Turkish Atilgan ( turkish defence exports continue)

LegionnairE · Aug 14, 2012

@A1Kaid
Even if the .223 reaches the target before the 7.62x51 it's highly unlikely that it will make the kill.

In my opinion, 5.56 is great for closer range urban-combat. But in mountainous areas where effective range becomes an issue what you need is either .308win or .338lapua or 7.62x54R. Our national asssault rifle has a fairly good design even though it has some flaws. Sadly i expect a lower end-product quality since MKE is notorious with these kinds of problems.

Anyway, I would really like a design like American Kel-tec RFB, having the .308win round in a bullpup design gives great kineric energy. From any distance it guarantees either death or loss of a limb.

this is exactly why Turkish Army insisted on 7.62NATO from the very beginning.

A1Kaid · Aug 14, 2012

Cirit said:
Lets say that two soldiers (Soldier A has 7,62 and Soldier B has 5.56) shot their rifles pointing each other at the same time and Soldier B's round hit Soldier A before his.

Is there any advantage for Soldier B?

I don't think so. What is the benefit of dying just after some miliseconds after soldier A?

With my all respect I do not agree with you.

This is not a good comparison. Think of a more realistic combat situation where two enemy army groups are in a battle of attrition, Army Group A uses 7.62mm and Army Group B using 5.56mm, as both of them are exchanging fire, the Army Groups' B rounds are hitting and reaching their targets firsts. Both Armies of course will not likely have 100% accuracy this is what your comparison assumes that both soldiers have 100% accuracy, in realistic situation accuracy is lower than that relative to distance and other factors.

Who is to say the Army Group firing the 7.76mm will get the kill or the Army Group B will get the kill (100% of the time)? The advantage Army Group B will have is their rounds are faster and CAN hit their targets faster than the 7.76mm from the same distance, this is a decisive advantage.

With 5.56mm you have adequate stopping power and the decisive edge of speed, this is why NATO has adopted it. In some situations 7.76mm is more optimal, my conjecture is probably in an urban situation were soldiers would have to fire through thick concrete walls and bricks and wherever else the enemy takes cover or protection--were a decisive greater stopping power could give you an advantage. In most situations 5.56 mm is best, that is my opinion.

Have you ever fired 5.56mm and 7.62mm rounds before?

AtillaHun · Aug 14, 2012

TAI HURKUS

EXPECTED EXPORTS

TAI Hürku

A1Kaid · Aug 14, 2012

The reason I think the 5.56mm round may not be good for most urban combat situations is from (one reason) studying the Iraq War and conditions US forces had to deal with in urban situations. The need for soldiers to penetrate thick walls, bricks, and structures in urban situations (many homes in Iraqi cities are walled off). Also examine European cities and capitals, observe the building structures you would have to face in an urban combat situation there. When in a urban situation where enemy soldiers are inside buildings and rooms and are taking cover, firing a 5.56mm will be faster but the 5.56 mm round will likely loose it's lethality after penetrating thick walls, the same thick walls, bricks, and building structures the 7.62mm round will be able to penetrate and score lethal kills (albeit in less time). Often soldiers find themselves firing at enemies taking cover in buildings a few blocks away, make sure that bullet can penetrate and stay on trajectory and still hit with lethality, the 7.62mm in that case is my choice.

In urban situation I would trust my life with the 7.62mm round, as a soldier I would want to know I my fire can penetrate the thick walls, bricks, and structures and still maintain trajectory and lethality and at they very least neutrality.

AtillaHun · Aug 14, 2012

Isnt the 5.56mm range less aswell than 7.62mm? so less powerfull from range.

A1Kaid · Aug 14, 2012

AtillaHun said:
Isnt the 5.56mm range less aswell than 7.62mm? so less powerfull from range.

If effective range becomes an issue than the soldier can switch to 7.62mm round, soldier should be able to take cover whether with environment or cover fire, etc change cartridge and begin using the 7.62mm if effective range is an issue in the combat situation and beyond the 5.56mm effective capability and range.

AtillaHun · Aug 14, 2012

Roketsan Cirit - CIRIT is a laser-guided 70 mm rocket system currently under production by Turkish missile manufacturer Roketsan. It is one of the projects launched by Turkey to equip the Turkish Army's T-129 Atak, AH-1P Cobra and AH-1W Super Cobra attack helicopters with low-cost precision strike capabilities.

Export
Roketsan is currently in talks with Australian Defence Force officials for the possible sale of the Cirit.
Roketsan has signed a memorandum of understanding with Eurocopter to execute a test program for integration of the Cirit to Eurocopter EC635. Talks with 4 other countries.

Roketsan Cirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AtillaHun · Aug 15, 2012

KAAN 29 class patrol craft

KAAN 29 class patrol craft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These boats have also been built for the Pakistan Coast Guard. Also exported to romania , georgia , malaysia , UAE

Pakistan version