Turkish Cypriot Dep PM: The EU is insincere with Turkey

[-SINAN-]

Ask your demented president. Those 72 points are unchanged since they were created in 2013.

Here you see Hollande mentioned them in march:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/re...sa-liberalisation-Turkey-72-criteria-met.html

My guess is that Erdogan suspected the Eu would betray its own principles and believed he can get rid of it.

Those criteria stand like rock. Turkey either meets them or doesnt.

Turkey knows those 72 points exactly since 16 december 2013. They signed the Visa Liberalisation Dialogue that day:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-1625_en.htm

Like i said before..if you wanna discuss, drop the derogatory terms....If you wanna continue the way you do. Just don't quote me as i won't answer.

 

[MarkusS]

Like i said before..if you wanna discuss, drop the derogatory terms....If you wanna continue the way you do. Just don't quote me as i won't answer.

Ok minus the "deragotary terms"

you now know your government knows those 72 points since december 2013 as it signed the VDL roadmap.

Infact it knows those points since 2001 when they were created and i assume your government is informed about diplomatic important regulations. Those critera are the standard criteria evry country must meet.

Few days ago Erdogan said he wont change this point 72 and said to us europeans we should go our way and you go yours. I guess he estimated that the EU would give by. The oppossite happened as the EU closed talks and denied the Visa free travel because the criteria arent meet.

So i wonder why Erdogan acts now like those points came out of the blue?

 

[-SINAN-]

Ok minus the "deragotary terms"

you now know your government knows those 72 points since december 2013 as it signed the VDL roadmap.

Infact it knows those points since 2001 when they were created and i assume your government is informed about diplomatic important regulations. Those critera are the standard criteria evry country must meet.

Few days ago Erdogan said he wont change this point 72 and said to us europeans we should go our way and you go yours. I guess he estimated that the EU would give by. The oppossite happened as the EU closed talks and denied the Visa free travel because the criteria arent meet.

So i wonder why Erdogan acts now like those points came out of the blue?

Yeah, i'm saying the same things.

That sounds stupid, right ? And Turkey knew those points beforehand....so, why we are refusing to accept the terms now ?

I don't know, why he is doing that.....I can't even speculate....so, weird.

 

[MarkusS]

Yeah, i'm saying the same things.



I don't know, why he is doing that.....I can't even speculate....so, weird.

out of interest and i mean this honestly. Dont you feel betrayed when your president starts such a drama and tells his own people that those points came out of the blue...when it turns out he knew them since december 2013?

and also if roles were turned...you made an agreement with italy for visa free travel..we sign the deal and promise you to fullfill all points you demand.,,then before the end we denie one point. Say its unfair and want it changed and say we never knew about it...would you change it when you used exactly those points on evry other country?

 

[-SINAN-]

out of interest and i mean this honestly. Dont you feel betrayed when your president starts such a drama and tells his own people that those points came out of the blue...when it turns out he knew them since december 2013?

No, actually, i'm just curious.

And he doesn't say like that... He says "EU wants to change our terror laws while we are fighting against 3 terrorist organizations. It will hinder our efforts against terrorism".

and also if roles were turned...you made an agreement with italy for visa free travel..we sign the deal and promise you to fullfill all points you demand.,,then before the end we denie one point. Say its unfair and want it changed and say we never knew about it...would you change it when you used exactly those points on evry other country?

Yeah, i'm not arguing about it...it's exactly like that.

 

[MarkusS]

No, actually, i'm just curious.

And he doesn't say like that... He says "EU wants to change our terror laws while we are fighting against 3 terrorist organizations. It will hinder our efforts against terrorism".



Yeah, i'm not arguing about it...it's exactly like that.

EU doesnt want change your terror laws. Turkey wants free visa for its citizens. To get free visa you must fullfill those 72 points. In the end turkey must decide if it wants visa free travel or not.

 

[-SINAN-]

EU doesnt want change your terror laws. Turkey wants free visa for its citizens. To get free visa you must fullfill those 72 points. In the end turkey must decide if it wants visa free travel or not.

I know.....i'm saying, "Erdogan uses the situation like that"...

 

[MarkusS]

I know.....i'm saying, "Erdogan uses the situation like that"...

Thats ok. He is free to run his country as he pleases and if this is his "face saving" option so be it.

There were many mistakes done by both sides.

1. it was wrong to combine the visa thing with the refugee deal.

