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Turkish Economy - News & Updates

What is the driving force behind Turkish Economic problem?

  • The on going Trump attack on Turkish Economy

    Votes: 29 19.9%
  • Jewish Agenda to weaken adjacent countries to Israel

    Votes: 36 24.7%
  • Internal Turkish economic problems

    Votes: 50 34.2%
  • Falling Exports for Turkey

    Votes: 5 3.4%
  • Loss of Tourism income for Turkey

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • External Loans or Debt impacting Economy

    Votes: 25 17.1%

  • Total voters
    146
A chart of inflation in some products.


A simple comparison between Turkey and USA:

  • Currency: Y
Min. wage in USA: ~10y/hour
Min. wage in Turkey: 8.13y/hour

Iphone X 64 gb in USA: 1.099 Y
Iphone X 64 gb in Turkey: 7.495 Y

  • Working Hour for buying an Ipone X 64 gb

- In USA: 1.099/10= 109,9 hours

- In Turkey: 7.495/8.13= 921 hours.


In last years it is very clear that Turkey experienced very hard economic warfare with some global players because of Erdogan's stand firm, not surrender against f..king USA policy in syria especially and S400, closing to Russia, Venezuela, protecting Qatar, making policy without seeking USA interests. Despite all diffuculties in 2018 Turkey now start to smoothing economical parameters well.
And the country you tried to compare Turkey with, biggest economy in the World ( and biggest gangster state manipulating everything in the way of their economic interests, ex: gangster attitude to huawei)

(It is good to say that in China min. wage 1400 yuan - appx 180 euro, 205 dollars,and every Turks knows well how much the min wage in old days before 2002, AKP ( ERDOGAN).)


Years----------Net Min Wage (TL) (Not Gross) ----------DOLAR Currency (TL)
2001----------122.186.520------------------------------1.251.537
2002----------184.251.937------------------------------1.573.152 (117 dollars)
2003----------225.999.000------------------------------1.402.799
2004----------318.233.475------------------------------1.466.527
2019----------2020 TL------------------------------5.35 (377 Dollars now, and will be better inshallah )
 
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In last years it is very clear that Turkey experienced very hard economic warfare with some global players because of Erdogan's stand firm, not surrender against f..king USA policy in syria especially and S400, closing to Russia, Venezuela, protecting Qatar, making policy without seeking USA interests. Despite all diffuculties in 2018 Turkey now start to smoothing economical parameters well.
And the country you tried to compare Turkey with, biggest economy in the World ( and biggest gangster state manipulating everything in the way of their economic interests, ex: gangster attitude to huawei)

(It is good to say that in China min. wage 1400 yuan - appx 180 euro, 205 dollars,and every Turks knows well how much the min wage in old days before 2002, AKP ( ERDOGAN).)


Years----------Net Min Wage (TL) (Not Gross) ----------DOLAR Currency (TL)
2001----------122.186.520------------------------------1.251.537
2002----------184.251.937------------------------------1.573.152 (117 dollars)
2003----------225.999.000------------------------------1.402.799
2004----------318.233.475------------------------------1.466.527
2019----------2020 TL------------------------------5.35 (377 Dollars now, and will be better inshallah )
Well lets hold our horses shall we?

USD too loses its value, and just like we are now, we were always an emerging economy and emerging economies are not only expected to grow, but they are expected to grow far faster than advanced economies in ratio.

Soo, lets look at some stats and do some basic math!

Turkey's population was about 65 million in 2002. At the end of 2017 it is estimated to have reached 82.835.090 people.

That is a whopping increase of 27.5%!

Our nominal GDP was $238.4B in 2002. At the end of 2017 it was around $851.5B. But this is the current USD value and USD lost about 40% of its value between 2002 and the end of 2017. When adjusted to that our gdp at the end of 2017 was about $608.2B in 2002 USD values.

And that would mean an economic growth of about 155% from 2002 to the end of 2017.

