Turkish Cypriot Dep PM: The EU is insincere with Turkey

[xenon54 out]

Bros, can you read the conversation between me and markuss and present your views, please ?

Its very complicated situation, i dont dare to make any predictions, you know Erdogan he often changes his mind in the last second, maybe he is trying to buy time while fighting pkk, you never know when its about Erdogan, just gonna sit it out.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I agree with Sinan. People tend to extremely underestimate Erdogan. He may be a despot, he may be a megalomaniac, but he is one hell of a cunning politician who knows how to amass support from the public he understands. Erdogan understands the grievances of Turks he tries to catch all votes, at the same time he tries to indoctrinate his thoughts, ideas and values into people. Interestingly enough, he succeeds at doing all of this, because lets face it folks, this cunning politician is the most intelligent and charismatic Turkish politician since Atatürk.
I'll just post a small part of something i wrote some time ago about Erdogan's past:


As the Mayor of Istanbul, Erdogan had challenged the official narrative of Turkish history, thereby Kemalism via the celebrations of the Conquest of Constantinople. The pervasiveness of liberal values, such as freedom of religion, was evident in his speech in 1997 when he asked “God for the recovery of the freedom of religion that was granted by Mehmet the Conqueror”[1]. It seems Erdogan was keenly aware that contesting the national memory required a broad political backing. listening and fighting for Muslim grievances, alone, wouldn’t suffice…

Dont you guys think its interesting that conquest of Istanbul came to the forefront under Erdogans Mayorship in Istanbul in 1994-1997. And after he became prime minster+president conquest of Istanbul has become a big part of Turkey's national commemoration that we almost all accept. In the past the military objected Erdogan's remarks etc. In 20 years time he has managed to change the landscape of Turkey. You may hate him, and you have every right to do so, but if anyone wants to challenge him, they need to outsmart him. And this is impossible at this stage. Today he is dominating everything in Turkey. And i won't be surprised if his influence absorbs Europe in 1 or 2 decades

Lets give a seconds thought. He was imprisoned, he strategized with his friends in prison after realizing the realities of Turkish political landscape. He came out, erased his bans, created the AKP, and since 2002 won every single election and every consecutive election with growth.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

Guys, I have followed with interest your correspondence, especially @Sinan insight about Turkey`s domestic policy has given me new input, will keep this in mind. But funny, i have seen the same similarities between Hitler and Erdogan, NSDAP and AKP some time ago, too. I don`t say the both are the same, but the political takeover could be compare, i think.
If we take a look in Germany, 32`/33, the NSDAP get the first losses in the election of 32`, than had happened the Reichstagbrand, the last elections were already dubios and the nazis get the power for restructuring of the political system.
Nowadays, the AKP get the first losses in the last elections, than the internal situation exploded...something to think about this.

Believe me this women is by far the most intelligent, cold blooded ruler of the world. Evry step she does is calculated. At first it looks like an accident and mistake and then it turns around to be a masterpiece of a conspiracy. That way she rose to power. You see similaerities between Erdogan and Hitler. I see similarities between Merkel and Emperor Palpatine in Star Wars.

No, she isn`t. Of course, merkel has read her machiavelli and she has internalized the lections, but she ist not a mastermind. Indeed, it had existed some situations in the past, where she, like any normal human being, simply was rolled over by the events.

Meanwhile she killed off any oppossition in germany. All parties sing her song. Its like she hovers above the realm of daily politics. Now that the refugee crisis is solved she climbs even higher...

No, not all parties, even in her own party, she isn`t without controversy, sometimes louder, sometimes quieter. Most members in her party think, she is responsible for the rise of the AfD, just the fact that she actually killed any internal opposition, has prevented any open power struggle. There is no challenger at this time...and until the next election there will be no one.
The CDU has actually no plan except the person Angela Merkel, but to be honest, this will be enough, some losses in votes could be balanced by a greater coalition.

Now that the refugee crisis is solved she climbs even higher...

The refugee crisis is over...really? Heck, i didn`t get the memo.

On the other side turkey is trapped in EU complicated system. Merkel promised something she has no official power into. Davutoglu made a deal with the german chancellor between Turkey and all of europe. France, Italy, Spain and so on.

Yes, Davutoglu has made a mistake. He didn`t analyze the internal dynamics within the EU, he didn`t recognised that Germany stands alone and latest the changeover of Austria should give him something to think about.

Believe me there are not many who can stand against Merkel. She reduced the french president into her sidekick...She is feared in Europe.

The problem is, most leaders in Europe are under pressure by domestic political opposition, not the best moment to seek more stress extern. If she were really feared, the other countries would take some migrants from us, greece or italy...i didn`t see that happen.

