Turkey’s STM offers FAC-55 missile boat to Pakistan

[Neptune]

Eight of the twelve MİLGEM project warships are classified as the Ada-class corvette, while four of them will be equipped with additional weapon systems and will be classified as the TF-100-class frigate.

Milgem II will slightly bigger and will be classified as a FFG.

View attachment 356551

That was an artist's illustration by the way. The ships are dubbed as Istanbul-class frigates. This is the final revised design by Naval Shipyard posted below. For the DZKK, the construction of the first ships will commence at early 2017, IOC expected at 2021. They are planned to replace Yavuz-class (MEKO) frigates of DZKK.

Specifications:


General:

• Length: 113 m

• Displacement: 3.000 tonnes

• Speed: 29 knots

• Range: 6.000 nm (~11.000 km)

• Crew: 125


Armaments:

• 2×8 Atmaca anti-ship missile

• 16-cell Mk41 VLS, therefore;

• 64x RIM-162 ESSM (But its likely that by that time ESSM Blok 2 will be ready for production with upgraded dual seekers which Turkey is a part of the project)

• Korkut-D 25mm CIWS (if it wont catch up with the schedule: Phalanx Mk-15 Blok 1B CIWS)

• Oto Melara 76/62 mm Super Rapid

• 2x 324mm Mk32 triple torpedo launcher for Mark 46 Mod 5

• 2x 25 mm Aselsan STOP RWS

• 1x Sikorsky SH-70 Seahawk Helicopter

Sensors and CMS:

• Smart-S Mk-2 3D Radar

• Fire Control: STING EO Mk2

• Sonar: TBT-01 Yakamoz

• Communications: SatCom, GPS, LAN, Link 11/16

• Navigation: ALPER LPI Radar, ECPINS-W, ECDIS/WECDIS

• IPMS: Yaltes EPKIS

• E/O: Aselflir 300D (might be replaced with CATS if Aselsan proposes a naval variant)

• X-Band radar

• Genesis ADVENT Combat Management System

Electronic Warfare Systems:

• SIGINT: Aselsan ARES-2N

• ASW defense: Aselsan HIZIR

• Others: Laser/RF, ASW Jammer, DG


Others:

• 20 tonnes of JP5 aviation fuel
• In-air-refueling capability
• Deck and hangar to accommodate helicopters and UAVs

Exp. Price:

325 million USD.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

But there are rumors that something along with MILIGEM may also be acquired.
Awesome if materialized, what configuration they may come with?

Still nothing has been finalised.

Probably both Turkish & Chinese vessels will be acquired, both sides offering their best with local shipbuilding offers.
Both countries also offer modifications as per PN requirements.

We have had long experience with Chinese ships, but with Turkey the oil tanker is the first large vessel.

I am sure the planners sitting in NHQ will select the best vessels for PN. They all are professionals.



IMHO, we should buy
FFGs (6 X Type 57 or F22P Block II) from China, and
Corvettes or the FAC 55 (6 ) from Turkey.

To speed up the acquisition, I would also like to acquire/lease 2 Type 54A FFGs and deploy them at Gwadar, as building and induction of new vessels will take time.

I know it's pretty ambitious keeping in view the 8 Subs also in the pipeline, but the Navy need to gain some preference after the CPEC trade commencement.

That was an artist's illustration by the way. The ships are dubbed as Istanbul-class frigates. This is the final revised design by Naval Shipyard posted below. For the DZKK, the construction of the first ships will commence at early 2017, IOC expected at 2021. They are planned to replace Yavuz-class (MEKO) frigates of DZKK.

Yes off course it was an artists illustration.

 

[Zarvan]

That was an artist's illustration by the way. The ships are dubbed as Istanbul-class frigates. This is the final revised design by Naval Shipyard posted below. For the DZKK, the construction of the first ships will commence at early 2017, IOC expected at 2021. They are planned to replace Yavuz-class (MEKO) frigates of DZKK.

Specifications:


General:

• Length: 113 m

• Displacement: 3.000 tonnes

• Speed: 29 knots

• Range: 6.000 nm (~11.000 km)

• Crew: 125


Armaments:

• 2×8 Atmaca anti-ship missile

• 16-cell Mk41 VLS, therefore;

• 64x RIM-162 ESSM (But its likely that by that time ESSM Blok 2 will be ready for production with upgraded dual seekers which Turkey is a part of the project)

• Korkut-D 25mm CIWS (if it wont catch up with the schedule: Phalanx Mk-15 Blok 1B CIWS)

• Oto Melara 76/62 mm Super Rapid

• 2x 324mm Mk32 triple torpedo launcher for Mark 46 Mod 5

• 2x 25 mm Aselsan STOP RWS

• 1x Sikorsky SH-70 Seahawk Helicopter

Sensors and CMS:

