Turkey's Erdogan Visits Iran to Improve Ties After Split Over Syria

[al-Hasani]

@ResurgentIran

You know very well what we are talking about. Just because you do not like to hear it since you are an frequent poster in such threads. It is just laughable when we know who is more "obsessed" as seen by the actual events of this forum. It is not the other way around.
The Arab Defense forum has been visited by quite a few Iranians. In fact some of them have even made threads. Also the Arab Defense forum is only a defense forum. No social discussions are tolerated/allowed. If they were you would see the same trolls and double users that troll in Arab threads on the ME section doing the exact same thing in the Arab Defense section.

Lastly when I talk about participation I am referring to simple trolling and not constructive posts.

Bottom line is that the Mullah's are disliked in the Arab world, that most Arabs have not a positive view of current Iran and that there are a lot of Iranian trolls and double users who are trolling in Arab threads, much, much more than the opposite way around. I don't think that anyone can deny this.

Also I already wrote that both sides have their moments/ignorance/trolling.

But let us end it here. I made my points.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Im a frequent poster where Iran is involved in the conflict in one way or another. Iran is a legitimate player with interests, regardless how KSA feels about it. There is no such thing as "Arab issues". KSA is not more legitimate to have regional interests in Arab countries than Iran, on the account of Iran not being Arab. Thats not how it works.
It has absolutely nothing to do with obsession, and if you cant get that, then there's nothing I can do for you.
I know you would like to play "Arab" card as does the House of Saud for geopolitical reasons. But its not how the game works.

And I have not seen many Iranian posters (actually I cant remember the last time I saw one). But that may be because I practically never visit the Arab forum myself. It does not really interest me much.
Here is the Middle East section and the topic often is about issues where Iran is involved, and thats when I post. Otherwise I could not care less about Arab defence spending, military, economy etc etc. It has none of my interest what so ever.

Im not even sure if certain posters (I dont like to name names) I have seen on the ME section are even Iranian, but perhaps sock accounts. Maybe you are referring to them.
I have seen Saudis coming over to Iranian section quite a bit before, although not so much lately.
The general unspoken consensus among both Arabs and Iranians is that "you keep to your side of the line".

And frankly I think its your people that are by far much more obsessed than the other way around. But lets agree to disagree.

 

[al-Hasani]

@ResurgentIran
I am not sure what we are even discussing anymore? At one point you agree that Iranian users are meddling in Arab issues on this section, which every sane person can witness every single day several times a day, but at the other hand you use the argument that Iran is a "player". So just because Iran is what you call a "player" (only partially and far, far less than the Arab countries) then it justifies the amount of trolling from Iranians, especially the double users that appear again and again which we both know is correct as well?

The Arab world is also a player in every Iranian topic then. From economy, sanctions, conflicts, religion to history. Even the people who rule you claim to be of Arab origin. So we should use that excuse to troll your section and threads about Iran repeatedly. Is that what you want to happen? Name me one single Arab double user. There is none.

Eh, some of the trolls on the Arab Defense forum openly admit that they are Iranian. Whether or not you believe that they are sock puppets.

Also you still don't understand that there is a difference between participation (I don't care who participates in threads about KSA or Arab issues in general) just as long as there is no trolling and the people who troll the most in those threads are the Iranians. That happens more this way around than the other way around. That's my point. This does not mean that both parties are innocents which I have never claimed. In fact I wrote this in my first reply in this thread.

 

[ResurgentIran]

@ResurgentIran
At one point you agree that Iranian users are meddling in Arab issues

LOL what? My point is that there is no such thing as "Arab issues". Whats hard to comprehend?

If we take Syria as one example. Syria is a sovereign state.
The Syria conflict is not more your issue than it is Iran's, because you are arab.
You are implying in one way or another that you are more "legitimate" to meddle than Iran, because you are racially Arab. See how flaw this logic is? Well, maybe not.

If you want to argue that Iran has no right to argue to meddle in other countries, then fine. But then KSA has no right either to meddle in other Arab issues. We are talking about sovereign states that has its own interests and makes decisions based on its own national interests. Regardless who is Arab and who is not.

