Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

[Bismarck]

Yes there is huge problem in supply and your soldiers are not perfect equipped.
Its -10 in the night and they have to make fire to warm them up.

They need gear, real gear. Don't feel offended they are good warriors. But the operation was not perfect planned.

If you have time watch the video 0:50 plus 2 minutes , gear for all clima ( Merino wool skin and modular gear, partly fire resistant)

I heard that Turkey has a similar project like our IDZ or U.S FCW. But as far as I know they cancelled the project. About operation planning, Turkish army live the worst situation of his life time, because of coup. Don't forget.

 

[Friendly]

I heard that Turkey has a similar project like our IDZ or U.S FCW. But as far as I know they cancelled the project. About operation planning, Turkish army live the worst situation of his life time, because of coup. Don't forget.

You can't compare it with IDZ. They mentioned Tek-ER aka Cenk-ER, but that's only electronic equipment.
We have IDZ-BS and IDZ-ES.
BS/T would be more than enough for TR operational forces in Syria and Irak.


http://www.baainbw.de/portal/a/baai...Rf7oBXpgb3I!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/#par4

We are organized. Turkish comrades are not organized as we are.

http://www.vbb.dbb.de/index.html

 

[CrimsonFury]

Yes there is huge problem in supply and your soldiers are not perfect equipped.
Its -10 in the night and they have to make fire to warm them up.

They need gear, real gear. Don't feel offended they are good warriors. But the operation was not perfect planned.

If you have time watch the video 0:50 plus 2 minutes , gear for all clima ( Merino wool skin and modular gear, partly fire resistant)

I have to admit that is some very sweet gear. Our boys deserve this too

 

[Oublious]

update...

https://twitter.com/x/status/819575836693200896

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/817847380628344832

 

[mehmet75]

Our lack of logistics in this operation's reason is that ; planning and commanding and exacuting and headquarter is done by ökk. their cababilities and abilities in logistic planning and exacuting are not according to and not suitable for this kind of huge battle.

I am sure they even have not seen some logistic trucs, they havent to planned this kind of logistics as convoys, food , armament, personel ... or maintanance Before. It is normal, these are not operational commando job... probably they dont know and how to use mechanized units in safe and effectifly. Because they are not expected to read or exacute tank or aav tactics .. they had to lerned it in field. But they shouldnt have actually. Because tehese are not this kind of troops' job either.

Our army (land forces command) is the master of planning and these kind of exacutions. They have every instruments, vechiles and personel resources.

For instance in every corps headquarters, there is a "logistic managment center".. contains : field hospital, military maintanance center, fuel, cloth, food, personel , ordanance, transportation units. Even military bands for moral.

When this operations area and amount of military equipment and personel became so huge ; it is need to give the command to ARMY.

nowadays i hear that army taking command slowy in the field.

So i guess, we will see more organized military units and battle soon.

Yet, till today, minumum lost, slow but enough exacution i saw.

 

[Orez]

At least I hope our soldier can learn with this smal war.
Logistic, city bombing, protection....we can discover our weakness to fight a hight technologie war.

 

[-------]

https://twitter.com/x/status/819871387468828672

 

[mahlas]

Our lack of logistics in this operation's reason is that ; planning and commanding and exacuting and headquarter is done by ökk. their cababilities and abilities in logistic planning and exacuting are not according to and not suitable for this kind of huge battle.

I am sure they even have not seen some logistic trucs, they havent to planned this kind of logistics as convoys, food , armament, personel ... or maintanance Before. It is normal, these are not operational commando job... probably they dont know and how to use mechanized units in safe and effectifly. Because they are not expected to read or exacute tank or aav tactics .. they had to lerned it in field. But they shouldnt have actually. Because tehese are not this kind of troops' job either.

Our army (land forces command) is the master of planning and these kind of exacutions. They have every instruments, vechiles and personel resources.

For instance in every corps headquarters, there is a "logistic managment center".. contains : field hospital, military maintanance center, fuel, cloth, food, personel , ordanance, transportation units. Even military bands for moral.

When this operations area and amount of military equipment and personel became so huge ; it is need to give the command to ARMY.

nowadays i hear that army taking command slowy in the field.

So i guess, we will see more organized military units and battle soon.

Yet, till today, minumum lost, slow but enough exacution i saw.

Are you really sure that ÖKK does not understand logistics?

 

[Neptune]

I think the problem rather lies in the doctrine of putting the weight on proxy forces, leaving limited logistic support to Turkish military personnel in the region, and that of course is because no one wants to see more coffins coming from Syria covered with Turkish flag, as we already see many often. But we are on the point right now where we either keep doing this to maintain tactical victory but strategically speaking too much loses. Or we go hard in there leaving the proxy forces for A2/AD and use mechanized infantry/army commandos along with push from armor spearheaded by OKK to regain the mobility advantage with strong roots to keep what we gained.

 

[Jackal131]

Our lack of logistics in this operation's reason is that ; planning and commanding and exacuting and headquarter is done by ökk. their cababilities and abilities in logistic planning and exacuting are not according to and not suitable for this kind of huge battle.