• Smart-S Mk-2 3D Radar

• Fire Control: STING EO Mk2

• Sonar: TBT-01 Yakamoz

• Communications: SatCom, GPS, LAN, Link 11/16

• Navigation: ALPER LPI Radar, ECPINS-W, ECDIS/WECDIS

• IPMS: Yaltes EPKIS

• E/O: Aselflir 300D (might be replaced with CATS if Aselsan proposes a naval variant)

• X-Band radar

• Genesis ADVENT Combat Management System

Electronic Warfare Systems:

• SIGINT: Aselsan ARES-2N

• ASW defense: Sea Sentor SSTD

• Others: Laser/RF, ASW Jammer, DG


Others:

• 20 tonnes of JP5 aviation fuel
• In-air-refueling capability
• Deck and hangar to accommodate helicopters and UAVs

Exp. Price:

325 million USD.

16 MK 41 VLS means it would have capability of firing cruise missiles from those VLS ? @Rashid Mahmood

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

16 MK 41 VLS means it would have capability of firing cruise missiles from those VLS ? @Rashid Mahmood

Yes it would.

 

[Zarvan]

Yes it would.

Than this is the ship which we need and I hope at least for this time Navy goes for it and goes for it in large numbers. Unless we have capability of unleashing hell on cities which are located in Indian south starting from Mumbai. India and its Navy will remain a Major thread. Only by having these ships we can deter India from doing something stupid.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

We need to protect gawadar, Medium range SAM is inevitable for us with those type of boats. We should spend few more money.

 

[echo 1]

This beauty would be great for Pakistan. It would help with a verity of roles.

 

[Tank131]

Than this is the ship which we need and I hope at least for this time Navy goes for it and goes for it in large numbers. Unless we have capability of unleashing hell on cities which are located in Indian south starting from Mumbai. India and its Navy will remain a Major thread. Only by having these ships we can deter India from doing something stupid.

Bro you need to get past the notion of using surface vessels to strike Imdian mainland. They wouldnt make it past IN surface fleet let alone subs or aircraft. The submarine arm of PN is the best bet for this. BTW you need a particular length of vls for cruise missiles and even for antiship missiles. The CAMM would likely require only A35 (3.5m), A43 (4.3m) (given that vt1 can quad pack into an A35 and that CAMMs is the same diameter and has a 3.2m length, it will likely fit quad packed in A35 alone. ESSM requires 4.2 m self defense module which is equivalent to sylver A43. It is unlikely that the MIlgem-g will carry the 7m tactical mk41 vls or Sylver A70 required to field AShM or LACM. These VLS are designed to field SAMs. Now you could replace a few of the AShM in the midship to give you 8AShM and 8 LACM but that would likely be a waste given what i said above.

Focus of surface fleet needs to be area denial, protecting sea lanes and eez while keeping IN aircraft off the back of subs and away from merchant ships.

The best way for this is getting 4 Milgem-g (Istanbul class) but essm needs. To be swapped for CAMM (64 sams with 60km range) givimg flotilla level defense. In conjunction get 6 FAC 55 and place FL3000N on them. Next get 2-4 Type 057 frigates from China. At 4500t ship with what appears to be a solid state aesa akin to Sampson (should be 300-400km range hopefully). 32vls cells anteriorly used for DK-10A (hopefully it can be quad packed as they say it is to be Chinese answer to ESSM) or CAMM. The rear 16 cells hopefull are of the longer varieties and could field longer range SAMs like HQ9 (6.8m) which would make this ship capable of fleet level defense (16 200km missiles, 128 50-60km missiles, and 8-24 short range missiles (fl3000n) posteriorly). Add to that 2 gun style ciws and this will be a superb command ship for PN. I would also update the current F-22P with new sensors and exchanges the current sur-17 (type 363) and sr-60 (type 360) which have ~130 amd 166km range respectively, with Aselsan SMART-S Mk2 (250km). Try to overhaul the ship to get a 24-32cell launcher for CAMM or DK-10A, Otherwise replace the FM90 with 2 24 cell fl3000n (9km range vs 15km but 48 missiles vs 8).

