TrMhMt
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Turkish silent oppression of Kurds
- Thread starter Serpentine
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TheCommander
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@Kollang;
I would discuss with you about the terrorist PKK and kurdish issue, however what I realized was it is almost impossible to discuss with Iranians because you guys react so quickly without thinking (there is a few exceptions). If the topic is about your country, you start insulting the people who are opposed (Do not tell me there are some turkish members who also insult you. I saw enough posts about insulting mostly you started and you made some members angry so that they could not hold themselves).
I am not generalizing that all Iranians racist or do not know how to discuss. But I have seen enough people and as I said it is really hard to discuss with you in a proper way. That is why I stop discussing with you.
@Era_923, this source you used is showing how sincere you are!!! My advise you to go the Firat news or Roj TV (the terrorist PKK news agency and TV channel) and you can find more more interesting things. After that you can learn how to lie, manipulate, misinform people. I know posting some good sourced information will not change your mind. I also know why you are posting such a thing to cover up your assimilation policy on the Azeri Turks. But there is a clear fact the Azeri Turks are not armed and do not kill innocent people, on the other hand, the terrorist PKK are armed and killed and kill thousands innocent people including kurdish people. So basically your logic is totally wrong but you already knew this anyway huh Era_923? I guess you follow this strategy "The best defense is the attack"
I would discuss with you about the terrorist PKK and kurdish issue, however what I realized was it is almost impossible to discuss with Iranians because you guys react so quickly without thinking (there is a few exceptions). If the topic is about your country, you start insulting the people who are opposed (Do not tell me there are some turkish members who also insult you. I saw enough posts about insulting mostly you started and you made some members angry so that they could not hold themselves).
I am not generalizing that all Iranians racist or do not know how to discuss. But I have seen enough people and as I said it is really hard to discuss with you in a proper way. That is why I stop discussing with you.
@Era_923, this source you used is showing how sincere you are!!! My advise you to go the Firat news or Roj TV (the terrorist PKK news agency and TV channel) and you can find more more interesting things. After that you can learn how to lie, manipulate, misinform people. I know posting some good sourced information will not change your mind. I also know why you are posting such a thing to cover up your assimilation policy on the Azeri Turks. But there is a clear fact the Azeri Turks are not armed and do not kill innocent people, on the other hand, the terrorist PKK are armed and killed and kill thousands innocent people including kurdish people. So basically your logic is totally wrong but you already knew this anyway huh Era_923? I guess you follow this strategy "The best defense is the attack"
TheCommander
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Secret victims of terrorist PKK: child militants
Sami was 14 when he joined the ranks of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK). He first met with the urban wing of the terrorist organization and then found himself in the PKK camps. He joined the PKK mostly because of arguments claiming that “Kurds are oppressed and discriminated against in Turkey.”
Yet he decided to part ways with the terrorist organization after seeing the life in the mountains and distorted relations among the members of the PKK. He eventually managed to escape from the PKK camps. According to Sami, an equal number of people want to leave the ranks of the PKK as want to join them. “It is a matter of chance if those trying to flee the PKK camps survive. It is difficult to leave, and the moment you are captured, you are executed. Many of my friends who wanted to flee the camps were killed. It is particularly the children and teenagers who want to escape,” said Sami.
The statements of the young boy only begin to explain the plight of the child militants in the ranks of the PKK, which was brought into the spotlight by the 2012 Human Rights Report of the United States State Department.
According to the report, the PKK, which has been waging a bloody campaign in Turkey’s Southeast since 1984, regularly recruits children, and 36 percent of its members of under the age of 18.
The use of children as terrorists both in cities and mountains by the PKK is an issue which escapes public attention. The pro-Kurdish Peace and Democracy Party (BDP), which capitalizes on any incident involving children, opts to remain silent when it comes to the young children recruited to fight for the PKK.
Some human rights groups, intellectuals and writers who bring various problems involving children such as child abuse, child labor, violence against children or child marriage to the public’s attention are also conspicuously quiet when it comes to the situation of child militants in the PKK.