I am sure they even have not seen some logistic trucs, they havent to planned this kind of logistics as convoys, food , armament, personel ... or maintanance Before. It is normal, these are not operational commando job... probably they dont know and how to use mechanized units in safe and effectifly. Because they are not expected to read or exacute tank or aav tactics .. they had to lerned it in field. But they shouldnt have actually. Because tehese are not this kind of troops' job either.

Our army (land forces command) is the master of planning and these kind of exacutions. They have every instruments, vechiles and personel resources.

For instance in every corps headquarters, there is a "logistic managment center".. contains : field hospital, military maintanance center, fuel, cloth, food, personel , ordanance, transportation units. Even military bands for moral.

When this operations area and amount of military equipment and personel became so huge ; it is need to give the command to ARMY.

nowadays i hear that army taking command slowy in the field.

So i guess, we will see more organized military units and battle soon.

Yet, till today, minumum lost, slow but enough exacution i saw.

The breakdown on blaming poor Armor performance on OKK "not being used to commnding armored vehicles is incorrect.

OKK personnel may not be experienced commanding and deploying tanks and IFVs but the crew of those vehicles are. They vehicle commander and/or vehicle platoon commander is ultimately responsible for positioning and placement of the vehicle in question regadless of what the OKK personnel on foot want. The tanks being poorly positioned is nothing to with OKK experience but more to do with the poor training and poor standard of soldiers manning our tanks.

Regarding logistics again incorrect. Each OKK team first of all has in a field logistician. Every member of an OKK team has different specialisations, we all know this. And there is always a field logistician in each team, just like an EOD specialist, a combat surgeon, electronics specialist etc. The field logistician has two roles, coordinate with military logistics or in the even of independent field work, they are to handle logistics on the fly. This means they try to solve all logsitical matters through local sourcing. So the first answer to your theory that "OKK arent experienced in logistics" is that every team has a logistician. They are well experiecned.

The second answer is that Military logistics command is already tied in to this operation. OKK wont make any move without the nod from Logistics Command or their field logisticians on the ground.

So to make it simple instead of making up strange excuses the conclusion is simple.

Our armor is performing poorly, becuase the crew are poorly trained and of poor standard.
Our troops on foot are having trouble logistically because our logistics capabilities are weak.

There really is nothing else to it, that is the blunt, but honest answer. We are not Russia or the USA. We are simply not that capable.

 

[Friendly]

We are simply not that capable.

Pessimistic analyse, but mirroring what is going on there.
Under this circumstances it would be too optimistic even to think about Afrin,Manbij,Sinjar and Kandil operations.

 

[Jackal131]

Pessimistic analyse, but mirroring what is going on there.
Under this circumstances it would be too optimistic even to think about Afrin,Manbij,Sinjar and Kandil operations.

Not necessarily pessimistic, just realistic. Hope, bias, pride, estimation, forecasts are not reliable sources of information input.

Reality is.

I am a logistician myself. It is my job to be 100% objective and realistic in any analysis other wise my response is not adequate. Stating hard to hear truth about your own weaknesses allows you to formulate effective solutions and the correct responses.

Pretending they dont exist leaves you with no water and no ammo.

 

[mehmet75]

Let me explain myself then ;

- we are using TANKs and IFVs alone.. not as units or teams. No recon vehicle went with them. No infantary or security units at their sides and backs. there is a field book for Armed vehicles, "little unit tactics".. commandos dont have to know that book.

-Yes , tank personel in tanks, but OKK headquarter commands all field.they pickes the targets. They have guessed, this is a little size commando movement, but it is partly true.. true for first 3 mounths. But 20 december was the date of change in field. And of course with aleppo agreement was the important date. Esad can say nothing our soldiers anymore.

-of course , i am aware of this is not a full size military action , we are there for support.. but that line has been passed in 20 december And after Aleppo agreement.

-when i am talking about logistic planning. I am not talking about a little commando teams' logistics or battalions logistics. You really no have knowledge i guess about this kind of military planning.. Today this operation is not a hybrid or proxy operation now. it is an "operative size military operation" now. It needs an operative headquarter, operative corp size logistics management, supply and support. (Tam tesekküllü bir kolordu karargahi ve baglı birlikleri gereklidir bu tür bir lojistik ve harekat yönetimi için. 30 kişilik ökk ökhu karargahı ile olacak iş değil.)

- for instance if you watch efes exercise last summer, there were just a bridge size operation and logistic centers. Multiply it with at least 4 or 5 times for firat kalkani.

-what i am talking about is a "corps headquarter nad command" (kolordu karargahı ve bağlı birliklerinin komutayı ele alması. Çünkü bu artık bir komando harekatı değil. Lokal bir savaş.)

- and a memory : when usa starts a move to iraq. Operations name was "desert SHIELD". In shield level, usa have send corps to war area and they have prepared and lined formations... when USA would have attacked the name of the operation has changed and became : desert storm..

-it was firat shield , if there is a level named firat storm, command must be in a ful capable headquarter and , army must use all that have.. not limited units...

 

[Friendly]

just realistic

little unit tactics

I smell some dispute between different unit members. Thank you all for the valuable analysis and your time.

Impressive is mentioning the difference of definitions Shield vs. Storm.

I know you understand what I mean. Offense is more effective than defence. ( If you are capable)