Instead of leasing 2 054a frigates as a stop gap, i would get the 3 remaining Adelaides from Australia and put them through the GENESIS Upgrade and get CAMM for their 8 cell mk41s (in place of essm) and install an 8 cell sylver a43 on Alamghir for 32 CAMM, along with GENESIS. This would be far more cost effective and you would own the vessels which you have a logistics path for already in place. That gives you 4 F22P, 4 Milgem-G, 4 G-class/Adelaides/OHP Frigates, and 2-4 Type 057s in relatively short order (10 years or so) with new builds comming from 3 sources to help speed the process along (turkey, china and Pakistan). 14-16 large surface combatants all capable of at least flotilla level defense (if f22p can get vls) and 2-4 capable of fleet level defense add to that 4 Azmat, 2 MRTP-33, and 6 FAC-55 (FAC-55 likely capable of point air defense) and you have a very solid surface fleet which can give headache to IN amd certainly defend EEZ and Pakistani coast from IN aggression along with 11 AIP subs. Add to that a coastal C602 and zarb batteries, a sqn of JF-17 equipped with c802a or c802akg (180 or 280km respectively) or even cm400akg (280km supersonic) and hopefully a sqnn or a twin engime strike fighter (su35 unlikely but JH-7B which has similar range and payload of MKI amd could be equipped with AESA and IRST of J-11D to improve a2a performance) and you have a strong naval defense.

You could field 2 naval commands (western and eastern) with 1-2 type 057 controlling each command and small flotilla of MILGEM, OHP, F22P, 2 subs and a few light corvette (Azmat/FAC-55) patrolling each command at any given time.

 

[Zarvan]

Bro you need to get past the notion of using surface vessels to strike Imdian mainland. They wouldnt make it past IN surface fleet let alone subs or aircraft. The submarine arm of PN is the best bet for this. BTW you need a particular length of vls for cruise missiles and even for antiship missiles. The CAMM would likely require only A35 (3.5m), A43 (4.3m) (given that vt1 can quad pack into an A35 and that CAMMs is the same diameter and has a 3.2m length, it will likely fit quad packed in A35 alone. ESSM requires 4.2 m self defense module which is equivalent to sylver A43. It is unlikely that the MIlgem-g will carry the 7m tactical mk41 vls or Sylver A70 required to field AShM or LACM. These VLS are designed to field SAMs. Now you could replace a few of the AShM in the midship to give you 8AShM and 8 LACM but that would likely be a waste given what i said above.

Focus of surface fleet needs to be area denial, protecting sea lanes and eez while keeping IN aircraft off the back of subs and away from merchant shis. The best way for this is getting 4 Milgem-g (Istanbul class) but essm needs. To be swapped for CAMM.

When I say Long Range Cruse Missiles I mean Missiles which have at least range of 1500 KM. That means our Ships can remain in our ocean and fire cruise missiles and no Indian Navy can do but come to our sea but fire cruise missiles like Barhmos from there destroyers. They won't enter our sea. Also if Pakistan fires 10 to 15 cruise missile in matter of few minutes not Air Defence system on face of the earth can stop all of them.

 

[Tank131]

When I say Long Range Cruse Missiles I mean Missiles which have at least range of 1500 KM. That means our Ships can remain in our ocean and fire cruise missiles and no Indian Navy can do but come to our sea but fire cruise missiles like Barhmos from there destroyers. They won't enter our sea. Also if Pakistan fires 10 to 15 cruise missile in matter of few minutes not Air Defence system on face of the earth can stop all of them

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/turkey’s-stm-offers-fac-55-missile-boat-to-pakistan.463784/page-3#ixzz4RTZSZvoI

What makes you think IN is going to sit back and watch you lob cruise missiles at them? They have 2 aircraft carriers 11 destroyers amd 14 heavy frigates. If they wamt to emter your waters, what will you really do. In full tilt naval warfare, you would damage their fleet minimally in PNs current setup amd they would destroy PN (10 yrs from now is a different story) but they still have the heavy advantage. Subs are the best way for naval strike against India. Focus your surface fleet on destroying as many IN ships and aircraft as possible in order to deter against misadventures. Loading them with LACM utilizes valuable space that is not going to be effective. What is more damaging to them, sending brunt of their fleet to destroy your surface vessels which will be firing only 4-8 AShM in retaliation or them having to keep a significant chunk at home hunting for subs while your ships can retaliate with 8-16 AShM each. You could overwhelm a ships air defense with those numbers taking 1 ship for each of yours destroyed. Leave cruise missile strikes to PAF and Submarines, they are better equipped for it.

 

[Suff Shikan]

Is it going to be like this ?

 

[Khafee]

View attachment 356795

Is it going to be like this ?

Looks like an FAC.

 

[Khafee]

Still nothing has been finalised.

Probably both Turkish & Chinese vessels will be acquired, both sides offering their best with local shipbuilding offers.
Both countries also offer modifications as per PN requirements.

We have had long experience with Chinese ships, but with Turkey the oil tanker is the first large vessel.