Attorney Serdar Bülent Yılmaz, the head of the Diyarbakır branch of the Freedom Association (Özgür-Der), regrets the fact that although the issue of child warriors is a problem the world has been trying to address for many years, the children recruited by the PKK go unnoticed in Turkey and no one brings their misery to the public’s attention. “I personally became aware of this issue when I saw the bodies of children who joined the PKK in Pertek [in Tunceli province] in 1992 that had been killed within a week or so. This incident sparked outrage among families whose children had joined the PKK and led to a significant fall in the number of children joining the terrorist organization. So I think families of these children should speak out first and openly criticize the PKK,” said Yılmaz.
Recruiting “child warriors” is among the crimes against humanity and considered a violation of a fundamental human right, according to international laws and conventions. The Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict, which was adopted by the UN General Assembly on May 25, 2000, and came into force on Feb. 12, 2002, sets 18 as the minimum age for direct participation in hostilities, for recruitment into armed groups and for compulsory recruitment by governments.
Article 4 of the protocol states that “armed groups that are distinct from the armed forces of a State should not, under any circumstances, recruit or use in hostilities persons under the age of 18 years and that States Parties shall take all feasible measures to prevent such recruitment and use, including the adoption of legal measures necessary to prohibit and criminalize such practices.”
Former Liberian President Charles Taylor was convicted in April of war crimes and crimes against humanity before the United Nations Special Court for Sierra Leone. The court found Taylor guilty of the war crime of using child soldiers in addition to terrorizing civilians, murder, outrages of personal dignity, cruel treatment and looting.
Taylor played a crucial role in the armed conflict in Sierra Leone, orchestrating and conducting violent operations that utilized child soldiers.
Taylor’s conviction suggests that leaders of the PKK and the Kurdistan Communities Union (KCK), an umbrella organization that encompasses the PKK, may be tried before an international court one day for recruiting child militants and that they may be convicted.
According to sources from the PKK, half of the PKK militants based in its camps are under the age of 18 while the youngest PKK militant is an 8-year-old boy referred to as “K.”
Recruitment of children by the PKK has significantly increased since 1990, according to data from the police, gendarmerie and depositions of ex-PKK members. Fifty-nine percent of the child recruits in the PKK are boys while 41 percent are girls. Twenty-five percent of the children who joined the ranks of the PKK managed to flee its camps while there is no clear information about the fate of the 75 percent of the children that remain in the camps. Yet it is known that around half of the children who join the ranks of the terrorist organization lose their lives within two or three years, either in armed conflicts or due to intra-PKK executions or disease. It is possible to explain the reason behind the interest of children in becoming PKK militants with the KCK contract (which is regarded by the outlawed Kurdish National Congress [also known as the Kongra-Gel, the so-called legislative organ of the PKK] as the constitution of the organization), according to which every Kurd is a citizen of the KCK. This contract states that every citizen is obliged to pay taxes to the state and provide it with “soldiers.” If a family is not rich enough to pay taxes to the KCK, they are supposed to send one of their children to the PKK camps or give them to the urban service of the PKK. Although the number of voluntary child militants was high in the past, a survey recently conducted by the police among former PKK members showed that 70 percent of ex-PKK members had been coerced into joining, 19 percent of them had been tricked into joining, while 11 percent of them joined the PKK because a relative had previously joined the terrorist organization.
T.Y., a former PKK member who surrendered to security forces in May, told the authorities that the average age of PKK militants has fallen to as low as 12.
Another PKK fugitive, Z.T., said the main problem of the child militants in the PKK camps is being subjected to sexual harassment and rape.
“Both girls and boys are subjected to sexual harassment and rape. I witnessed at least 15 such cases. Older militants rape younger militant girls and threaten them to keep quiet about it. As long as such incidents are not uncovered, there is no problem. Some older militants carry condoms with them because pregnant militants would be burdensome. Young militant boys are subjected to rape or harassment in the same way. The abuser is sometimes a man, sometimes a woman,” said Z.T.According to İbrahim Güçlü, a Kurdish politician, the PKK’s recruitment of underage militia is not a new problem as it is a part of its fundamental ideological, cultural and social discourse.
“The PKK promises an independent and free Kurdistan by taking children to the PKK camps in the mountains, deceiving them with certain promises and brainwashing of children. It is employing the same political discourse today,” said Güçlü.