2. Unfair and far too great promises from EU side. Evryone knew this wont gonna happen.

3. the deal was made from persons who had no final authority over it. Chancellor Merkel speaks just for germany and even at home she could only bring this promises through her authority. In Turkey it was done by Davutoglu who is not as hot headed as Erdogan. But now the EU chief Schulz has it in his hands who is pretty much hardcore as is Erdogan on the other side. So its like a train wreck in slow motion...

I guess in the end evrything stays as it is and alot of hot air was produced.

btw Sinan im at a train to Milano right now and next me sits an elderly women from Bursa. We had some smalltalk and she told me she is a retired english and latin teacher. She came to italy to paint and translate old roman scriptures. She showed me some of her work. It looks impressive. Didn´t know you could learn latin or roman history over there. I dont know though if she is school teacher or professor at a university.

 

[-SINAN-]

Thats ok. He is free to run his country as he pleases and if this is his "face saving" option so be it.

There were many mistakes done by both sides.

1. it was wrong to combine the visa thing with the refugee deal.

2. Unfair and far too great promises from EU side. Evryone knew this wont gonna happen.

3. the deal was made from persons who had no final authority over it. Chancellor Merkel speaks just for germany and even at home she could only bring this promises through her authority. In Turkey it was done by Davutoglu who is not as hot headed as Erdogan. But now the EU chief Schulz has it in his hands who is pretty much hardcore as is Erdogan on the other side. So its like a train wreck in slow motion...

I guess in the end evrything stays as it is and alot of hot air was produced.

Agreed on all the things you say... but there is one thing i don't agree.

Erdoğan is not a hot head like people describes him....he is a different kind.

In example, he never gaves a rushed speech after an incident...let's say downing of the Russian jet or Soma mine disaster. He don't give a speech with the heat of the moment. He brings in his advisers, ministers and officials, talk over the incident. After a day or two he gives a speech. In that speech might very loud and angry but it's a calculated thing.

More over his tone and vocabulary that he uses differs, when addresing;

- EU, US
- Muslim Countries
- Allies
- Common People
- Interviews
- Academics
- Civil servants

He uses a different tone, vocabulary, it's all calculated.

While addressing to common people;

While addressing to academics;

You know, yesterday i was watching a documentary in National Geographic channel about "How Hitler came to power"....i saw similarities between Erdoğan and him.....

btw Sinan im at a train to Milano right now and next me sits an elderly women from Bursa. We had some smalltalk and she told me she is a retired english and latin teacher. She came to italy to paint and translate old roman scriptures. She showed me some of her work. It looks impressive. Didn´t know you could learn latin or roman history over there. I dont know though if she is school teacher or professor at a university.

Probably a university teacher....we only learn Turkic history in school. I know, when it comes to art, some of our people prefers Italy. My cousin is an architect, after finishing her school, she went to Milano, worked there for 3-4 years to improve herself then came back to Turkey.

 

[MarkusS]

Agreed on all the things you say... but there is one thing i don't agree.

Erdoğan is not a hot head like people describes him....he is a different kind.

In example, he never gaves a rushed speech after an incident...let's say downing of the Russian jet or Soma mine disaster. He don't give a speech with the heat of the moment. He brings in his advisers, ministers and officials, talk over the incident. After a day or two he gives a speech. In that speech might very loud and angry but it's a calculated thing.

More over his tone and vocabulary that he uses differs, when addresing;

- EU, US
- Muslim Countries
- Allies
- Common People
- Interviews
- Academics
- Civil servants

He uses a different tone, vocabulary, it's all calculated.

While addressing to common people;

While addressing to academics;

You know, yesterday i was watching a documentary in National Geographic channel about "How Hitler came to power"....i saw similarities between Erdoğan and him.....





Probably a university teacher....we only learn Turkic history in school. I know, when it comes to art, some of our people prefers Italy. My cousin is an architect, after finishing her school, she went to Milano, worked there for 3-4 years to improve herself then came back to Turkey.

I believe Erdogan felt into a typical "Merkel Trap". I lived in germany. I know her ways. Believe me this women is by far the most intelligent, cold blooded ruler of the world. Evry step she does is calculated. At first it looks like an accident and mistake and then it turns around to be a masterpiece of a conspiracy. That way she rose to power. You see similaerities between Erdogan and Hitler. I see similarities between Merkel and Emperor Palpatine in Star Wars.

She always gets underestimated by her counterparts and then strikes...

