Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[Yankee-stani]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48739256

 

[Nilgiri]

Congrats to Turkey. Change is in the air.

 

[Nein]

Another stupid gamble Akp done in which they paid the price in turn they lost a lot of districts basically nearly all of Istanbul.

They relied too much on good will of their supporters or voters only to have them turn against them.

Pretty pathetic if you ask me like a stupid gambler asking for more because he was too confident that he will win only to lose more.

 

[revojam]

 

[guest9999]

Don't buy into the hype bro..

This man is highly deceptive. He may appear as a nationalist to uneducated Turks and especially to foreigners. However he is the complete opposite. I won't bother listing his negative actions as I've done so countless times.

In the 1930s and 40s we were making our own planes.. then when Menderes, an Islamist, came to power in the 50s he destroyed our defense industry and made us reliant on the US. All of our hard work was gone. Some time after he was executed the troubled in Cyprus started to escalate. And thus we were forced to build our own landing ships in order to save Turks in Cyprus. This led to a rebirth of our defense industry in the 70s and in the 80s tthings started getting more serious. We set up SSM in order to coordinate the defense projects and we started planning future projects. In the 90s the industry stsrted bearing fruit with products such as the Otokar Kobra APC. It was in the 90s when the majority of the current projects had been planned and some things were already in testing stages back then.

So through all these years of research and progress of course our defense industry would be at the stage it is at now... it's got more to do with the solid foundation built by those before Erdogan than anything else.

Okay, will look into this to verify. However, I don't believe Turkey previously had the level of education it does now which is really propelling the defense industry. This seems to be an improvement brought through an improving economy and increased integration with Europe and its universities.

That's due to the absolutely brilliant actions of our founding father Ataturk. Without him our nation would be just like any other Muslim country. Secularism was a true blessing, one which brainwashed people will continue to argue against.

Actually this is just conjecture. Almost all Muslim countries are secular. Even the countries that claim to be Islamic, are far from it. Pakistan has had the most secular and liberal rulers, ruling the country since its inception. It was garbage dump back then, it's still a garbage dump right now.

Unfortunately Muslims have been fed this idea that if you abandon religion, you will naturally become smarter. The reality is your level of progress depends directly on your knowledge and your level of effort. You can have the biggest beard, turban, etc or you can be drunk and absolutely naked, neither will have any bearing on how well you do in school.

If your country became advanced because of secularism and abandoning religious ideals, then please explain to me why orthodox Ashkenazi Jews are able to produce technology and research far beyond Turkey or any other secular Muslim country? Furthermore, Ataturk came into power in 1923 to 1938. Turkey has been under his harsh secular system for almost a century. Why hasn't Turkey reached the level of Germany or France in terms of R&D, technology, universities, industry, etc? the Chinese have gotten pretty close in just a short of span of 20-30 years, yet Turkey has had almost a century and it's still relatively backwards compared to Western Europe?

 

[BordoEnes]

Okay, will look into this to verify. However, I don't believe Turkey previously had the level of education it does now which is really propelling the defense industry. This seems to be an improvement brought through an improving economy and increased integration with Europe and its universities.

This is extremely flawed argument, actually it's just conjecture. Almost all Muslim countries are secular. Even the countries that claim to be Islamic, are far from it. Pakistan has had the most secular and liberal rulers, ruling the country since its inception. It was garbage dump back then, it's still a garbage dump right now.

Unfortunately Muslims have been fed this idea that if you abandon religion, you will naturally become smarter. The reality is your level of progress depends directly on your knowledge and your level of effort. You can have the biggest beard, turban, etc or you can be drunk and absolutely naked, neither will have any bearing on how well you do in school. If your country became advanced because of secularism and abandoning religious ideals, then please explain to me why orthodox Ashkenazi Jews are able to produce technology and research far beyond Turkey or any other secular Muslim country?