And guess what, our economy will shrink for a few years to come due to all this 155% economic growth having been done by bubbles, and there is also a busting cycle of bubbles that too will take too much time. And that means our testing time range of 16 years will actually be even bigger in the future while having an even smaller gdp and bigger population.

Keep all these in mind when trying to evaluate a government's economic success.

Now where were we.. Right, 155% economic and 27.5% population growth over 16 years.

That means the gdp per capita has risen an impressive 100% during these 16 years.

And that also means an actually-very-impressive annual growth of gdp per capita of around 4.4%!

But again, this average annual gdp per capita growth rate has been done during the boom stage. But a full cycle isnt only made up by a boom stage, it also includes the bust stage too.

turkey-gdp-constant-prices@2x.png

As you guys can see out of this bubble-burst (or boom-bust) graph of constant-priced GDP, in the long term economies tend to scale upward in an exponential curve.

That is because real economic growth in the long run tends to be the same.

But while 5% economic growth of 1000B leads to 1050B, the next year's 5% growth will lead to 1102.5B, and thus exponential.

Our economy is expected to stay in recession for at least two years. That would be 2021 as the ending.

AKP came in 2002, that would be a 19 years of governance with at least the current gdp levels.

As you can see from the graph our gdp was fluctuating around (due to the keynesian economic policies that I dont support) $175B. And the latest data isnt in, but it is seen that we were going for the boom cycle's edge in 2017 (due to the negative real interest rates our smart government was running), and now it is obvious that we are experiencing that cycle's bust part.

And Id say the bust would be at around $400B in the best case scenario.

So ok, now lets do the simple math:

Average growth = (root*19)(400B / 175B) - 1
= (root*19)(2.286) - 1
= 1.044 - 1
= 0.044
= 4.4%

As you guys can see, what they did was not extraordinary in the slightest.

An emerging economy growing 4.4% annually is not something to be surprised about.

Here in this post I also included the few years ahead, so a part of the bust cycle, into my calculation of average gdp growth.

(And oh the found 4.4% result there has no relation to the 4.4% I just found for my new calculation in this post! The metrics and the time frames are all different! The values are equal just by a big coincidence!)

And so when you actually include a part of the estimated bust cycle we would get a gdp per capita growth of about 47.5% over 19 years and that would mean a 2% annual growth rate of gdp per capita which, again, is not bad at all!!! But it is still no where close to what you people try to illustrate all around! It is actually a rate that should be expected from an emerging economy which, again, isnt bad! It is actually pretty good!

I also didnt even bash your AKP. My post above yours doesnt really say anything against AKP or your beloved Erdogan. I just merely stated some facts to break some delusions here and there and that is it. I dont even support gdp growth as a whole, couldnt care less about it. I am more of a Hayekian so that I am more efficiency-focused rather than Keynesian quantity orientation. So I think even if gdp were to fall, as long as gdp per capita is rising in real value I am totally fine with that. What I am not fine with however is the exaggeration of either sides' delusional worldviews.

But I also admit that any other party would have done far worse than Erdogan's government as most of them are just outright communist, but that is a different topic.
 
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Well lets hold our horses shall we?

USD too loses its value, and just like we are now, we were always an emerging economy and emerging economies are not only expected to grow, but they are expected to grow far faster than advanced economies in ratio.

Soo, lets look at some stats and do some basic math!

Turkey's population was about 65 million in 2002. At the end of 2017 it is estimated to have reached 82.835.090 people.

That is a whopping increase of 27.5%!

Our nominal GDP was $238.4B in 2002. At the end of 2017 it was around $851.5B. But this is the current USD value and USD lost about 40% of its value between 2002 and the end of 2017. When adjusted to that our gdp at the end of 2017 was about $608.2B in 2002 USD values.

And that would mean an economic growth of about 155% from 2002 to the end of 2017.

And guess what, our economy will shrink for a few years to come due to all this 155% economic growth having been done by bubbles, and there is also a busting cycle of bubbles that too will take too much time. And that means our testing time range of 16 years will actually be even bigger in the future while having an even smaller gdp and bigger population.

Keep all these in mind when trying to evaluate a government's economic success.