I give you an example. You know how she became chancellor? At the beginning she was general secretary. She did always as ordered. Her party was led by the political titan Helmut Kohl and his planned Sucessor was Schäuble...Then suddenly a person that is still unknown ...published a report about black money. It was a scandal and Kohls renomee was touched...Then a few weeks later suddenly Merkel gave an interview where she critisized Kohl very hard.

Kohl was outraged...but not at Merkel. He believed she is too weak to do this alone. He suspected Schäuble. So he and schäuble started to battle against each other until they ruined their entire renomee and stepped back...and as the dust settled Merkel appeared and became leader and chancellor.

Meanwhile she killed off any oppossition in germany. All parties sing her song. Its like she hovers above the realm of daily politics. Now that the refugee crisis is solved she climbs even higher...

and thats where i see turkey mistake...Erdogan made the mistake to send Davutoglu. No hard feelings against this guy. Im sure he wants the best but he is no match against Merkel...Its said he met with her at that congress alone and she made him all kind of promises...like visa free entry for turks as well as EU membership...he was blinded and agreed.

Experts say they noticed Erdogan said nothing about this. They think he realized what happened. He may sometimes react strange but i doubt he is idiotic. He knew this wont work because he knows how the EU works. Turkey and EU arranged pretty fine the way it is. I think its a big reason why he removed Davutoglu...

because it happened as it had to happen. Turkey signed teh deal, closed its borders. The refugee numbers drop to minimum levels. And i fully acknowledge the hardships your country faces because of the refugee masses.

On the other side turkey is trapped in EU complicated system. Merkel promised something she has no official power into. Davutoglu made a deal with the german chancellor between Turkey and all of europe. France, Italy, Spain and so on. He did so within minutes without any consultations.

And now nothing is achieved for turkey. Erdogan knows this. Thats why he already said it wont be there anytime soon. He makes it public bit by bit to not bring the damage above himself. Meanwhile Merkel smiles and says she supports...she is certain...bla bla but does nothing .

I think Erdogans angry remarks against EU few weeks ago were a test balloon. That Schulz fired back that agressive showed that EU wont give by.

All the patriotic bla bla from both sides dont change the fact that turkey needs europe as biggest supporter and market and the EU needs turkey as gate keeper and a stable country in the region. Erdogan wont open the gates because he knows that would break relations with EU. On the other side evrything will stay as it is and EU will pay Turkey money to secure the boarder and ask no questions what happens at turkish southern border.

Believe me there are not many who can stand against Merkel. She reduced the french president into her sidekick...She is feared in Europe.

Remember when new government of greece tried to gain alliance with france and italy against germany? Neitehr the french president nor our pm dared to do anything. Even Putin didnt support greece to not anger Merkel.

Merkel met alone with Davutoglu. She made him feel important and he did something he propably had no authority to do.

Our PM Renzi is a little oppossition towards Merkel in EU. He once said he is extremly carfeul towards her. She somehow has the ability to whisper things into you that you see positive at first but end up be bad for you and good for her.


P.s.: I dont know why you guys always go Milano. I hate Milano. Its kinda cold there. The people are cold and not very italian from temprament and the city is arrogant with evry aspect ha ha

 

[-SINAN-]

I believe Erdogan felt into a typical "Merkel Trap". I lived in germany. I know her ways. Believe me this women is by far the most intelligent, cold blooded ruler of the world. Evry step she does is calculated. At first it looks like an accident and mistake and then it turns around to be a masterpiece of a conspiracy. That way she rose to power. You see similaerities between Erdogan and Hitler. I see similarities between Merkel and Emperor Palpatine in Star Wars.

She always gets underestimated by her counterparts and then strikes...

I give you an example. You know how she became chancellor? At the beginning she was general secretary. She did always as ordered. Her party was led by the political titan Helmut Kohl and his planned Sucessor was Schäuble...Then suddenly a person that is still unknown ...published a report about black money. It was a scandal and Kohls renomee was touched...Then a few weeks later suddenly Merkel gave an interview where she critisized Kohl very hard.

Kohl was outraged...but not at Merkel. He believed she is too weak to do this alone. He suspected Schäuble. So he and schäuble started to battle against each other until they ruined their entire renomee and stepped back...and as the dust settled Merkel appeared and became leader and chancellor.

Meanwhile she killed off any oppossition in germany. All parties sing her song. Its like she hovers above the realm of daily politics. Now that the refugee crisis is solved she climbs even higher...

and thats where i see turkey mistake...Erdogan made the mistake to send Davutoglu. No hard feelings against this guy. Im sure he wants the best but he is no match against Merkel...Its said he met with her at that congress alone and she made him all kind of promises...like visa free entry for turks as well as EU membership...he was blinded and agreed.

