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Turkish Firms In South America: FIDAE 2012

We have the best Missiles in the Muslim World ! Enough diversity from indigenously manufactured cruise missiles to battlefield ballistic missiles to truly bad arse glide bombs, to give anyone a massive head-ache ! :chilli:

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Okay okay jeez... I said sorry alright :D You misunderstood me...

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:lol:
 
Newbie Question : The F-16s that you guys manufacture at TAI...how much are its components indigenous ? For example if Pakistan were to import some...could the US step in and block the sale of some significant parts or do local industries produce their equivalent ?
 
Okay okay jez... I said sorry alright :D You misunderstood me...

:lol:

Hmmmn ! Apology not accepted...unless you :

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But on a serious note :Both Pakistan and Turkey, do have some really nice goodies that we make and Pak-Turk relations are pretty good...why haven't there been any significant Joint-Ventures till date ?
 
Hmmmn ! Apology not accepted...unless you :

0644ca96-7ada-41cf-b783-ae6298576d4f.jpg


But on a serious note :Both Pakistan and Turkey, do have some really nice goodies that we make and Pak-Turk relations are pretty good...why haven't there been any significant Joint-Ventures till date ?

Well, Pakistan's best military tech is its missiles and nukes but because of Turkey's '' no weapon or tech purchase of +300km missiles '' Pakistan and Turkey can't cooperate in that areas.

On tanks, Turkey and Pakistan has different needs. Pakistan needs tanks that could move in mpossible areas like Himalayas ( Like Alkaid and Indian Arjun ) and Turkey needs +60 ton tanks because of Greek Leo2A6s and Soviet's massive tank force. ( I think because of this that our cooperation with Pakistan limited with armor tech )

On naval tech which Turkey's best industry, Turkey did offered Milgem and semi-stealth designed patrol ships with know-how and local production but Pakistan had to choose option of upgrading its current navy because of economical problems.

On air warfare, Turkey needs proven aircraft against Hellenic Air Force which is one of the best in Europe and thats why we didn't go for JF-17. Although I wished that we could buy around 100 JF-17 and get rid of our Phantoms and F-5s but I don't think NATO would like that much or our budget can endure another multi billion dollar defence contract.


P.S: Sorry about crappy grammar and spellings, I still two more exams tommorow and I tried to write this post and read my notesat the same time.
 
Well, Pakistan's best military tech is its missiles and nukes but because of Turkey's '' no weapon or tech purchase of +300km missiles '' Pakistan and Turkey can't cooperate in that areas.

On tanks, Turkey and Pakistan has different needs. Pakistan needs tanks that could move in mpossible areas like Himalayas ( Like Alkaid and Indian Arjun ) and Turkey needs +60 ton tanks because of Greek Leo2A6s and Soviet's massive tank force. ( I think because of this that our cooperation with Pakistan limited with armor tech )

On naval tech which Turkey's best industry, Turkey did offered Milgem and semi-stealth designed patrol ships with know-how and local production but Pakistan had to choose option of upgrading its current navy because of economical problems.

On air warfare, Turkey needs proven aircraft against Hellenic Air Force which is one of the best in Europe and thats why we didn't go for JF-17. Although I wished that we could buy around 100 JF-17 and get rid of our Phantoms and F-5s but I don't think NATO would like that much or our budget can endure another multi billion dollar defence contract.


P.S: Sorry about crappy grammar and spellings, I still two more exams tommorow and I tried to write this post and read my notesat the same time.

Hmmn...I'd like to go on because I have some thoughts in mind where we could work together despite the points you raised but Deno, 2 tests....Go Study ! ! ! :girl_wacko:
 
Deno is mad at me for some reasons...:cry:
As a punishment, I will call Erdogan to ban women driving, make women veil obligatory as well as forbid them to travel without a man escort.:coffee:

On topic: Jordanian F-16 arsenal were upgraded in Turkey...:tup:
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Newbie Question : The F-16s that you guys manufacture at TAI...how much are its components indigenous ? For example if Pakistan were to import some...could the US step in and block the sale of some significant parts or do local industries produce their equivalent ?

sorry for the late reply before the latest 30 block 50+ it was around % 80 according to TAI! I dont know the exact figure for the engine tough... and we are getting the source code


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Projects

TAIs experience includes the licenced production of F-16 Fighting Falcon jets, CN-235 light transport/maritime patrol/surveillance aircraft, SF-260 trainers, Cougar AS-532 search and rescue (SAR), combat search and rescue (CSAR) and utility helicopters as well as the design and development of Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), target drones and agricultural aircraft.