He also regretted the fact that Turkish politicians and intellectuals have failed to bring the issue of the PKK’s child militants to public attention.
A former PKK member, Şükrü Gümüş, said the order for recruitment of underage militia was given by the PKK’s jailed leader, Abdullah Öcalan, who once told top PKK operatives, “Bring me 14-year-old children.”
Captured in 1999, Öcalan has been serving a life sentence on İmralı island in the Sea of Marmara since then.
******************
You see how crucial, how godless this KCK/PKK is.
Sami was 14 when he joined the ranks of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK). He first met with the urban wing of the terrorist organization and then found himself in the PKK camps. He joined the PKK mostly because of arguments claiming that “Kurds are oppressed and discriminated against in Turkey.”
Yet he decided to part ways with the terrorist organization after seeing the life in the mountains and distorted relations among the members of the PKK. He eventually managed to escape from the PKK camps. According to Sami, an equal number of people want to leave the ranks of the PKK as want to join them. “It is a matter of chance if those trying to flee the PKK camps survive. It is difficult to leave, and the moment you are captured, you are executed. Many of my friends who wanted to flee the camps were killed. It is particularly the children and teenagers who want to escape,” said Sami.
The statements of the young boy only begin to explain the plight of the child militants in the ranks of the PKK, which was brought into the spotlight by the 2012 Human Rights Report of the United States State Department.
According to the report, the PKK, which has been waging a bloody campaign in Turkey’s Southeast since 1984, regularly recruits children, and 36 percent of its members of under the age of 18.
The use of children as terrorists both in cities and mountains by the PKK is an issue which escapes public attention. The pro-Kurdish Peace and Democracy Party (BDP), which capitalizes on any incident involving children, opts to remain silent when it comes to the young children recruited to fight for the PKK.
Some human rights groups, intellectuals and writers who bring various problems involving children such as child abuse, child labor, violence against children or child marriage to the public’s attention are also conspicuously quiet when it comes to the situation of child militants in the PKK.
Attorney Serdar Bülent Yılmaz, the head of the Diyarbakır branch of the Freedom Association (Özgür-Der), regrets the fact that although the issue of child warriors is a problem the world has been trying to address for many years, the children recruited by the PKK go unnoticed in Turkey and no one brings their misery to the public’s attention. “I personally became aware of this issue when I saw the bodies of children who joined the PKK in Pertek [in Tunceli province] in 1992 that had been killed within a week or so. This incident sparked outrage among families whose children had joined the PKK and led to a significant fall in the number of children joining the terrorist organization. So I think families of these children should speak out first and openly criticize the PKK,” said Yılmaz.
Recruiting “child warriors” is among the crimes against humanity and considered a violation of a fundamental human right, according to international laws and conventions. The Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict, which was adopted by the UN General Assembly on May 25, 2000, and came into force on Feb. 12, 2002, sets 18 as the minimum age for direct participation in hostilities, for recruitment into armed groups and for compulsory recruitment by governments.
Article 4 of the protocol states that “armed groups that are distinct from the armed forces of a State should not, under any circumstances, recruit or use in hostilities persons under the age of 18 years and that States Parties shall take all feasible measures to prevent such recruitment and use, including the adoption of legal measures necessary to prohibit and criminalize such practices.”
Former Liberian President Charles Taylor was convicted in April of war crimes and crimes against humanity before the United Nations Special Court for Sierra Leone. The court found Taylor guilty of the war crime of using child soldiers in addition to terrorizing civilians, murder, outrages of personal dignity, cruel treatment and looting.
Taylor played a crucial role in the armed conflict in Sierra Leone, orchestrating and conducting violent operations that utilized child soldiers.
Taylor’s conviction suggests that leaders of the PKK and the Kurdistan Communities Union (KCK), an umbrella organization that encompasses the PKK, may be tried before an international court one day for recruiting child militants and that they may be convicted.
According to sources from the PKK, half of the PKK militants based in its camps are under the age of 18 while the youngest PKK militant is an 8-year-old boy referred to as “K.”
