Turkish Naval Programs

[Pax Ottomana]

What you call heavy weapons make of at most %5-10 of total displacement (weight) of a combatant. 0.30 meters drop at the draught would lead to a greater loss than 1/13 , a ratio directly calculated by 0.3/3
9( the displacement would reduce by fraction of 1/8)
Its not only weapons, gas turbine has been removed and gearbox system got lighter.

Fair points. Thanks for the info.

 

[Oublious]

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...energy-systems-workshop-first-day-panels-3970


Before we build the MILDEN ther is a debate going on with which battery we should use.

 

[monitor]

The Tracking Mode Maneuver Test System (TMDS), supported by SSB, is a ship hydrodynamic test system established at ITU.
https://twitter.com/ssysfakb/status/1253427197680861185/photo/1

 

[cabatli_53]

ARES-2Nv2 Latest generation naval electronic support unit (TCG Anadolu).

 

[-------]

ARES-2Nv2 Latest generation naval electronic support unit (TCG Anadolu).

View attachment 628070

Beautiful

 

[ziya]

no phalanx but gökdeniz

 

[Pax Ottomana]

ARES-2Nv2 Latest generation naval electronic support unit (TCG Anadolu).

View attachment 628070

What are those "pipes" on the right side of the picture?

 

[Oublious]

What are those "pipes" on the right side of the picture?

They launch decoy against anti ship missiles....

 

[SİLAHDAR]

There is 2 bigger problems about Tf-2000

1- which requirment needs 166 m 7000+ tonnes beast ship (it almost light cruiser)
2- why a lower vls quanity when compared his seize ?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

They launch decoy against anti ship missiles....

Thank you sir.

There is 2 bigger problems about Tf-2000

1- which requirment needs 166 m 7000+ tonnes beast ship (it almost light cruiser)
2- why a lower vls quanity when compared his seize ?

Quality over quantity, perhaps?

Jokes aside, maybe it has something to do with featuring a higher endurance (days at sea) than comparable ships of the same weight class.

 

[Neptune]

I think Phalanx is more suitable for naval platforms at this stage given that Gökdeniz actually derived from a land based platform which is a fine product but not mature yet. Do we have a data comparision on the rate of fire and response times of both systems?

Close in weapon systems that born out of naval requirements rather than coming from land domain in my opinion perform better than the latter.

 

[-------]

I think Phalanx is more suitable for naval platforms at this stage given that Gökdeniz actually derived from a land based platform which is a fine product but not mature yet. Do we have a data comparision on the rate of fire and response times of both systems?

Close in weapon systems that born out of naval requirements rather than coming from land domain in my opinion perform better than the latter.

Does Phanlanx have airburst munitions?

 

[-------]

Personally, I think the only things that the phalanx had going for it were sensors, fire rate and maturity. Sensors, it is now less capable then competition although expensive upgrades are available. Fire rate, airburst munitions solved that. And maturity, well, you gotta invest time and money, when there's an indigenous option I'd rather see the money and time go there.

 

[Neptune]

Does Phanlanx have airburst munitions?

Good point. No but airburst ammo doesn't address the naval requirements as needed. And please note that rounds used by this system are different than conventional 20 mm AP rounds. Mark 149 rounds (of Phalanx) are specifically optimized for naval requirements, particularly for anti ship missiles.

I just checked Aselsan's page. Gökdeniz has a rate of fire of 1100 rounds per minute. It is almost one fourth of Phalanx which at sea can be fatal. But this is only normal. The reason I don't favor naval derivatives of land-originated CIWS systems is because they don't conform well to naval requirements as compared to systems designed for sea environment.

Being a land system in nature means that it was designed bearing in mind army formations for air defense. One Korkut system is said to come with 3 firing platforms and 1 command vehicle and you get attacked from air. At sea, what we call air is relatively different. Forget big targets such as aircraft, even sea skimming antiship missiles have drastically different flight profiles.

And so in land you have two more systems to engage the target if needed as per the standard army air defense formation for Korkut SPAAG. At sea you often have only one per angle (as in the case of TF-2000) and the turret movement is restricted to protect the ship. Only in certain angles all two systems can engage the target.

Phalanx systems in use by DZKK provide roughly 4 times more rate of fire and having 20mm APDS rounds means they're big enough for forecasted threats at sea and small enough for increased barrel speed which also affects other specifications of the system. Because muzzle velocity and elevation speed are very important factors for gun based naval CIWS among with other factors such as rate of fire and it being a part of multi-layered air defense architecture to defend a single platform in an environment where a height of 0 meters is also an area that needs to be defended.

Additionally air burst ammo doesnt go well against surface targets at sea. Gökdeniz can probably aim at surface targets too if there is a manual mode or enabled for surface use like the Phalanx. Gökdeniz does also have the capability to store HE rounds and can switch between air burst rounds and other ones as his brother Korkut was designed to. But the thing is in land, unlike infantry there is almost always a constant line of supply for air defense systems whereas at sea once you're sailed the only time you get resupplied is either when the ship docks again or receives a replenishment at sea which for ammo is a rare occasion in any navy in these times.

I am not saying Gökdeniz is flawed. Aselsan can very well design and produce a system like Phalanx too. My problem is rather about how certain sub systems are utilized at sea.

 

[MMM-E]

20mm PHALANX : 4500 rounds//minute


35mm GOKDENIZ have 2 barrels ( each can fire 1.100 rounds//minute ) 2400 rounds//minute

but GOKDENIZ will use 35mm airburst ammunition ( missile killer )
Aselsan ATOM 35mm Air Burst Ammunition provides high hit probability against various types of targets

-- Precise Programming Taking Muzzle Velocity Into Account
-- Improved Distribution for Tungsten Pellets
-- Deep Penetration Capability
-- High Precision Time Counting
-- 4 km Effective Range
-- 1020 m/sn Muzzle Velocity

and GOKDENIZ has automatic target tracking with integrated tracking platform including Tracking Radar and E/O Sensors and 3-D Search Radar highly effective against even sea skimming antiship missiles