Now where were we.. Right, 155% economic and 27.5% population growth over 16 years.

That means the gdp per capita has risen an impressive 100% during these 16 years.

And that also means an actually-very-impressive annual growth of gdp per capita of around 4.4%!

But again, this average annual gdp per capita growth rate has been done during the boom stage. But a full cycle isnt only made up by a boom stage, it also includes the bust stage too.



Here in this post I also included the few years ahead, so a part of the bust cycle, into my calculation of average gdp growth.

(And oh the found 4.4% result there has no relation to the 4.4% I just found for my new calculation in this post! The metrics and the time frames are all different! The values are equal just by a big coincidence!)

And so when you actually include a part of the estimated bust cycle we would get a gdp per capita growth of about 47.5% over 19 years and that would mean a 2% annual growth rate of gdp per capita which, again, is not bad at all!!! But it is still no where close to what you people try to illustrate all around! It is actually a rate that should be expected from an emerging economy which, again, isnt bad! It is actually pretty good!

I also didnt even bash your AKP. My post above yours doesnt really say anything against AKP or your beloved Erdogan. I just merely stated some facts to break some delusions here and there and that is it. I dont even support gdp growth as a whole, couldnt care less about it. I am more of a Hayekian so that I am more efficiency-focused rather than Keynesian quantity orientation. So I think even if gdp were to fall, as long as gdp per capita is rising in real value I am totally fine with that. What I am not fine with however is the exaggeration of either sides' delusional worldviews.

But I also admit that any other party would have done far worse than Erdogan's government as most of them are just outright communist, but that is a different topic.
Our nominal GDP was $238.4B in 2002. At the end of 2017 it was around $851.5B. But this is the current USD value and USD lost about 40% of its value between 2002 and the end of 2017. When adjusted to that our gdp at the end of 2017 was about $608.2B in 2002 USD values.

And that would mean an economic growth of about 155% from 2002 to the end of 2017.


That piece of the story is very funny, you show us economic parameter's flexible interpretation feature. However partially you right what you told but not everypoint because which story you want to tell us depends on your viewpoint in economy.
Anyway No need to strach it. But good to explain one point. Yes, Erdogan is my beloved because i believe the only one, capable to defend my country in the World is Erdogan. And surely there is not ocean without storm and there is not easy sovereignty. In my opinion Erdogan doing his job best.
 
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My mom asked me this past weekend, how come she owes 240.000 dkk when all she had asked for was to borrow 60.000 tl. My mom may be a typical Turkish person who borrows from relatives. She is unaware that just because we live outside of turkey that our salary of bank account don’t automatically hold tl for daily use. Back then with a new currency the exchange rate was pretty fucked up 1:4 for tl to dkk. My relatives are like that too. Want to borrow tl as if I would keep my money in tl. I did lend to my aunt and she paid me back, but with the stupid delays I got the money I lent her back with loss of 20%.

I think Turkeys economy could be worse if not for forcing ppl to use tl for contracts and such. But ppl have the right to expect at least a 0% loss in value as a minimum even when converting to different currency.
 
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That piece of the story is very funny, you show us economic parameter's flexible interpretation feature. However partially you right what you told but not everypoint because which story you want to tell us depends on your viewpoint in economy.
Well I think this is the funny part. What will happen if USD would lose 90% of its value overnight?

Would you say "Turkey had $238B of nominal gdp in 2002 but now in 2018 it has 8.5 trillion dollars of gdp!!" ???

What would you say if Turkey's gdp had actually fallen by 50% since 2002 from $200B to $100B, but just because, hypothetically, USD lost 90% of its value would you still say "Oh look in 2002 we had $200B, and now in 2018 we have $1trillion ((200B / 2) * (10%)^-1 = 1.000B) !!!" ??

What matters are not just random nominal numbers. If you are going to compare our gdp to 2002's gdp in 2002's USD, then you also have to use our current gdp in 2018 in 2002's USD values.
 