Experts say they noticed Erdogan said nothing about this. They think he realized what happened. He may sometimes react strange but i doubt he is idiotic. He knew this wont work because he knows how the EU works. Turkey and EU arranged pretty fine the way it is. I think its a big reason why he removed Davutoglu...

because it happened as it had to happen. Turkey signed teh deal, closed its borders. The refugee numbers drop to minimum levels. And i fully acknowledge the hardships your country faces because of the refugee masses.

On the other side turkey is trapped in EU complicated system. Merkel promised something she has no official power into. Davutoglu made a deal with the german chancellor between Turkey and all of europe. France, Italy, Spain and so on. He did so within minutes without any consultations.

And now nothing is achieved for turkey. Erdogan knows this. Thats why he already said it wont be there anytime soon. He makes it public bit by bit to not bring the damage above himself. Meanwhile Merkel smiles and says she supports...she is certain...bla bla but does nothing .

I think Erdogans angry remarks against EU few weeks ago were a test balloon. That Schulz fired back that agressive showed that EU wont give by.

All the patriotic bla bla from both sides dont change the fact that turkey needs europe as biggest supporter and market and the EU needs turkey as gate keeper and a stable country in the region. Erdogan wont open the gates because he knows that would break relations with EU. On the other side evrything will stay as it is and EU will pay Turkey money to secure the boarder and ask no questions what happens at turkish southern border.

Believe me there are not many who can stand against Merkel. She reduced the french president into her sidekick...She is feared in Europe.

Remember when new government of greece tried to gain alliance with france and italy against germany? Neitehr the french president nor our pm dared to do anything. Even Putin didnt support greece to not anger Merkel.

Merkel met alone with Davutoglu. She made him feel important and he did something he propably had no authority to do.

Our PM Renzi is a little oppossition towards Merkel in EU. He once said he is extremly carfeul towards her. She somehow has the ability to whisper things into you that you see positive at first but end up be bad for you and good for her.


P.s.: I dont know why you guys always go Milano. I hate Milano. Its kinda cold there. The people are cold and not very italian from temprament and the city is arrogant with evry aspect ha ha

Well, i'm not sure about the Erdoğan's perspective....If he wants, he can arranges all 72 points in a day. There is thing done in Turkey, like adopting EU laws and regulations.....but not employing them. I mean on the paper everything looks fine, but in reality things work differently...

He could have done like how EU suggested and not employ the criteria....but he doesn't do that.....

My only small guess, is this refugee & visa free deal was first proposed by Davutoğlu back in the March 2016.....Now, AKP uses this "visa lifting" in the domestic politics...like "We lifted visas with 70 countries".....So, they could have used this "visa lifting with EU" very well...However that would be an achievement for Davutoğlu not Erdoğan.

Now, nothing gone to public but i heard/read things like Erdogan got angry for Davutoğlu for making a deal with EU without his consent and knowledge. Also, Erdoğan would go to Saudi Arabia, US....and one week later Davutoğlu would go to same countries....Erdoğan got angry also on this. It was like "I'm representing the state, everything is in my control and i make deals with foreign countries, so, why this Davutoğlu going to these countries after me, and talks about what ?"...

So, he took him from the Prime Minister's officer and replaced him with a loyal puppet.

I feel like, he is acting like "Hey, look Davutoğlu made a deal with EU but it's no good for us, so i'm fixing the situation. "

Both, devalue-ting Davutoğlu and try to make himself good.

Well, this is my guess and your guess is good as mine....I would also like to hear my brethren thoughts on the subject.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@xenon54 @T-123456

Bros, can you read the conversation between me and markuss and present your views, please ?

@Zulkarneyn you too bro. Bro, i know EU is demonized at the moment in Turkey but please don't use degrading or offensive words, please.

P.s.: I dont know why you guys always go Milano. I hate Milano. Its kinda cold there. The people are cold and not very italian from temprament and the city is arrogant with evry aspect ha ha

Hımmm, i don't know that actually.

My listing would be.
- Florence.
- Rome.
- Venice
-Milano

Didn't saw the other cities.

I really liked Florence very very much...and i have seen some of most of the famous cities in Europe. I would really liked to live in that city. However if i can bring the city altogether to Turkey and replace the inhabitants with my kin. Not having anything against Italians , they are my favorite people in EU along with Spanish. But your own people feels different.