Recruitment of children by the PKK has significantly increased since 1990, according to data from the police, gendarmerie and depositions of ex-PKK members. Fifty-nine percent of the child recruits in the PKK are boys while 41 percent are girls. Twenty-five percent of the children who joined the ranks of the PKK managed to flee its camps while there is no clear information about the fate of the 75 percent of the children that remain in the camps. Yet it is known that around half of the children who join the ranks of the terrorist organization lose their lives within two or three years, either in armed conflicts or due to intra-PKK executions or disease. It is possible to explain the reason behind the interest of children in becoming PKK militants with the KCK contract (which is regarded by the outlawed Kurdish National Congress [also known as the Kongra-Gel, the so-called legislative organ of the PKK] as the constitution of the organization), according to which every Kurd is a citizen of the KCK. This contract states that every citizen is obliged to pay taxes to the state and provide it with “soldiers.” If a family is not rich enough to pay taxes to the KCK, they are supposed to send one of their children to the PKK camps or give them to the urban service of the PKK. Although the number of voluntary child militants was high in the past, a survey recently conducted by the police among former PKK members showed that 70 percent of ex-PKK members had been coerced into joining, 19 percent of them had been tricked into joining, while 11 percent of them joined the PKK because a relative had previously joined the terrorist organization.
T.Y., a former PKK member who surrendered to security forces in May, told the authorities that the average age of PKK militants has fallen to as low as 12.
Another PKK fugitive, Z.T., said the main problem of the child militants in the PKK camps is being subjected to sexual harassment and rape.
“Both girls and boys are subjected to sexual harassment and rape. I witnessed at least 15 such cases. Older militants rape younger militant girls and threaten them to keep quiet about it. As long as such incidents are not uncovered, there is no problem. Some older militants carry condoms with them because pregnant militants would be burdensome. Young militant boys are subjected to rape or harassment in the same way. The abuser is sometimes a man, sometimes a woman,” said Z.T.According to İbrahim Güçlü, a Kurdish politician, the PKK’s recruitment of underage militia is not a new problem as it is a part of its fundamental ideological, cultural and social discourse.
“The PKK promises an independent and free Kurdistan by taking children to the PKK camps in the mountains, deceiving them with certain promises and brainwashing of children. It is employing the same political discourse today,” said Güçlü.
He also regretted the fact that Turkish politicians and intellectuals have failed to bring the issue of the PKK’s child militants to public attention.
A former PKK member, Şükrü Gümüş, said the order for recruitment of underage militia was given by the PKK’s jailed leader, Abdullah Öcalan, who once told top PKK operatives, “Bring me 14-year-old children.”
Captured in 1999, Öcalan has been serving a life sentence on İmralı island in the Sea of Marmara since then.
******************
You see how crucial, how godless this KCK/PKK is.
Worf
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How the hell are the Turks trying to opress the the Kurds?! Turkey is a country which had a kurdish president (Turgut Özal)! There is a state tv in kurdish for kurdish cizitens (trt şeş
. There is Kurdish pro-PKK MP's in the turkish parliament. Kurdish people are allowed to speak Kurdish. Turkey now has become a country where Kurds have more rights that Turks.
If the thread owner wants to see real opression he can just look at Iran. I always would be willing to give examples if he wishes...
. There is Kurdish pro-PKK MP's in the turkish parliament. Kurdish people are allowed to speak Kurdish. Turkey now has become a country where Kurds have more rights that Turks.If the thread owner wants to see real opression he can just look at Iran. I always would be willing to give examples if he wishes...
Zulkarneyn
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There has been an influx of ultra-Kemalists and ultra-nationalists and that has decreased the level of the Turkish forum incredibly much. It is not even writing anymore...
TurAr
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If the level of this forum has decreased. It is not because of "ultra-Kemalists" or the ultra-Şakirts like yourself but because of the Iranian trolls.
You are provoking people without even a reason and that makes you another troll. So my advice is: if you're not going to keep your promise and leave this forum, at least do not whine about it and keep low profile untill people forget about your promises.
