammed, Abdul Wali, Qari Zia Rehman, Mangal Bagh of Lashkr-e-Islam, Maulana Fazlullah, Mullah Nazir etc. Not all of these people are the TTP btw, many of them are the Afghan Taliban.

Now, I would like you to show me instances where the Afghan Taliban has launched attacks in Pakistan, or at least taken the credit for.

Are you kidding me? Where have you been all these past few months with all the cross-border infiltration from hundreds of Afghani terrorists inside Pakistan?

 

[53fd]

Do not be mistaken Bilal, I do not practice any Abrahamic religion, and my beliefs are different from yours, so for me "RIP" means nothing. I have my own ways to feel for the dead, which I do feel, same for the dead victims, as for the dead attackers.

I do not go on to different threads to write a "RIP" which none of the victims' families will ever read. My sympathies are my business. Please do not judge others so quickly.

And before you wonder why I wrote this to you, you should understand that your concerns are a response to a post that talked to you with regard to my discussions with you.

I wasn't referring to you when I wrote that post, there are many others that resort to certain one-liners (or 'two-liners') about Pakistan on threads like these where tragedy strikes Pakistan. You can see that happening all over this forum. It's not even about religion, just a little bit of humanity. I have nothing against sensible discussions, but there are too many people here that jump on the bandwagon.

 

[President Camacho]

Sure:



Haqqani Network: How US Exploits Pakistan | Opinion Maker

I expected something better than this from you. After all, it is you who cannot even believe the news, but when time comes, you bolster your position with nothing better than the opinion of an unknown Associate Professor from Karachi? I though you were very much against opinions/analyses/speculations etc?

In his entire 3000 word strong opinion, all he could say was that Haqqani Network infiltrated Pakistani cities with 200 suicide bombers - utter lie. Haqqani Network never owned up any suicide bombings inside Pakistan, and even threatened to cut its ties with the TTP because of TTP's targeting Pakistani cities. That is the main reason behind the rift between TTP and Haqqani.

Haqqani wants to attack Afghanistan (NATO), TTP wants to attack Pakistan.

Sure:

Pakistan to launch offensive against Haqqani Network in North Waziristan - The National



Almost all of the attacks taking place in Pakistan's Western border regions come from Afghanistan, because Afghanistan has provided safe havens to The Mehsuds, Molvi Faqir Mohammed, Abdul Wali, Qari Zia Rehman, Mangal Bagh of Lashkr-e-Islam, Maulana Fazlullah, Mullah Nazir etc. Not all of these people are the TTP btw, many of them are the Afghan Taliban.

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

Perhaps you tried to read my post a bit too fast. When the aid provider US asks Pakistan to do more, then of course Pakistan has to show something, right? Just a formal exercise, but something has to be there. That's all it is.

So this is what I asked you for: Or, can you show of a single instance where someone important from the Haqqani Network was apprehended or killed by the Pakistani forces?

The bold part is the keyword. Otherwise, any Tom, Dick, or Harry can be arrested or killed and be called a part of Haqqani Network. The proof comes when some definite or important member is taken away.

The NATO, a foreign force, can do it time and again inside Afghanistan, but a powerful local Pakistani Army cannot do it within Pakistan? It is not incompetence, it is collusion.

 

[Areesh]

Oh, so you found that like your own RIP on the delhi thread right after thanking China for protecting terrorists in UNSC? Awe, did I hurt your feelings?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...china-wall-anti-terror-talks.html#post2086045

China supports us and we would obviously appreciate it. You have something worthy to prove give it to China. They might revise their decision despite your support to Dalai Lama and so called Tibet exiled govt. Your Blah Blah wasn't satisfactory for Chinese, better luck next time.

On second thoughts you won as you managed to drag me down to your level, even though I'm not a terrorist sympathiser like you.

Considering your views on different issues particularly concerning Pakistan your claim of not being a terrorist sympathizer is as hypocritical as you as a human are. As for the hurting me no you didn't hurt me, it is like I consider it as an insult when someone like you says RIP for our martyrs. And I don't like someone who insults our martyrs.

---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------

You know what really disappoints me? Most Pakistanis (except for a very few) go to the Delhi thread, just like we went to the Mumbai threads, & genuinely pay their condolences for the innocent people who got killed at the hands of the terrorists, but when innocent Pakistanis die, no one here gives these innocent victims the respect they deserve, & many people almost gloat about it. It's not a moment to rejoice when innocent Pakistanis or Indians get killed, it's an extremely inexplicably tragic moment.

Well it doesn't disappoints me. Tells me about the psychology and upbringing of a nation. Just confirms me that what I always heard about this nation is true indeed.