 

[MarkusS]

Well, i'm not sure about the Erdoğan's perspective....If he wants, he can arranges all 72 points in a day. There is thing done in Turkey, like adopting EU laws and regulations.....but not employing them. I mean on the paper everything looks fine, but in reality things work differently...

He could have done like how EU suggested and not employ the criteria....but he doesn't do that.....

My only small guess, is this refugee & visa free deal was first proposed by Davutoğlu back in the March 2016.....Now, AKP uses this "visa lifting" in the domestic politics...like "We lifted visas with 70 countries".....So, they could have used this "visa lifting with EU" very well...However that would be an achievement for Davutoğlu not Erdoğan.

Now, nothing gone to public but i heard/read things like Erdogan got angry for Davutoğlu for making a deal with EU without his consent and knowledge. Also, Erdoğan would go to Saudi Arabia, US....and one week later Davutoğlu would go to same countries....Erdoğan got angry also on this. It was like "I'm representing the state, everything is in my control and i make deals with foreign countries, so, why this Davutoğlu going to these countries after me, and talks about what ?"...

So, he took him from the Prime Minister's officer and replaced him with a loyal puppet.

I feel like, he is acting like "Hey, look Davutoğlu made a deal with EU but it's no good for us, so i'm fixing the situation. "

Both, devalue-ting Davutoğlu and try to make himself good.

Well, this is my guess and your guess is good as mine....I would also like to hear my brethren thoughts on the subject.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@xenon54 @T-123456

Bros, can you read the conversation between me and markuss and present your views, please ?

@Zulkarneyn you too bro. Bro, i know EU is demonized at the moment in Turkey but please don't use degrading or offensive words, please.


Hımmm, i don't know that actually.

My listing would be.
- Florence.
- Rome.
- Venice
-Milano

Didn't saw the other cities.

I really liked Florence very very much...and i have seen some of most of the famous cities in Europe. I would really liked to live in that city. However if i can bring the city altogether to Turkey and replace the inhabitants with my kin. Not having anything against Italians , they are my favorite people in EU along with Spanish. But your own people feels different.

its propably a mixture of both. Dont get me wrong but i dont think that davutaglu has the format to deal with merkel.

Florence....you know im from Lucca. Florence is our old rival as is Pisa. Its funny because Lucca is such an awesome city with entire renaissance core still intact and even city walls but its largely unknown to many tourists.

 

[-SINAN-]

Florence....you know im from Lucca. Florence is our old rival as is Pisa. Its funny because Lucca is such an awesome city with entire renaissance core still intact and even city walls but its largely unknown to many tourists.

I really appreciated Italians for keeping/caring/preserving their heritage...I would be very happy if had been the case in Turkey....I think that has to do with our nomadic roots.....Your people were city dwellers since the ancient times. So, i think, it's embedded to their culture. Iranians are like you too in that regard.

Just looked at some pics of Lucca, it looks awesome. You won't find a city like that in Turkey....probably we would erect a skyscraper in the middle of Lucca.

 

[MarkusS]

I really appreciated Italians for keeping/caring/preserving their heritage...I would be very happy if had been the case in Turkey....I think that has to do with our nomadic roots.....Your people were city dwellers since the ancient times. So, i think, it's embedded to their culture. Iranians are like you too in that regard.

Just looked at some pics of Lucca, it looks awesome. You won't find a city like that in Turkey....probably we would erect a skyscraper in the middle of Lucca.

Thank you very much.

Yes it is beautiful Almost entire Italy is like art and a giant museum.

But its not just positive. Sometimes you feel like an open air museum. Our history and our ancestors always have their grip on us evrywhere. You said you visited roma? You may notice it. The thousands of stone eyes looking on you evrywhere.

It sometiems press you down. Italy has the most art and architecture in the world. It costs us billions each year to keep it in shape. Pompeii allone is a gargantuan thing.

Our government tries to find alternative options to get money. For example corporations can spend money for specific things and are mentioned then for doing so. Some critisize this but i think its originel and cool.

Building skyscrapers is almost impossible here. It gives Rome a skyline that is pretty unique in the world.

I did not see much from Izmir but Istanbul looked fine for me. That central part with Hagia Sophia and the old quarters. Theer were no skyscrapers.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

@Zulkarneyn you too bro. Bro, i know EU is demonized at the moment in Turkey but please don't use degrading or offensive words, please.

Trust me bro, i would love to join the discussion because it's one of my interest areas. But right now im extremely preoccupied with work, for about a week. And i think you are doing a great job