TAIs core business also includes modernization, modification and systems integration programs and after sales support of both fixed and rotary wing military and commercial aircraft that are in the inventory of Turkey and its allies.

The major programs of TAI include:

Electronic warfare retrofit and structural modifications on Turkish Air Force F-16s.[2]
MLU, Falcon-Up and Falcon Star Modifications on the Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF) F-16s,[3]
Modifications of 42 Block-15 F-16's of Pakistan Air Force to Block-50.[4]
Modification of the S-2E Tracker Maritime Patrol Aircraft into Fire Fighting Aircraft
CN-235 and Black Hawk modifications for the Turkish Special Forces
Modification of CN-235 platforms for MPA/MSA missions for the Turkish Navy and Coast Guard
Modification and modernization of Eurocopter AS 532[5]
Glass Cockpit Retrofit of S-70 helicopters[6]
Conversion of B737-700 aircraft AEW&C aircraft[7]
Avionics modernization of C-130 aircraft for the Turkish Air Force (TuAF) [8]
Production of the center fuselage of Joint Strike Fighter F-35 aircraft[9]
Participating in the design and development of the A400M military transport and tanker aircraft[10]
Avionics modernization of T-38 aircraft for the Turkish Air Force [11]
Design, development and production of the attack helicopter T-129 for the Turkish Armed Forces (TAF).[12]
Design, development and production of Turkish Primary and Basic Training Aircraft, named HÜRKU, with EASA CS-23 certification.[13]
Design, development and production of Anka unmanned aerial vehicle for the Turkish Air Force.[14]

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) production facilities

TAI is engaged in manufacturing aerostructures for fixed and rotary wing, military and commercial aircraft for worldwide customers. TAI is in various partnership arrangements with Agusta, Alenia Aeronautica, Airbus, Boeing, CASA, Eurocopter, IAI, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, MD Helicopters, Sikorsky, Sonaca and numerous other companies in aeropsace sector.

TAI manufactures Section 18 fuselage panels for Airbus 319/320/321 aircraft, wing tips and flight deck panels for Boeing 737[15] aircraft, rear doors and engine cowlings for Eurocopter EC135 helicopters, MD 902 fuselage for MD Helicopters, horizontal stabilizers, tail rotor pylons and tail booms for Sikorsky S-70A and MH-60 helicopters, horizontal stabilizers for Sikorsky S-76 helicopters and AB139 fuselage for Agusta.[16] Furthermore, TAI manufactures nose landing gear doors for the Boeing 747, dorsal fin for 777 and parts/subassembly parts for 737/767/777. It also manufactures seven components of the Eurocopter AS 532 helicopter.

TAI, which had a single program (the co-production of the F-16 Fighting Falcon) at its establishment phase, is working on over 50 military and commercial programs today. As a partner of the Airbus Military S.L., TAI has been participating in the design and development activities of the Airbus A400M program with the leading European aerospace companies; namely Airbus (France, Germany, Spain and UK), EADS CASA (Spain) and FLABEL (Belgium) from the beginning of the project. TAI has accepted the production of A350XWB's winglets with the new cooperation.

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TUSAS, by competing with other F-16 manufacturing companies, has been selected as the contractor, in the tender of Pakistan Air Force F-16 Modernisation (Peace Drive II) Programme and signed a contract with Pakistan Ministry of Defence in June 2009.

Under the programme, TUSAS's engineers and technicians perform avionics and structural modernisation of a total of 41 F-16 aircraft that are in the inventory of Pakistan Air Force (PAF). The test flights of each modernised aircraft were also performed by TUSAS's F-16 Test Pilots.

The Peace Drive II programme, which started in October 2010, is scheduled to be completed by September 2014. The required parts, material and technical data were furnished to TUSAS in accordance with another contract between the US government and PAF.

Within the scope of the Peace Drive II Programme, TUSAS also provides classroom and on-the-job training to 72 PAF technicians.

Upon completion of their training, the technicians directly participate in the ongoing modernisation activities at TUSAS.

TUSAS, which was established for co-production of F-16 aircraft for the Turkish Air Force in 1984, is one of the major aerospace companies in the world for F-16 manufacturing and modernisation backed with its experience, capabilities and manpower capacity.