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In last years it is very clear that Turkey experienced very hard economic warfare with some global players because of Erdogan's stand firm, not surrender against f..king USA policy in syria especially and S400, closing to Russia, Venezuela, protecting Qatar, making policy without seeking USA interests. Despite all diffuculties in 2018 Turkey now start to smoothing economical parameters well.
And the country you tried to compare Turkey with, biggest economy in the World ( and biggest gangster state manipulating everything in the way of their economic interests, ex: gangster attitude to huawei)

(It is good to say that in China min. wage 1400 yuan - appx 180 euro, 205 dollars,and every Turks knows well how much the min wage in old days before 2002, AKP ( ERDOGAN).)


Years----------Net Min Wage (TL) (Not Gross) ----------DOLAR Currency (TL)
2001----------122.186.520------------------------------1.251.537
2002----------184.251.937------------------------------1.573.152 (117 dollars)
2003----------225.999.000------------------------------1.402.799
2004----------318.233.475------------------------------1.466.527
2019----------2020 TL------------------------------5.35 (377 Dollars now, and will be better inshallah )

I am ready to buy your stories and excuses on one condition. If you can answer how to pay the debt back. In doing so, you will meet the realities of Turkey in real sectors.

The current total external debt of Turkey: $448.4+ billion


Here is some clue why you will not be able toanswer but make up more stories and excuses.


 
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I am ready to buy your stories and excuses on one condition. If you can answer how to pay the debt back. In doing so, you will meet the realities of Turkey in real sectors.

The current total external debt of Turkey: $448.4+ billion


Here is some clue why you will not be able toanswer but make up more stories and excuses.


Fake news, as always they did. :D

Her seçim öncesi IMF geliyor, eyalet sistemi kuruluyor. Biri de hdpkkli Kadıköy ve İzmir adayından bahsetmiyor. Ama koyun hep başkası. Her seçim gülüyorum bu haberlere, çaresiz zavallılar. Yakında seçimde hile haberleri baslayacak şimdiden haber vereyim. :D
 
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2003 - 47.252.836 $


63.167.153
73.476.408
85.534.676
107.271.750
132.027.196
102.142.613
113.883.219
134.906.869
152.461.737
151.802.637
157.610.158
143.838.871
142.529.584
156.992.940

2018 - 168.087.637 $

Turkey's annual export figures from 2002 to 2018.

Source: TIM


Chinese export data for the same period:
446 billion USD 2003
2.48 trillion USD 2018

From 2003 to 2018, China's overall export figure increased by a factor of ~5,5.
From 2003 to 2018, Turkey's overall export figure increased by a factor of ~3,7.

Our overrated currency at the beginning of the new millennium destroyed our long-term performance.
 
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Well lets hold our horses shall we?

USD too loses its value, and just like we are now, we were always an emerging economy and emerging economies are not only expected to grow, but they are expected to grow far faster than advanced economies in ratio.

Soo, lets look at some stats and do some basic math!

Turkey's population was about 65 million in 2002. At the end of 2017 it is estimated to have reached 82.835.090 people.

That is a whopping increase of 27.5%!

Our nominal GDP was $238.4B in 2002. At the end of 2017 it was around $851.5B. But this is the current USD value and USD lost about 40% of its value between 2002 and the end of 2017. When adjusted to that our gdp at the end of 2017 was about $608.2B in 2002 USD values.

And that would mean an economic growth of about 155% from 2002 to the end of 2017.

And guess what, our economy will shrink for a few years to come due to all this 155% economic growth having been done by bubbles, and there is also a busting cycle of bubbles that too will take too much time. And that means our testing time range of 16 years will actually be even bigger in the future while having an even smaller gdp and bigger population.

Keep all these in mind when trying to evaluate a government's economic success.

Now where were we.. Right, 155% economic and 27.5% population growth over 16 years.

That means the gdp per capita has risen an impressive 100% during these 16 years.

And that also means an actually-very-impressive annual growth of gdp per capita of around 4.4%!

But again, this average annual gdp per capita growth rate has been done during the boom stage. But a full cycle isnt only made up by a boom stage, it also includes the bust stage too.