Zulkarneyn
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Anyone with minimum 72 iq will be able to see the amazingly low level of the way you kemalists discuss. Worst of all you politisize the sehits and then come here and play holy. That disgusts me above everything else. When Gül was going to become president you kemalists tried every possible way to prevent that from happening even though the people wanted so, the so called "Ataturk düsünce dernegi". I have longer than 2 hour long memory span unlike most of you (last time i used a little difficult sentence as this many kemalists had hard time understanding that sentence). You come here demonize AKP and all their policies and then play smart with Turkey's economic and military development, all of whom happened thanks to them. You are but two-faced hypocrits that has an amazingly low level of discourse and honesty. And worst of all, there hasn't been a single post by you that was of any relevance or anywhere near truth, so why on earth should i take a couple of emotional manipulative people like you seriously?
As i said before since it seems you don't have the capacity to remember things for more than two hours: I do not support the Gulen movement at all. Look at all my posts concerning the gulen movement and you will realize how much i critisized them. But of course the way i critisize and the way you emotional kids critisize are two different stories. You only critisize for the sake of opposing and starting a fight. But you kids find it impossible to critisize a single fact of your holy "Ataturk". That just shows the extreme glued position you are in, it is impossible for people so much glued as you (think of North Korea and their gluedness to their holy leaders) to progress. And history in Turkey has been a witness to that. Turkey was a status-quo country since its creation until a party who destroyed your holy man. And heed my words, your holy Kemal will be open to much more critisicism in the near future. I know it is the biggest sin for you to critisize the perfect human being..
And there is only one reason i remain here, you will soon learn. But why do i waste my time and tell these things since you obviously will forget all of it in 2 hours. Yet in the end, it is only natural for people indoctrinated like you to be as you are. I just hope the indoctrination system will end in Turkey so we can actually have an education system that is up to date and a youth who is able to progress and not limit themselves to a man who lived 80 years ago. I better stick to european Turks for now, because you kemalist kids are not worth my time.
Deno
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Too long didn't read it....
Zulkarneyn
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Good, because you would forget it in 2 hours anyway.
Uzun lafin kisasi, geldiniz güzelim forumun icine ettiniz.
Selim I
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I just read the entire 7 pages, and all I saw was people from two sides calling each others for "trolls". As I stated before in another thread, only weak minded people who has nothing to prove would start accusing and directing insultive words to the counterpart. I invite you guys once again to be more mature and intellectual to have more healthy discussions. Instead of throwing dirt on each other, try to provide your arguments with solid proves.
And to both of the sides (ultra-nationalist-turks and ultra-nationalist-iranians) be open to more critics, there is no use bombarding your brain with only subjective information and thinking you are the one who truly knows everything and rest is propoganda.
Be more sceptical and critical. Only emotional people would believe that certain people are fully rightous and that failure doesn't apply to them. The last messenger has passed afterall, don't think your leaders (or your past leader) is without corruption, because that would be improbable.
And to both of the sides (ultra-nationalist-turks and ultra-nationalist-iranians) be open to more critics, there is no use bombarding your brain with only subjective information and thinking you are the one who truly knows everything and rest is propoganda.
Be more sceptical and critical. Only emotional people would believe that certain people are fully rightous and that failure doesn't apply to them. The last messenger has passed afterall, don't think your leaders (or your past leader) is without corruption, because that would be improbable.
Quasar
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20 Haziran 2012
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri merkezli askeri yayıncılık kuruluşu Defense News dergisi tarafından yayımlanan listede, ilk 100 savunma sanayii şirketi içinde (Defense News Top 100) yer alan TUSAŞ, listedeki iki Türk firmasından biri oldu.
Defense News dergisi tarafından her yıl bir önceki yılın savunma satışları baz alınarak yayımlanmakta olan "Defense News Top 100", dünyanın en prestijli savunma sanayii listesi olarak kabul ediliyor. Bu yıl listede ilk defa yer alan TUSAŞ, 83'üncü sıradan giriş yaptı.
TUSA?, Defence News ?Top 100? Listesinde? - TUSA?-Türk Havac?l?k ve Uzay Sanayii A.?.
