Turkish Naval Programs

[Foinikas]

They rely on other ships for air and missile protection and believe me it's even worse in HN
View attachment 912060

These are all rather pathetic

I know,these are supposed to be retired.

The last time we got a new frigate was in the early '90s,when we got the MEKO 200HN.

The problem is that we have to retire the Kortaener frigates,the Combattante FAC and maybe some of the gunboats too.

That means 20 ships to go and 4 to be modernized.

20 Turkish Warships ( 16 Frigates and 4 ADA class Corvettes ) have more SAMs than Hellenic+Egyptian navies + 250 SAMs combined


22 FACs will not play big role in the Turkish Navy

Your problem = you dont know your place

Ah @LegionnairE I forgot to tell you: MMM-E thinks that whoever has the most SAMs wins in naval battles.

 

[LegionnairE]

I know,these are supposed to be retired.

The last time we got a new frigate was in the early '90s,when we got the MEKO 200HN.

The problem is that we have to retire the Kortaener frigates,the Combattante FAC and maybe some of the gunboats too.

That means 20 ships to go and 4 to be modernized.

Yeah and there's no replacement yet. If Turkey could build 4-5 MPACs a year, can you imagine how much of a power imbalance this will create?

Tuzla Class ships were built at a similiar rate IIRC

Ah @LegionnairE I forgot to tell you: MMM-E thinks that whoever has the most SAMs wins in naval battles.

I stopped caring about his stupidities... he thinks I'm your alt account. He's utterly retarded.

 

[MMM-E]

You understand what I'm saying? See how I discuss with LegionnairE and merzifonlu? Even if we disagree on certain things,we talk like normal people.

Its normal talk ? liar and sneaky provocateur

I will compare whatever I want, stop barking german dog

Yeah he has some issues, many "Turks" born in Germany have a deep inferiority complex.

Senin içi boş kafatasını sikiyim ben amına kodumun beyinsiz orospu çocuğu. Burası senin mastürbasyon alanın değil amına kodumun piçi. Rezil ediyorsun Türkiye'yi ırzını sülaleni sikerim ananın amına geri sokarım seni

 

[Foinikas]

I did not say anything about Greece here ,,
today I shared about a news Type23 Frigates

For more than a year,you've been mocking us with the "second-hand" Rafale thing. On top of that,you've been brain-washing us EVERY day about how strong and independent the Turkish industry is and how you're building a gazillion ships. And now you come and say "we'll be getting second-hand Type 23 frigates from Britain"...well what do you expect? What kind of answer do you expect? Seriously? When you've been talking loud about your superweapons and how "pathetic Greece" gets a few second-hand Rafale and French frigates.

Yeah and there's no replacement yet.

The story starts here:

"On 22 January 2009 the Hellenic Navy announced an order for six FREMM to replace an equal number of Elli-class frigates.[57] After the Greek government-debt crisis this was cut down to between two and four ships equipped with SCALP Naval, with France alleged to have offered them to Greece at no cost for the first five years. Germany objected to this deal in October 2011[58] and no deal has been signed. In February 2013 though and during the formal visit of the President of France, François Hollande, in Athens, according to press reports an agreement which includes the long-term leasing of two FREMM frigates (Normandie and Provence according to initial reports) to the Hellenic Navy has been reached.[59] On 12 January 2018 the Greek daily newspaper Kathimerini reported that the Greek government was set to enter talks with France regarding the procurement of two FREMM frigates, with an option for an additional two. Contacts between Greece and France were to begin initially at a military level, starting in February 2018.[60][61] In April 2018, Greek deputy Minister for National Defence Fotis Kouvelis stated that an agreement between France and Greece was reached for a five-year lease of two FREMM frigates, which could have been handed over as early as August 2018.[62] After a few days, on 25 April 2018 the Greek minister of Defense Panos Kammenos denied any information regarding the purchase of two frigates from France.[63] Eventually, Greece abandoned all plans for the purchase of FREMMs in 2019 and pursued with the smaller FDI Belharra multi-purpose frigates, offered by Naval Group.[64]"

We were supposed to get 6 FREMM,then 4,then 2...because of the economic crisis. So now we have a 3+1 FDI HN deal and we want to buy 3+1 corvettes as well. And we'll still need more ships.

 

[Trisolaran]

The problem with the Turkish Navy currently,although someone portrays it as invincible,is that many of the ships are old and inadequately equipped.

For example,like I have pointed out in other threads:

View attachment 912058


View attachment 912059

The advantage of the Turkish Navy is the numerical superiority it has over other navies in the region,specifically the Hellenic and Israeli navies. If we go to the Black Sea,all others except Russia perhaps.

Except for a few classes,the majority of the ships are old and lightly armed.

That's why,one cannot talk of "Turkish Navy strongest in the region".

All our navies,Hellenic,Egyptian,Turkish,Israeli have pros and cons. I could name them

As I know both Greek and Turkish frigates have similer Air defence missiles CİWS and Sea Sparrow like in Meko class and Barbaros class..