False equivelance. There is fundemental differences between Turkey and Pakistan when it comes to secular views and status. By its very constitition and statehood the Turkish republic is secular throughout its very core, to the point even wearing simple scarfs were forbidden in govermental institution, positions and buildings. Pakistan on the other hands is litteraly called the Islamic Republic of Pakistan with its very identity being rooted in religion. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was the man who steered our people and nation away from dogma and religious fanatism and created an idenity that does not bound to mere religion but is just and fitting for all. You must be beyond deluded if you think Pakistan has the most "secular and liberal rulers" and is remotely comparable to that of Turkey. I mind add that despite Turkey having a history of non-secular idealogically speaking rulers, the nation never became more religious or less secular as a result of it. Until Erdogan and the AKP that is. You never had your Ataturk, thats why you will never be different then what you currently are. And thats what that man is a goddamn savior and saint.

Your knowledge also depends on your circumstances and surroundings. If you were born and raised in an environment thats forces you to adopt a certain narratives or idealogy by pressuring you into it by lets say, something like a official state religion with its jurisdictions and code of law even based upon it, there is very little room for innovation and growth of the mind. Its the reason why western/secular countries can pump out young ambitious, creative and smart/innovative people and the countries can sustain themselves. When a society encourages you to look outside the box, aka societal norms and idealogies(and by extention religion), thats when you create a thriving society that will fuel the future of your country.

The reason why Ashkenazi Jews developed so rapidly at such a rate is because of the exact same reason i stated above. You think the smartest among them valued religion? Einstein fled the oppresive country of Germany, which limited his freedom, ideals and his very humanity and went to USA, where he became the man we know today. Stop comparing yourself to us, stop making excuses. Be better.

All you do is make false equivelance. I dont know what your point was, but its null and void.

 

[Killuminati]

The west and enemies of Turkey are very happy with the results.

"Dont know why... "

 

[BordoEnes]

The west and enemies of Turkey are very happy with the results.

"Dont know why... "

And so is 54% of Istanbul Turks and me. Your point is?

 

[guest9999]

False equivelance. There is fundemental differences between Turkey and Pakistan when it comes to secular views and status. By its very constitition and statehood the Turkish republic is secular throughout its very core, to the point even wearing simple scarfs were forbidden in govermental institution, positions and buildings. Pakistan on the other hands is litteraly called the Islamic Republic of Pakistan with its very identity being rooted in religion. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was the man who steered our people and nation away from dogma and religious fanatism and created an idenity that does not bound to mere religion but is just and fitting for all.

Ataturk created a false Turkish nationality that isn't even supported by genetics. Much of your people are genetically closer to Middle Easterners that you despise (see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904778/ ). I'm not going to bother getting into your Ataturk religion. And that is exactly what he created, a religion, a dogma of secularism based on a false nationality. Whenever you have people who believe that secularism will magically make you smarter, that is a religion.

As for Pakistan being an Islamic Republic, Pakistan only became by name, an Islamic Republic when its 1973 constitution was drafted by Bhutto, who was a staunch liberal and a socialist. There were really no Islamic laws governing the country at the time or since before. Rather, it was extremely liberal, probably even more than Turkey. My grandparents lived during this period. You would not see Burqas, beards, etc. You would see common dress codes you would normally see in European countries. Talk to any Islamic scholar today and they will argue with you on Pakistan being Islamic, why do you think Pakistan suffered bombings the last decade?

If you are wondering why Pakistan is behind, that's simply because of corruption, lack of governance, and lack of investment towards education. Rote or memorization-based learning also sets it behind.

You must be beyond deluded if you think Pakistan has the most "secular and liberal rulers" and is remotely comparable to that of Turkey.

Please do a quick google search on Pakistan's leaders, trust me, they were as liberal as you could get. The country literally split in half during one of our most liberal periods.

I mind add that despite Turkey having a history of non-secular idealogically speaking rulers, the nation never became more religious or less secular as a result of it. Until Erdogan and the AKP that is. You never had your Ataturk, thats why you will never be different then what you currently are. And thats what that man is a goddamn savior and saint.

Your speech sounds like religion from some religious text.