I cant explain it further to you if you cling to such mindset "Arab issues". Its futile really.

And I find that there is much more trolling OR flame bating by you and the likes of you, than vice versa. Much much more in fact.

 

[al-Hasani]

LOL what? My point is that there is no such thing as "Arab issues". Whats hard to comprehend?
The Syria conflict is not more your issue than it is Iran's, because you are arab.
If we take Syria as one example. Syria is a sovereign state. You are implying in one way or another that you are more "legitimate" to meddle than Iran, because you are racially Arab. See how flaw this logic is? Well, maybe not.
If you want to argue that Iran has no right to argue to meddle in other countries, then fine. But then KSA has no right either to meddle in other Arab issues. We are talking about sovereign states that has its own interests and makes decisions based on its own national interests. Regardless who is Arab and who is not.

I cant explain it further to you if you cling to such mindset "Arab issues". Its futile really.

LOL. There are something called Arab internal issues and topics about the Arab world just like the same is the case with Iran and other regions/countries and people. Stop trying to make an outrageous claim of the opposite being the case. In that case there is no need for an Iranian section at all since there is no such thing as "Iranian issues" going by your logic.

The Syrian conflict is one tiny bit. I am talking about threads about the Arab world in general and what the world would call Arab issues. I can give you several examples just from today. Do you get me now?

Eh, it us up to us Arabs if we want to "meddle" in each others countries. Just like what Iranians are doing is their business. There are over 20 Arab countries of the world. We are a people spread on all continents. Arabs unlike most other ethnic groups do not only live in 1 single country but are spread at a large area that is connected geographically which the world calls the Arab world where people are tied in terms of ancestry, culture, language, religion, traditions, cuisine etc. in general. You know just like Iranians, despite living in different regions and belonging to different ethnic groups are labelled as Iranians because they share certain things with each other.

Anyway let me make it clear again. What I call meddling in this case = trolling.

Posting in threads as long as there is no trolling = contribution = I don't have a problem with this.

Do you know the difference between contributing and trolling?

 

[rmi5]

500 million is a round number. There are about 450 million Arabs in the Arab world and a diaspora of about 40-50 million people abroad mostly in Latin America, South East Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe. There are 3.5 million Arabs in the US alone. 1% of the American population.

Actually know when you mention population growth then the population of the Arab League is expected to number 750 million people by 2050. I will get you a link if you want.

It seems that you are not good with math. please send me a link instead, which says 400 millions rounds up to 500 millions.

What does agree with me mean? Most don't hold a favorable view of the Iranian Mullah's and their policies or the Iranians that support them. That's what I am referring to. Actually Egyptians are quite anti-Shia. You should just know. In fact many have been killed in the open and been labelled as "Iranian agents". At least Shias and Sunnis live peacefully in KSA by large. Egypt has virtually and no relations with Iran at all since 1979. Even when they were ruled by nationalists and the military junta.

Instead of your empty generalizing, I elaborated mindset of Arab countries for you. BTW, those retards were Salafists as I said before, and they are barely 10% of the population in the most backward parts of the Egyptian society. The Iran-Egypt tension has nothing to do with Shia-Sunni BS stuff. Egypt hosted the Last Shah of Iran and president Sadat showed to be a true friend of Shah. the relations got screwed since then and also by adding their position regarding Israel.

It is not my problem that you do not known ancient civilizations of the region. And they were not insignificant because you say so. Semitic civilization are among if not the oldest in the world. "In recent times", at least compared to 90% of the world who does not have as old civilizations as those of the ME, 4 Arab Caliphates were ruled by people form what is now KSA for nearly 1000 years and they controlled more land than any empire/civilization before them if you exclude the 90 year old Mongol Empire and the later European colonial empires.

haha, whenever you see that you have no ancient history, you change your position and use the term Semitic instead of Arabic. FYI, jews do hate you and have no respect for you and do not want to be categorized with you. BTW, do not derail my question, which one of these tiny so called ancient civilizations were even comparable with achaimanids?