After manufacturing and delivering a total of 272 F-16s, TUSAS, which has successfully completed avionics and structural modernisation of F-16s of the Royal Jordanian Air Force, is currently modernising 175 F-16s of the Turkish Air Force.

TUSAS is the centre of technology in design, development, manufacturing, integration of aerospace systems, modernisation and after sales support in Turkey.

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Background

Turkeys order for a total of 160 F-16C/D Block 30/40 Fighting Falcons through United States Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program in 1984 marked the beginning of a new era for Turkish Air Force (TuAF). The F-16 was going to be the first modern, high performance multirole fighter aircraft. Peace Onyx project also kick started the foundations of Turkish aerospace industry infrastructure, by the build-up of the assembly line of the fighters at TUSAS Aerospace Industries (TAI) at Murted (now Akinci) in Ankara.

The first 8 F-16s were flown in from General Dynamics (now Lockheed Martin) facilities at Fort Worth, Texas in 1987. The remaining 152 aircraft were assembled at TAI between 1987 and 1995. Meanwhile in 1992, the order for the second batch of 80 F-16s was given under Peace Onyx II project, again through FMS but funded by Gulf States in appreciation of Turkeys support for Operation Desert Storm. This second batch covered more modern Block 50 F-16s. Local input in the assembly line increased with Peace Onyx II.

With the completion of Peace Onyx II in 1999, a total of 240 F-16s in 11 squadrons had formed the backbone of TuAF. Operating under two tactical air force commands, these squadrons were tasked with missions such as of air defense, interception, ground attack, Combat Air Patrol (CAP), Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD). Two squadrons were progressively equipped with AN/AAQ-13 and AN/AAQ-14 LANTIRN (Low Altitude Navigation and Targeting InfraRed for Night) pods for nighttime precision strike roles.

Immediately after achieving Initial Operational Capability (IOC), TuAF F-16s had become extremely engaged in a wide range of tasks, both in peacetime and actual combat missions. They took part in multinational operations in Bosnia and Kosovo, in close air support and precision strike missions against separatist terrorist PKK targets in Southeastern Anatolia and Northern Iraq and in endless dogfights against fighter aircraft of rival neighbor and NATO ally Greece over the Aegean.

Block 30 and Block 40 F-16s progressively received Falcon Up structural modernization packages and were equipped with AN/ALQ-178(V)3 electronic warfare systems at TAI facilities between 1993 and 1999. A more advanced version, AN/ALQ-178(V)5 was selected for Block 50 F-16s, but the integration project was continuously delayed by contractual problems.


Preparations for a New Life

From the very beginning of Peace Onyx I, it was planned that F-16 was going to be the main workhorse of TuAF until 2030s. The fleet of 240 advanced multirole fighters thus needed to be kept up-to-date with the latest avionics, sensor and weapon systems to be able to meet the operational requirements of Turkey.

Initial studies on the modernization of F-16s started in early 2004 whenthe TuAF issued a Letter of Request (LoR) to the USAF to investigate costs involved with Common Configuration Implementation Program (CCIP). On 07.11.2004, the US Defense Security Co-operation Agency (DSCA) announced a likely Foreign Military Sale (FMS) for an upgrade package for the Turkish F-16s in line with CCIP. The total value of the program, if all options were to be exercised, was estimated as USD 3.888 billion. This package covered the modernization of 38 F-16 Block 30, 104 F-16 Block 40 and 76 F-16 Block 50 aircraft and included the following avionics and mission systems:

180 AN/APG-68(V)9 radars,
7 full mission trainers for upgrade and/or replacement,
200 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS),
200 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVG),
2 AN/ASQ-213 HARM Targeting System (export) (HTS(E).

The weapons package covered the following for test and integration purposes:

4 AGM-84H Joint Standoff Land Attack Missile-Expanded Response (SLAM-ER),
4 AGM-84 HARPOON missiles,
6 AIM-120C Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM),
4 drones (aerial targets),
1 AGM-154B Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW),
1 AGM-154A JSOW,
2 AIM-9X Sidewinder missiles,
2 CBU-103 Cluster Bomb Units with Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD),
2 CBU-105 Sensor Fused Weapon (SFW) with WCMD,
1 AGM-88B High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missiles (HARM),

The upgrade package also covered for integraion of IRIS-T, Python 5, Derby, SPICE and Penguin wapon systems as option.