Your knowledge also depends on your circumstances and surroundings. If you were born and raised in an environment thats forces you to adopt a certain narratives or idealogy by pressuring you into it by lets say, something like a official state religion with its jurisdictions and code of law even based upon it, there is very little room for innovation and growth of the mind. Its the reason why western/secular countries can pump out young ambitious, creative and smart/innovative people and the countries can sustain themselves. When a society encourages you to look outside the box, aka societal norms and idealogies(and by extention religion), thats when you create a thriving society that will fuel the future of your country.

You didn't answer my points in the previous post, why is Turkey despite having nearly a century of secularism not comparable to Germany, France, US, or even China in terms of science, technology, etc?

Actually, I wonder if you are even ahead of Iran which is literally ruled by religious clergy? Some of their scientific achievements are more impressive than yours if you think about it.

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

The west and enemies of Turkey are very happy with the results.

"Dont know why... "

AKP allowed the west to setup a PKK state next door in Syria, sold 16 Islands to Greece and attempted to destroy the Turkish army with FETÖ to please the west.

And here you are still defending them. Have some dignity.

BTW I have seen very little coverage in Western news outlets, unlike when AKP won years prior, where the Western news touted him as "a saviour against Turkish militarism".

 

[Nein]

Okay, will look into this to verify. However, I don't believe Turkey previously had the level of education it does now which is really propelling the defense industry. This seems to be an improvement brought through an improving economy and increased integration with Europe and its universities.

Actually this is just conjecture. Almost all Muslim countries are secular. Even the countries that claim to be Islamic, are far from it. Pakistan has had the most secular and liberal rulers, ruling the country since its inception. It was garbage dump back then, it's still a garbage dump right now.

Unfortunately Muslims have been fed this idea that if you abandon religion, you will naturally become smarter. The reality is your level of progress depends directly on your knowledge and your level of effort. You can have the biggest beard, turban, etc or you can be drunk and absolutely naked, neither will have any bearing on how well you do in school.

If your country became advanced because of secularism and abandoning religious ideals, then please explain to me why orthodox Ashkenazi Jews are able to produce technology and research far beyond Turkey or any other secular Muslim country? Furthermore, Ataturk came into power in 1923 to 1938. Turkey has been under his harsh secular system for almost a century. Why hasn't Turkey reached the level of Germany or France in terms of R&D, technology, universities, industry, etc? the Chinese have gotten pretty close in just a short of span of 20-30 years, yet Turkey has had almost a century and it's still relatively backwards compared to Western Europe?

You honestly think us Turks are inventive types when our ancestors were nomads.

Nomads dont have the time to think and invent when the place you live in is barely populated while at the same time fighting other tribes and surviving.

Turks only advanced during times of war because the Turks love war here is a quote from Ataturk.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1309344559222778

Turks only advance by war hence why the military industry has to be supported 100%.

War is like food for the Turks take it away and we starve.

 

[Dante80]

AKP (...) sold 16 Islands to Greece

This is demonstratively untrue.

 

[Adıvar]

How i see the results..


Lost

https://twitter.com/x/status/1142118581007802368

Won

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Ataturk created a false Turkish nationality that isn't even supported by genetics. Much of your people are genetically closer to Middle Easterners that you despise (see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904778/ ). I'm not going to bother getting into your Ataturk religion. And that is exactly what he created, a religion, a dogma of secularism based on a false nationality. Whenever you have people who believe that secularism will magically make you smarter, that is a religion.

There is no pure race in the world.

The Turks have controlled and today covered very large land; what made it possible is the gene, culture despite different environments. That is why Turkish is official and dominant language, so is Turk culture as in Turk populated areas in Balkans or Iraq, Syria, South Azerbaijan etc.

The Turk Geography:

Such ''researches'' have no validity or accuracy; for example, this research is based on

• '' we genotyped 64 Turkish and 16 Kyrgyz samples... ''
• ''PC analysis and FRAPPE/STRUCTURE results from three regions in Turkey (Aydin, Istanbul, and Kayseri)...''

The ''research'' is conducted in 2016, which means that they are not ethnic Turks given the mass population immigration from the southeastern Turkey into western Turkey after the racist terror in south eastern Turkey. Here is a cross check:

• Just like today, in every city of Turkey, There are Syrians up to 5+ million in total; any ''research'' can today easily claim Turks are Arabs, Middle Eastern or African.