I am sure the planners sitting in NHQ will select the best vessels for PN. They all are professionals.



IMHO, we should buy
FFGs (6 X Type 57 or F22P Block II) from China, and
Corvettes or the FAC 55 (6 ) from Turkey.

To speed up the acquisition, I would also like to acquire/lease 2 Type 54A FFGs and deploy them at Gwadar, as building and induction of new vessels will take time.

I know it's pretty ambitious keeping in view the 8 Subs also in the pipeline, but the Navy need to gain some preference after the CPEC trade commencement.



Yes off course it was an artists illustration.

What about a platform with Long Range SAM's, anything on that?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

What about a platform with Long Range SAM's, anything on that?

It should be the Type 57 FFGs. This is my opinion.

 

[Basel]

Bro you need to get past the notion of using surface vessels to strike Imdian mainland. They wouldnt make it past IN surface fleet let alone subs or aircraft. The submarine arm of PN is the best bet for this. BTW you need a particular length of vls for cruise missiles and even for antiship missiles. The CAMM would likely require only A35 (3.5m), A43 (4.3m) (given that vt1 can quad pack into an A35 and that CAMMs is the same diameter and has a 3.2m length, it will likely fit quad packed in A35 alone. ESSM requires 4.2 m self defense module which is equivalent to sylver A43. It is unlikely that the MIlgem-g will carry the 7m tactical mk41 vls or Sylver A70 required to field AShM or LACM. These VLS are designed to field SAMs. Now you could replace a few of the AShM in the midship to give you 8AShM and 8 LACM but that would likely be a waste given what i said above.

Focus of surface fleet needs to be area denial, protecting sea lanes and eez while keeping IN aircraft off the back of subs and away from merchant ships.

The best way for this is getting 4 Milgem-g (Istanbul class) but essm needs. To be swapped for CAMM (64 sams with 60km range) givimg flotilla level defense. In conjunction get 6 FAC 55 and place FL3000N on them. Next get 2-4 Type 057 frigates from China. At 4500t ship with what appears to be a solid state aesa akin to Sampson (should be 300-400km range hopefully). 32vls cells anteriorly used for DK-10A (hopefully it can be quad packed as they say it is to be Chinese answer to ESSM) or CAMM. The rear 16 cells hopefull are of the longer varieties and could field longer range SAMs like HQ9 (6.8m) which would make this ship capable of fleet level defense (16 200km missiles, 128 50-60km missiles, and 8-24 short range missiles (fl3000n) posteriorly). Add to that 2 gun style ciws and this will be a superb command ship for PN. I would also update the current F-22P with new sensors and exchanges the current sur-17 (type 363) and sr-60 (type 360) which have ~130 amd 166km range respectively, with Aselsan SMART-S Mk2 (250km). Try to overhaul the ship to get a 24-32cell launcher for CAMM or DK-10A, Otherwise replace the FM90 with 2 24 cell fl3000n (9km range vs 15km but 48 missiles vs 8).

Instead of leasing 2 054a frigates as a stop gap, i would get the 3 remaining Adelaides from Australia and put them through the GENESIS Upgrade and get CAMM for their 8 cell mk41s (in place of essm) and install an 8 cell sylver a43 on Alamghir for 32 CAMM, along with GENESIS. This would be far more cost effective and you would own the vessels which you have a logistics path for already in place. That gives you 4 F22P, 4 Milgem-G, 4 G-class/Adelaides/OHP Frigates, and 2-4 Type 057s in relatively short order (10 years or so) with new builds comming from 3 sources to help speed the process along (turkey, china and Pakistan). 14-16 large surface combatants all capable of at least flotilla level defense (if f22p can get vls) and 2-4 capable of fleet level defense add to that 4 Azmat, 2 MRTP-33, and 6 FAC-55 (FAC-55 likely capable of point air defense) and you have a very solid surface fleet which can give headache to IN amd certainly defend EEZ and Pakistani coast from IN aggression along with 11 AIP subs. Add to that a coastal C602 and zarb batteries, a sqn of JF-17 equipped with c802a or c802akg (180 or 280km respectively) or even cm400akg (280km supersonic) and hopefully a sqnn or a twin engime strike fighter (su35 unlikely but JH-7B which has similar range and payload of MKI amd could be equipped with AESA and IRST of J-11D to improve a2a performance) and you have a strong naval defense.

You could field 2 naval commands (western and eastern) with 1-2 type 057 controlling each command and small flotilla of MILGEM, OHP, F22P, 2 subs and a few light corvette (Azmat/FAC-55) patrolling each command at any given time.

CAMM is not 60km range missile even CAMM-ER have 45km range.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/camm-solution-maritime-superiority/camm-sea/