 

[LegionnairE]

"On 22 January 2009 the Hellenic Navy announced an order for six FREMM to replace an equal number of Elli-class frigates.[57] After the Greek government-debt crisis this was cut down to between two and four ships equipped with SCALP Naval, with France alleged to have offered them to Greece at no cost for the first five years. Germany objected to this deal in October 2011[58] and no deal has been signed. In February 2013 though and during the formal visit of the President of France, François Hollande, in Athens, according to press reports an agreement which includes the long-term leasing of two FREMM frigates (Normandie and Provence according to initial reports) to the Hellenic Navy has been reached.[59] On 12 January 2018 the Greek daily newspaper Kathimerini reported that the Greek government was set to enter talks with France regarding the procurement of two FREMM frigates, with an option for an additional two. Contacts between Greece and France were to begin initially at a military level, starting in February 2018.[60][61] In April 2018, Greek deputy Minister for National Defence Fotis Kouvelis stated that an agreement between France and Greece was reached for a five-year lease of two FREMM frigates, which could have been handed over as early as August 2018.[62] After a few days, on 25 April 2018 the Greek minister of Defense Panos Kammenos denied any information regarding the purchase of two frigates from France.[63] Eventually, Greece abandoned all plans for the purchase of FREMMs in 2019 and pursued with the smaller FDI Belharra multi-purpose frigates, offered by Naval Group.[64]"

We were supposed to get 6 FREMM,then 4,then 2+2...then nothing. Because of the economic crisis. So now we have a 3+1 FDI HN deal and we want to buy 3+1 corvettes as well. And we'll still need more ships.

Yeah this is all about Major ships though... it seems even before the crisis there wasn't a plan to replace the minor ships., We replaced all our patrol boats with the Tuzla class and we're going to replace all the FACs too... probably only exception is Kılıç Class

Kılıç Class is still pretty good, some might be sold to Azerbaijan as they are interested.

As for Greece, MEKOs are getting MLU, much like ours, so the major ships are fine.




The problem will come when Turkey builds 20-30 Modern FACs that can happily exchange fire with any HDI or MEKO. This will be a game changer.

As I know both Greek and Turkish frigates have similer Air defence missiles CİWS and Sea Sparrow like in Meko class and Barbaros class..

Yes, İ class will tip the scales a little bit but I think the real game changer will be MPAC

 

[Foinikas]

As I know both Greek and Turkish frigates have similer Air defence missiles CİWS and Sea Sparrow like in Meko class and Barbaros class..

Yeah. Although we have the Phalanx as CIWS and the Turks use the Sea Zenith on their MEKO

 

[MMM-E]

For more than a year,you've been mocking us with the "second-hand" Rafale thing. On top of that,you've been brain-washing us EVERY day about how strong and independent the Turkish industry is and how you're building a gazillion ships. And now you come and say "we'll be getting second-hand Type 23 frigates from Britain"...well what do you expect? What kind of answer do you expect? Seriously? When you've been talking loud about your superweapons and how "pathetic Greece" gets a few second-hand Rafale and French frigates.

Enough with your silly posts and lies

I never said about 2nd hand or new ....
I said always about quantity ..
24 Rafale can not change balance of power and 24 Rafale can not give a victory to Greece in a large scale of war against Turkiye


Your problem is jealousy
You are trying to deflect the facts and to defame Turkish defense industry

Greece can not produce even UCAV
Greece can not produce even Corvette

Greeks have no right to say anything about Turkiye .. know your place

Turkiye has developed its own ADA Corvette and ISTIF Frigate as like other major Turkish military projects

We produce even Warships for Pakistan,Ukraine,Turkmenistan,Indonesia

 

[Foinikas]

Yeah this is all about Major ships though... it seems even before the crisis there wasn't a plan to replace the minor ships.

Yes,but if we had bought the FREMM back then,let's say in 2009 or 2010...we would have had enough money to replace at least half of the FAC now.

Another example is the Army

We were supposed to get Marder IFVs back in the early 2000s. Then,the New Democracy government came and they decided to buy 450 BMP-3s from Russia. Then the crisis came and the deal froze. Now,20 years later,we got 40 Marder 1A3 IFVs in exchange for BMP-1s (that were sent to Ukraine).

Sarkozy had offered us Rafale back when he was president. We didn't buy any. We bought them now.

After 10-12 years of economic crisis,we have to replace 40 Phantom,some 20 ships,some submarines and the HAWK,Tor-M1, OSA-AKM and S-300PMU1 systems.

 

[MMM-E]

Yeah. Although we have the Phalanx as CIWS and the Turks use the Sea Zenith on their MEKO

What about 4 Greek MEKO-200 Frigates ?

MK-48 VLS for 16 x ESSM SAMs ?


4 Turkish MEKO-200 Frigates have MK-41 VLS
( 8 cells and 16 cells ) with quad pack capability up to 64 SAMs

also to carry 16 ATMACA anti-ship Missiles and most modern systems
thanks to modernization program for €250 million

First modernized MEKO-200 will be delivered in march 2023

Hellenic Navy can not stop even around 300 Turkish UCAVs
still dreaming about Hellenic Navy

 

[LegionnairE]

Yes,but if we had bought the FREMM back then,let's say in 2009 or 2010...we would have had enough money to replace at least half of the FAC now.