Atatürk underlined the fact that Turks are not you in genaral, that is why Turkey live in peace and prosperity compared to you, thanks to our gene and culture.

As for Pakistan being an Islamic Republic, Pakistan only became by name, an Islamic Republic when its 1973 constitution was drafted by Bhutto, who was a staunch liberal and a socialist. There were really no Islamic laws governing the country at the time or since before. Rather, it was extremely liberal, probably even more than Turkey. My grandparents lived during this period. You would not see Burqas, beards, etc. You would see common dress codes you would normally see in European countries. Talk to any Islamic scholar today and they will argue with you on Pakistan being Islamic, why do you think Pakistan suffered bombings the last decade?

If you are wondering why Pakistan is behind, that's simply because of corruption, lack of governance, and lack of investment towards education. Rote or memorization-based learning also sets it behind.

Please do a quick google search on Pakistan's leaders, trust me, they were as liberal as you could get. The country literally split in half during one of our most liberal periods.

Your speech sounds like religion from some religious text.

You didn't answer my points in the previous post, why is Turkey despite having nearly a century of secularism not comparable to Germany, France, US, or even China in terms of science, technology, etc?

Actually, I wonder if you are even ahead of Iran which is literally ruled by religious clergy? Some of their scientific achievements are more impressive than yours if you think about it.

Why Turkey cannot reach the level of those countries is becuase some people still obsessed with ''Islamic'' paradises instead of focusing on the science and technology that bring the full peace and prosperity, which your beloved ''Islamic'' paradises have none, therefore live in misery and people seek asylum in the west like you.

Trolling and Baiting will only bring the humiliation for you.

This is demonstratively untrue.

That is factually true, regradless; the proxy never learns to live in peace due to her existential nature; therefore the war is inevitable despite the carrot is bigger now, so are the consequences for the proxy.

 

[Nein]

Ataturk created a false Turkish nationality that isn't even supported by genetics. Much of your people are genetically closer to Middle Easterners that you despise (see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904778/ ). I'm not going to bother getting into your Ataturk religion. And that is exactly what he created, a religion, a dogma of secularism based on a false nationality. Whenever you have people who believe that secularism will magically make you smarter, that is a religion.

As for Pakistan being an Islamic Republic, Pakistan only became by name, an Islamic Republic when its 1973 constitution was drafted by Bhutto, who was a staunch liberal and a socialist. There were really no Islamic laws governing the country at the time or since before. Rather, it was extremely liberal, probably even more than Turkey. My grandparents lived during this period. You would not see Burqas, beards, etc. You would see common dress codes you would normally see in European countries. Talk to any Islamic scholar today and they will argue with you on Pakistan being Islamic, why do you think Pakistan suffered bombings the last decade?

If you are wondering why Pakistan is behind, that's simply because of corruption, lack of governance, and lack of investment towards education. Rote or memorization-based learning also sets it behind.

Please do a quick google search on Pakistan's leaders, trust me, they were as liberal as you could get. The country literally split in half during one of our most liberal periods.

Your speech sounds like religion from some religious text.

You didn't answer my points in the previous post, why is Turkey despite having nearly a century of secularism not comparable to Germany, France, US, or even China in terms of science, technology, etc?

Actually, I wonder if you are even ahead of Iran which is literally ruled by religious clergy? Some of their scientific achievements are more impressive than yours if you think about it.

Created false identity??? If the Turks had no identity we would have perished.

By the way if the Turks have a false identity you can say the same for majority of the countries who were also formed by "false" identities.

A lot of modern identities that are here today is due to modern nationalism and the sense of ethnic identity.

In the past people attached themselves to their tribes, clans and family names or the cities they came from.

Ottomans came from the Osmanoglus or the Kayi tribe.

Emir Timur came from the Barlas tribe

Baybars came from a clan that was captured and sold into slavery by the Mongols.

To the Turks being in a tribe or clan meant everything. Thats why you cant apply modern day nationalism to the various Turkic Empires.