Here in this post I also included the few years ahead, so a part of the bust cycle, into my calculation of average gdp growth.

(And oh the found 4.4% result there has no relation to the 4.4% I just found for my new calculation in this post! The metrics and the time frames are all different! The values are equal just by a big coincidence!)

And so when you actually include a part of the estimated bust cycle we would get a gdp per capita growth of about 47.5% over 19 years and that would mean a 2% annual growth rate of gdp per capita which, again, is not bad at all!!! But it is still no where close to what you people try to illustrate all around! It is actually a rate that should be expected from an emerging economy which, again, isnt bad! It is actually pretty good!

I also didnt even bash your AKP. My post above yours doesnt really say anything against AKP or your beloved Erdogan. I just merely stated some facts to break some delusions here and there and that is it. I dont even support gdp growth as a whole, couldnt care less about it. I am more of a Hayekian so that I am more efficiency-focused rather than Keynesian quantity orientation. So I think even if gdp were to fall, as long as gdp per capita is rising in real value I am totally fine with that. What I am not fine with however is the exaggeration of either sides' delusional worldviews.

But I also admit that any other party would have done far worse than Erdogan's government as most of them are just outright communist, but that is a different topic.

Why use nominal GDP numbers and not adjust to purchasing power? Turks don’t spend dollars, they spend liras. Overwhelming majority of Turks will never have to use dollar in their transactions, property purchases, and so on.

Turkey’s growth and rise in living standards have been very impressive when measured by adjusting dollar. Although it can be critiqued that it was all credit fuelled but that’s a whole diff topic

Turkish GDP per capita in real purchasing power terms is around $30k. Turkey is pretty much an industrialized developed country as of this point. Wouldn’t call it “emerging” economy similar to that of under developed regions like india or Africa etc. Yes, there’s still alottt of growth within Turkish economy thanks to solid fundamentals and demography, but Turkey is a step above “emerging economies” as of today.
 
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Why use nominal GDP numbers and not adjust to purchasing power? Turks don’t spend dollars, they spend liras. Overwhelming majority of Turks will never have to use dollar in their transactions, property purchases, and so on.
Cant say that per-se since many things Turks consume is being imported with dollar, so in a sense Turks do spend dollar.
 
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Cant say that per-se since many things Turks consume is being imported with dollar, so in a sense Turks do spend dollar.

Turkish businesses might spend dollar for import of goods and raw materials, but Turkish consumer doesn’t directly spend dollar.

Secondly, consumer prices in Turkey are still lower than many European countries with similar income levels. So everything is not that bad.

Average Turkish consumer’s living standard increased significantly over the past two decades. This bottom line can’t be denied.

Now the challenge is to go towards an export oriented consumer economy with manageable levels of credit and debts. This is a great opportunity for Turkey to stop trying to “stabilise” lira and increase its competitiveness on the exports side by taking full benefit of weakened (correctly priced?) lira.

When is Turkish car brand launching its product? Turkey should aim to become another S.Korea when it comes to automobile exports.
 
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Turkish businesses might spend dollar for import of goods and raw materials, but Turkish consumer doesn’t directly spend dollar.

Secondly, consumer prices in Turkey are still lower than many European countries with similar income levels. So everything is not that bad.

Average Turkish consumer’s living standard increased significantly over the past two decades. This bottom line can’t be denied.

Now the challenge is to go towards an export oriented consumer economy with manageable levels of credit and debts. This is a great opportunity for Turkey to stop trying to “stabilise” lira and increase its competitiveness on the exports side by taking full benefit of weakened (correctly priced?) lira.

When is Turkish car brand launching its product? Turkey should aim to become another S.Korea when it comes to automobile exports.
Do you think the companies pay the price difference themselves? Ofcourse the prices hike, everything got more expensive you cant just claim that the exchange rate doesnt have an effect on consumer when the opposite is happening right now.

When is Turkish car brand launching its product?
I have given up on this dream because of fiasco after fiasco.
 
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