Remember when new government of greece tried to gain alliance with france and italy against germany? Neitehr the french president nor our pm dared to do anything. Even Putin didnt support greece to not anger Merkel.

Why should they do anything, greece isn`t important enough for them to seek some dispute with Merkel.

People tend to extremely underestimate Erdogan. He may be a despot, he may be a megalomaniac, but he is one hell of a cunning politician who knows how to amass support from the public he understands. Erdogan understands the grievances of Turks he tries to catch all votes, at the same time he tries to indoctrinate his thoughts, ideas and values into people.
Lets give a seconds thought. He was imprisoned, he strategized with his friends in prison after realizing the realities of Turkish political landscape. He came out, erased his bans, created the AKP, and since 2002 won every single election and every consecutive election with growth.

I don`t want to insult anyone, but i could replace the name Erdogan with Hitler...and i would not write anything false about the history. Everything you have now enumerated @Zulkarneyn was just for our lunatic, too.

 

[MarkusS]

I agree with Sinan. People tend to extremely underestimate Erdogan. He may be a despot, he may be a megalomaniac, but he is one hell of a cunning politician who knows how to amass support from the public he understands. Erdogan understands the grievances of Turks he tries to catch all votes, at the same time he tries to indoctrinate his thoughts, ideas and values into people. Interestingly enough, he succeeds at doing all of this, because lets face it folks, this cunning politician is the most intelligent and charismatic Turkish politician since Atatürk.
I'll just post a small part of something i wrote some time ago about Erdogan's past:


As the Mayor of Istanbul, Erdogan had challenged the official narrative of Turkish history, thereby Kemalism via the celebrations of the Conquest of Constantinople. The pervasiveness of liberal values, such as freedom of religion, was evident in his speech in 1997 when he asked “God for the recovery of the freedom of religion that was granted by Mehmet the Conqueror”[1]. It seems Erdogan was keenly aware that contesting the national memory required a broad political backing. listening and fighting for Muslim grievances, alone, wouldn’t suffice…

Dont you guys think its interesting that conquest of Istanbul came to the forefront under Erdogans Mayorship in Istanbul in 1994-1997. And after he became prime minster+president conquest of Istanbul has become a big part of Turkey's national commemoration that we almost all accept. In the past the military objected Erdogan's remarks etc. In 20 years time he has managed to change the landscape of Turkey. You may hate him, and you have every right to do so, but if anyone wants to challenge him, they need to outsmart him. And this is impossible at this stage. Today he is dominating everything in Turkey. And i won't be surprised if his influence absorbs Europe in 1 or 2 decades

Lets give a seconds thought. He was imprisoned, he strategized with his friends in prison after realizing the realities of Turkish political landscape. He came out, erased his bans, created the AKP, and since 2002 won every single election and every consecutive election with growth.

Did you really just say you belieev turkey will occupy europe in next 20 years?

 

[bsruzm]

I don`t want to insult anyone, but i could replace the name Erdogan with Hitler...

We are not German. No Turk will turn children into soaps or have medical experiments on them.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Did you really just say you belieev turkey will occupy europe in next 20 years?

Is occupation and influence the same thing in Italy?

I don`t want to insult anyone, but i could replace the name Erdogan with Hitler...and i would not write anything false about the history. Everything you have now enumerated @Zulkarneyn was just for our lunatic, too.

I dont take it as an insult at all. I recognized the exact same pattern you and Sinan talked about as well and i mentioned this once before. If you look at the last 15 years of Turkey you will recognize similarities with German Reich of 1871-1919 and Hitler's Germany. In about 15 years Erdogan has conquered every single institution in Turkey including all the media. He has repeatedly underlined the importance of national arms industry and he even married one of his daughters to the boss of Albayrak, the private UAV producer that's one of the few in the World operating. If you just follow the grand investments in Turkey, both in terms of major infrastructure projects, like giant bridges, giant airports, universities, giant hospitals, the almost tripling of highways etc.
The agressive development in arms industry is directly comparable with the first Reich. And remember, Britain and France felt intimidated by the industrial growth of Germany that was hugely outcompeting them. And the War happened as a result of this

 

[MarkusS]

Don't worry, we are not German. No Turk will turn children into soaps or have medical experiments on them.

I´m sure you would. As evry human is able to do so. Ever heared about Unit 731 from Japan? They did things that are unmatched in barbarism.

Is occupation and influence the same thing in Italy?