Another example is the Army

We were supposed to get Marder IFVs back in the early 2000s. Then,the New Democracy government came and they decided to buy 450 BMP-3s from Russia. Then the crisis came and the deal froze. Now,20 years later,we got 40 Marder 1A3 IFVs in exchange for BMP-1s (that were sent to Ukraine).

Sarkozy had offered us Rafale back when he was president. We didn't buy any. We bought them now.

After 10-12 years of economic crisis,we have to replace 40 Phantom,some 20 ships,some submarines and the HAWK,Tor-M1, OSA-AKM and S-300PMU1 systems.

When it comes to Turkish Armed Forces, it's easy to look closely and find weaknesses here and there but with Greece there's a giant elephant in the room that is the fact that you lack a defence industry and you're getting shitty deals from France.

Buying weapons from Russia seems to have bit you in the ***. One giant obvious problem sitting in front of you is that you won't be able to afford these expensive French systems for too long. The second giant problem will arise if the French relations sour in a few years, much like how Greco-German or Greco Russian relations have soured and how you can't rely on those partners anymore.

As for Turkey this Type-23 deal came out of nowhere, if it works, if it doesn't, Burak class still gets replaced with OPVs, FACs get replaced by MPACs, and Gabya Class will still be replaced by TF2000. There aren't ifs and buts because we have developed some self reliance.


But as I said before, Turkey was always strong and will always stay strong as a military power. Turkish military is like a very very strong door to your house. But the problem is that we don't have any fıcking walls or roof. Turkish economy is crumbling under the weight of the 13 million refugees that our traitorous government allowed into our country.

This is like a hobby to me, I ike defence matters. I know it's not going to save Turkey. I wish our problems were simple enough to be solved by military operations but they aren't. It's all going to hell in a handbasket.

 

[Foinikas]

When it comes to Turkish Armed Forces, it's easy to look closely and find weaknesses here and there but with Greece there's a giant elephant in the room that is the fact that you lack a defence industry and you're getting shitty deals from France.

Buying weapons from Russia seems to have bit you in the ***. One giant obvious problem sitting in front of you is that you won't be able to afford these expensive French systems for too long. The second giant problem will arise if the French relations sour in a few years, much like how Greco-German or Greco Russian relations have soured and how you can't rely on those partners anymore.

The corrupted politicians made sure that the our defence industry never went too far ahead...our companies would make great things,the State would show little interest in funding or acquiring them for the army,the project would fail. Same with Ares,Artemis-30,Kentavros IFV,the national rifle etc. We made UAVs before Turkey,no funding and interest from the governments for 40 years,now Turkey is one of the biggest UAV exporters in the world and we are still sleeping.

They finally funded Archytas and Gripas projects...

 

[LegionnairE]

The corrupted politicians made sure that the our defence industry never went too far ahead...our companies would make great things,the State would show little interest in funding or acquiring them for the army,the project would fail. Same with Ares,Artemis-30,Kentavros IFV,the national rifle etc. We made UAVs before Turkey,no funding and interest from the governments for 40 years,now Turkey is one of the biggest UAV exporters in the world and we are still sleeping.

They finally funded Archytas and Gripas projects...

They say necessity is the mother of invention. 1974 war and the subsequent arms embargo on Turkey changed a lot of things. If it wasn't for that, we could have been like Greece in this regard.

Turkish private sector is pretty weak too, it's mostly land systems and small arms manufacturing, If it wasn't for the military shipyards owned by the Turkish navy, we couldn't have the MİLGEM project. If it wasn't for the TSKGV we wouldn't have anything.

I have seen the Greek UAVs, some of them are as laughable as that laser system but some of them are decent. It's just that the state and the military needs to get into defence industry and start spending real money on R&D.

 

[Falcon26]

When I was checking all that stuff,I was surprised that 25 ships of the Turkish Navy had no AA systems. Some had autocannons and heavy machine-guns,but how are you gonna stop an anti-ship missile with that?

And that "research" was initially a reply to you know who,because he kept bragging about the strength of the Turkish navy and mocking ours. MEKO and Gabya have been heavily modernized,Ada are new,the rest though were just mediocre.


Out of curiosity I looked at old threads and discussions and screenshots the other day and found that more than 30 other people had fought or couldn't cope with that guy. I probably missed some names to add in the list,but yeah 30 people. And it was almost always the same thing: "Ignorant troll you know nothing about..."

You have seen what he's said about Pakistan,haven't you?

No, I haven’t seen what he’s said about Pakistan. I am not a Pakistani so I don’t pay attention.

 

[Foinikas]

I have seen the Greek UAVs, some of them are as laughable as that laser system but some of them are decent. It's just that the state and the military needs to get into defence industry and start spending real money on R&D.

Wait,which ones are you talking about? The new ones or the ones that we already have in our inventory?

No, I haven’t seen what he’s said about Pakistan. I am not a Pakistani so I don’t pay attention.

ah American Turk?