Aselsan was the 80 th in Defense News Top 100 (2010) and now we have TUSAŞ as the 83 th
http://special.defensenews.com/top-100/charts/rank_2010.php?c=FEA&s=T1C
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri merkezli askeri yayıncılık kuruluşu Defense News dergisi tarafından yayımlanan listede, ilk 100 savunma sanayii şirketi içinde (Defense News Top 100) yer alan TUSAŞ, listedeki iki Türk firmasından biri oldu.
Defense News dergisi tarafından her yıl bir önceki yılın savunma satışları baz alınarak yayımlanmakta olan "Defense News Top 100", dünyanın en prestijli savunma sanayii listesi olarak kabul ediliyor. Bu yıl listede ilk defa yer alan TUSAŞ, 83'üncü sıradan giriş yaptı.
TUSA?, Defence News ?Top 100? Listesinde? - TUSA?-Türk Havac?l?k ve Uzay Sanayii A.?.
Aselsan was the 80 th in Defense News Top 100 (2010) and now we have TUSAŞ as the 83 th
http://special.defensenews.com/top-100/charts/rank_2010.php?c=FEA&s=T1C
TurAr
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The people who are responsible from the şehits are politicians so i'm criticizing the politicians. After the attack if you had time to watch any TV channels like NTV or CNN, you would see the discussions were mostly about the AKP's policies. Because AKP is responsible, put this in the thick skull of yours.
I'm not demonizing all of the AKP's policies. I support their "Kurdish Opening" policy. I think you are confusing me with some one else here. I'm not ultra of anything. Neither ultra-Kemalist, nor ultra-nationalist. Even some people has defined me as liberal.
Edit: When i said i'm supporting the "Kurdish Opening" policy. I don't mean the negotiations with the Terorists like in Oslo or Habur incident, but the expansion of the Kurdish rights.
You are keep saying that you're criticizing AKP but i haven't seen you once while doing that. You are supporting them ignorantly and unconditionally.
Are you talking about the Demokrat Parti? Destroyed Ataturk? GTFO and study Turkish political history, especially before the 1946. Go study about Serbest Fırka. Who created it, why? Why Ismet Inonu allowed the creation of DP as an opposition party?
Ataturk is not the one who is limiting youth, in fact his principles are widening their perspectives. But an imposed Islam...? Nah... You are the proof.
Zulkarneyn
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1:The reason i'm confusing you lot is that you all have the almost same avatar, and speak same, in other words you like to bandwagon.
2: Here i critisize AKP
3:So allowing a democracy which was supposedly implemented in the beginning of 20th century is a good thing, give me a break.
4: How can a dead man limit the people? It is not Kemal who is dead that limits people's thoughts but those who use his name and corrupts the country and our youth.
Lastly, this forum has seen many faces who called themselves kemalists. They have come, they have cursed and insulted my whole family, they have gotten banned and some never returned.
One thing i am sure about though is that many foreign visitors of Turkish subforum is perfectly able to distinct the difference between kemalists and the others. And that is one of the reasons i remain here, even in the face of your kinds influx.
Edit: This is tiring for me. Just remember to state your facts correctly when discussing a matter, by you i mean anyone. It is tiring to correct so many mistakes.
TurAr
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1- We're speaking about the history, which means facts.
2- You're criticizing one of the very few accurate policy of AKP. According to you we should risk our economy in order to keep our relations warm with Iran? Then what do you think would happen to your beloved AKP if Turkey's economy take a damage ?
3- That is why i also said go and learn something about the Serbest Fırka, and why it has failed. Let me give you the answer: Because of the corrupt, "Yobaz" and backward people.
4- There were people who misunderstood him and damaged the country, but then again they are incomparable with those who "misunderstood quran" and corrupt the country and they are still doing that.
RELIGION - 'Tomatoes are Christian,' Egyptian Salafi group warns There are many morons like these people in Turkey too. And they are the one who is corrupting this country.
Lastly, i don't care your family or those who cursed it. Are you trying to say that Kemalists are so immoral, they are cursing and sh*t? But let me tell you this, i haven't seen anyone with the Ataturk's avatar that cursed people in this forum since my registration. But i saw many şakirts that cursed people's families etc...
I really hope you're right about that. If the foreign visitors are able to distinct the difference between kemalists and şakirts, that means, hopefuly, you're not going to stay here much long.
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