I dont take it as an insult at all. I recognized the exact same pattern you and Sinan talked about as well and i mentioned this once before. If you look at the last 15 years of Turkey you will recognize similarities with German Reich of 1871-1919 and Hitler's Germany. In about 15 years Erdogan has conquered every single institution in Turkey including all the media. He has repeatedly underlined the importance of national arms industry and he even married one of his daughters to the boss of Albayrak, the private UAV producer that's one of the few in the World operating. If you just follow the grand investments in Turkey, both in terms of major infrastructure projects, like giant bridges, giant airports, universities, giant hospitals, the almost tripling of highways etc.
The agressive development in arms industry is directly comparable with the first Reich. And remember, Britain and France felt intimidated by the industrial growth of Germany that was hugely outcompeting them. And the War happened as a result of this

How does this "influence" look for you? Would be nice to understand what you mean.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

How does this "influence" look for you? Would be nice to understand what you mean

I explained it, read closely. The same way he took over the Turkish landscape, it wouldn't surprise me the growth of Turkish influence in Europe - as Europe ages and Turkish population is young and vibrant. Even if the economy grows at a stready 5% yearly with stabil population you don't need to be a wizard to recognize Turkey's growing influence in Europe. 15 years ago Turkey was an insignificant country that begged for money by the IMF and had no influence over Europe. Today Erdogan can even influence Mama Merkal because of the Refugee crisis card he plays manipulatively and still keep freidnly relations with Europe. This is influence

And congrats with the win. It was a really nice goal against sweden. It seems the old Italian legend is returning to the football scene

 

[bsruzm]

I´m sure you would. As evry human is able to do so. Ever heared about Unit 731 from Japan? They did things that are unmatched in barbarism.

We are not Japan, too. You are sure of yourself, not me.

 

[MarkusS]

We are not Japan, too. You are sure of yourself, not me.

What you did to the Armenians or in Ottoman times showed the very same things that happened in Auschwitz or Japan.

I explained it, read closely. The same way he took over the Turkish landscape, it wouldn't surprise me the growth of Turkish influence in Europe - as Europe ages and Turkish population is young and vibrant. Even if the economy grows at a stready 5% yearly with stabil population you don't need to be a wizard to recognize Turkey's growing influence in Europe. 15 years ago Turkey was an insignificant country that begged for money by the IMF and had no influence over Europe. Today Erdogan can even influence Mama Merkal because of the Refugee crisis card he plays manipulatively and still keep freidnly relations with Europe. This is influence

And congrats with the win. It was a really nice goal against sweden. It seems the old Italian legend is returning to the football scene

Turkeys influence in europe is actually shrinking. Evry single deal busted recently. No free visa, turkey isolated and out ect.

Turkey nver had influence in italy. And never will have. Before you have to change to christianity amigo.

 

[-SINAN-]

Guys, I have followed with interest your correspondence, especially @Sinan insight about Turkey`s domestic policy has given me new input, will keep this in mind. But funny, i have seen the same similarities between Hitler and Erdogan, NSDAP and AKP some time ago, too. I don`t say the both are the same, but the political takeover could be compare, i think.
If we take a look in Germany, 32`/33, the NSDAP get the first losses in the election of 32`, than had happened the Reichstagbrand, the last elections were already dubios and the nazis get the power for restructuring of the political system.
Nowadays, the AKP get the first losses in the last elections, than the internal situation exploded...something to think about this.

In the documentary i watched. It was being said that. Hitler presented himself as a man amongst the people, shown himself like had been jailed unjustly...While showing himself as poor, he lived a luxurious life. In his speeches he said somethings like "I'm a slave for the country, i work only for the Germany and German people nothing more"....Erdoğan does the same thing.

@Zulkarneyn @MarkusS

In mere minutes, you managed to shift an intellectual debate, to a piss race......congrats.

I'm out.

 

[bsruzm]

What you did to the Armenians or in Ottoman times showed the very same things that happened in Auschwitz or Japan.

You make as much sense as German parliament on a historical matter.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

We are not German. No Turk will turn children into soaps or have medical experiments on them.

Germany was one of the highest educated countries in this times...and we still had done such things.
Nobody is immune against such barbarism, everyone is able to do actions like this, out of the different reasons.

Who didn`t learn anything from history, is doomed to repeat it.

You make as much sense as German parliament on a historical matter.

You are right, we should not have put this forward, for different reasons.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

@Sinan have i turned it to a pissing contest?
Markus couldn't stop himself from repeating the same nonsense instead of approaching things with a clear head and non-bias. I've provided my opinion on the development of Turkish politics that resemble the second and third reich of Germany due to expansive political takeover+agressive military development.

 

[MarkusS]

@Sinan have i turned it to a pissing contest?
Markus couldn't stop himself from repeating the same nonsense instead of approaching things with a clear head and non-bias. I've provided my opinion on the development of Turkish politics that resemble the second and third reich of Germany due to expansive political takeover+agressive military development.

You insulted my country and my people. What do you actually expect?