Project Structure

Designated as Peace Onyx III, the project was kick-started on 26.04.2005 with the signature of the USD 1.1 billion Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LoA) which went effective in May 2005. According to this LoA, Peace Onyx III covered the upgrade of 41 Block 30 and 76 Block 50 F-16s, with the 100 Block 40 F-16s as option. Like the two predecessor Peace Onyx projects, the Turkish CCIP was to be funded through FMS.

According to the deal, the CCIP kits which include Raytheon APG-68(V)9 radar upgrade kits, colour cockpit displays, new avionics processors, Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS), night-vision goggles, Link-16 datalink systems, advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) and AN/ALQ-178(V)5 electronic warfare systems were to be delivered to TAI for serial integration work. Block 30 F-16s are to receive a much limited upgrade, since they are being used as Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) and Weapons and Tactics duties in 4th Main Jet Base and 132nd Squadron respectively. Work on these aircraft are being carried on in Air Force 1st Maintenance Center in Eskisehir (Hava Ikmal Bakim Merkezi; HIBM).

Peace Onyx III consists of three stages: Reception of upgrade kits for all the aircraft, modernization of 10 aircraft at TAI facilities for test and verification purposes and serial modernization stage.

The test and verification process has two phases: The first phase, Trial Verification Installation (TVI) covers the upgrade of a total of 4 F-16s; single and double seat Block 40 and Block 50s, one for each. Work on these aircraft commenced in July 2007 at TAI. After completion in June 2009, these aircraft left for Lockheed Martin Forth Worth facilities with the escort of 2 TuAF KC-135R Stratotankers for a 12-month ground and flight test period.

The second phase, Lead-the-Fleet (LTF) sees the upgrade of 6 F-16s, this time Block 30, Block 40 and Block 50 F-16s, again one single and one double seater versions of all Blocks. LTF can be considered as an initial serial production stage. The first two aircraft, an F-16C Block 30 and an F-16D Block 30 were delivered to the TuAF after completion of their modernization. Work on the remaining 4 aircraft started at TAI facilities in January 2010.

The total number of F-16s to be modernized has been revised as 210, after mishaps since the signature of the LoA.

The third and final stage of the Peace Onyx III is called as Serial Modernization Phase and commenced after the meeting of the meeting of Defence Industry Executive Committee (SSIK; Savunma Sanayii Icra Komitesi) on 09.04.2008. This stage of the project covers the modernization of 165 Block 40 and Block 50 fighters. 8 Block 40 and 8 Block 50 aircraft will be modernized at 1. HIBM, while the remaining 149 are to be sent to TAI. Serial Modernization Phase is going to start in October 2010 and will be completed in June 2014 with the last aircraft leaving TAI facilities.


Peace Onyx IV

Procurement of additional 24 32 F-16s as attrition replacement was on table since the second half of 1990s. There was even a premature plan for forming a dedicated naval strike squadron with the additional F-16s. However, this plan was not realized because of a number of tactical and economic reasons.

When the Peace Onyx III started to materialize, with the addition of the loss of a total of 30 F-16s since the first crash in 1988, an urgent need for additional F-16s rose. According to the schedule plan of the Peace Onyx III, around 45 fighters will be in modernization line, in different stages of refurbishment at any given time between 2010 and 2014. This factor dictated replacement of loss of F-16s and that was the thrust for Peace Onyx IV.

Peace Onyx IV was officially started with the signature of LoA on 11.05.2007. With a budget of USD 1.72 billion, 14 F-16C Block 50+ and 16 F-16D Block 50+ fighters are going to be delivered in TAI facilities in Ankara after licensed production and tests. The fighters will have Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFT). Peace Onyx IV F-16s will be equipped with AN/ALQ-211(V)4 AIDEWS electronic warfare suite, AN/ALQ-13 LANTIRN ER and Sniper XR navigation and targeting pods.

Production work for Peace Onyx IV has formally started in December 2009 with the first assembly work started on 01.04.2010. The first aircraft is planned to get out of the assembly line in 2011 and deliveries are expected to be completed in 2012.


Weapons and Systems

Peace Onyx III and Peace Onyx IV F-16s are planned to have a common configuration in avionics and weapon systems, except the difference in electronic warfare suite.

So far the following weapon systems have been delivered to the TuAF:

50 AGM-154A1 JSOW
54 AGM-154C JSOW
48 AGM-84H SLAM-ER
100 CBU-97 SFW
50 CBU-105 & 50 CBU-103
127 AIM-9X Sidewinder

The integration work on AIM-9X Sidewinder, AGM-84H SLAM-ER and AGM-154 JSOW weapon systems has been completed at 1. HÝBM. Deliveries for the upgrade kits of AN/APG-68(V)9 radar, AN/APX-113 AIFF, JHCMS, AN/AVS-9 night vision googles, AGM-84L air launched Harpoon missiles, AN/ASQ-213 HTS and JDAM GPS guided bomb kits have been continuing.


The Future

With the completion of Peace Onyx IV in 2012 and Peace Onyx III in 2014, Turkish Air Force is going to have a total of 240 F-16s, equipped with the latest avionics and weapon systems. Until the introduction of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in the late second half of 2010s and their IOC, this fleet is going to continue on being the backbone of TuAF, with the 50 F-4E 2020 Terminators. There are ongoing negotiations with the US on the permission of having the authority to get full control on the Operational Flight Program (OFP) of F-16s in order to integrate indigenously developed avionics and weapon systesm such as ASELSANs ASELPOD targeting pod, HGK (Hassas Gudum Kiti; Precision Guidance Kit) GPS guided precision bomb system.

It seems the F-16 is going to be a true legend, both for international aviation society and for Turkish Air Force.

http://www.siyahgribeyaz.com/2010/05/f-16.html
 
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@ Quasar : Thanks mate ! So in short...if Pakistan were to order a couple of dozen block 50s we're not going to get them because most of the important stuff still is US manufactured and the rest probably needs their seal of approval ! I was hoping for otherwise because the F-16s are an absolute beauty.
 
@ Quasar : Thanks mate ! So in short...if Pakistan were to order a couple of dozen block 50s we're not going to get them because most of the important stuff still is US manufactured and the rest probably needs their seal of approval ! I was hoping for otherwise because the F-16s are an absolute beauty.

Sad but True!

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Sad but True!

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Well lets hope that the proposed TFX doesn't suffer from these same limitations because between that, the J-20, the J-10Bs and some latter blocks of the JF-17s the PAF could provide some pretty darn good competition !
 
Well, Pakistan's best military tech is its missiles and nukes but because of Turkey's '' no weapon or tech purchase of +300km missiles '' Pakistan and Turkey can't cooperate in that areas.

On tanks, Turkey and Pakistan has different needs. Pakistan needs tanks that could move in mpossible areas like Himalayas ( Like Alkaid and Indian Arjun ) and Turkey needs +60 ton tanks because of Greek Leo2A6s and Soviet's massive tank force. ( I think because of this that our cooperation with Pakistan limited with armor tech )

On naval tech which Turkey's best industry, Turkey did offered Milgem and semi-stealth designed patrol ships with know-how and local production but Pakistan had to choose option of upgrading its current navy because of economical problems.

On air warfare, Turkey needs proven aircraft against Hellenic Air Force which is one of the best in Europe and thats why we didn't go for JF-17. Although I wished that we could buy around 100 JF-17 and get rid of our Phantoms and F-5s but I don't think NATO would like that much or our budget can endure another multi billion dollar defence contract.


P.S: Sorry about crappy grammar and spellings, I still two more exams tommorow and I tried to write this post and read my notesat the same time.

Hey, but we did help Turkiye with the Altay tanks armour with (ToT)...
 
Well lets hope that the proposed TFX doesn't suffer from these same limitations because between that, the J-20, the J-10Bs and some latter blocks of the JF-17s the PAF could provide some pretty darn good competition !

One if not the strongest reasons why we go for a indigenous or half-indigenous fighter is to be independent from the US and maybe Europe too, we learned our lessons after they put a weapons embargo on us because of the Cyprus invasion back then.

In each scenario that has been discussed and proposed so far (with Brazil, Korea or Japan) there was never, not even an inch western technology in it.

Btw not all proposal were non-western:
Italy proposed the co-development of somekind of a next-generation Eurofighter
ECONOMICS - Italy wants to build first Turkish fighter jet plane

Hey, but we did help Turkiye with the Altay tanks armour with (ToT)...

I never head that before. Did we pay for it and if, do you know how much or was it part of a bigger deal, like with the F16. I need some background info.
 
Hey, but we did help Turkiye with the Altay tanks armour with (ToT)...

Metallurgy is one of the weak points of Turkish industry, so we need a technology transfer for armours. However, ToT is not coming from Pakistan, probably from Germany and South Korea. Otokar is a company which has deep roots with Israel's Rafael, tech can come from Jews too.
 
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