No, dozens. In fact we often are visited by Iranian trolls and double users.
I have made 4-5 posts in the Iranian section. When people were talking behind my back which I was notified of. That's all.
Read what I am writing. I never said anything about who shall write anywhere. I asked you a simple question. You know the reality anyway.
There are 10 times more Iranian trolls that are participating in threads about Arab issues than the other way around. They both belong to the Mullah faction and the non-Mullah faction.

Saudis are not better than mullah followers in these regards. You were turning into being a rational poster, not a long time ago, but, unfortunately, you started trolling again which was disappointing. BTW, It is interesting that a 500 millions nation does not have enough posters in an international forum as the at most 5-8 million mullah followers do. We are missing some point here

What falsifying? We had Arab users including me telling about the wrong translation. But keep believing that the Emir of Dubai LOVES the Mullah's. You did not even get my point which was that he hopes for Iran to become a rational state so trade can increase. He is not doing it out of love but out of business. A business than until now has been completely one-sided as you might know already.

The point is that he is a very wise man, and he only cares about his own business, and does not care for what you want at all. His economy is based on his huge deals with Iran, either importing or exporting for Iranian goods and market or laundering for mullahs, and on the Iranian immigrants who have the role of the elite brain in his emirate. That's why his preferences are more Iranian oriented. That's a fact. He has no important common interest with Saudi instead. That's the reason beyond his actions and interviews. although you may want to say that his words are mistranslated, but it is a ridiculous claim, dude. Since his position has not changed too much as far as I remember.

It is not about being better or not. We are discussing Arab-Iranian relations here now. I don't see Arab states meddling in Iran to even 1/100 of the degree that the Mullah's are doing.

What is the reason, then? I would say they can't do anything because they don't have any supporters inside Iran, and mullahs have impeded Saudis to meddle into Iran. Although they would not miss a chance if they get one, such as supporting Balouch separatist in Pakistan who make trouble for Iran occasionally. So, the reason has been the lack of such ability not the good will

PS: I wrote quite a few more lines in the post that you quoted but that was after you started to reply so I will post it here if it is ok?

Sure. No problem

 

[ResurgentIran]

Eh, it us up to us Arabs if we want to "meddle" in each others countries. Just like what Iranians are doing is their business. Arabs live in over 20 states of the world. We are a people spread on all continents. Arabs unlike most other ethnic groups do not only live in 1 single country.

Anyway let me make it clear again. Meddling = trolling.

Posting in threads as long as there is no trolling = contribution = I don't have a problem with this.

Do you know the difference between contributing and trolling?

And it is also up to Iran then if wants to "meddle" in Arab countries as well then.
If Iran has no right to meddle in "Arab issues", then KSA by the same token has no right to meddle in other Arab countries issues. So simple really. I dont know why its so hard for you to grasp.

You would have a legitimate point if you said Iran had no right to meddle in sovereign countries affairs. But by the same logic, KSA would not have the right either.
We are talking about sovereign states. The way you are talking suggest you have a somewhat misplaced sense of yourself and reality.

I know the difference, do you? Ive seen COUNTLESS of troll and flame posts by you as well.
So thats meddle then. Be constructive and dont meddle in other "Arab issues". lol

 

[al-Hasani]

@rmi5

Use google.

No, I am an Arab and I know what is happening in my world since I follow the news, speak with Arabs from across the Arab world and basically know what is going know and the trends/feelings/political views. I think that every Arab that just follows the events in this part of the world know about that as well.

No, they were ordinary peasants in some suburb. The point is that Egypt like most Arab countries have no love lost for Iran or the Mullah's and their supporters. That is a undeniable fact.

I already mentioned one civilization that is older than any other Iranian civilization. The Dilmun civilization. I don't consider Elam Iranians since those people were not Iranians or even Indo-Iranians or Turkic people obviously. Nabatean are another one. The ones in Hijaz too. Those in Yemen which were located in what is now KSA as well. The 4 Caliphates ruled by Arabs were other examples.

Well, you can thank your compatriots for that. And I can only say the same.

Well, apparently this forum was linked to some Iranian Mullah page which attracted the hordes of Iranians and trolls. Maybe also because Iran has their own section too? I don't really know. Pakistan is a neighbor of Iran. It does not border with any Arab country.

No, UAE's economy is not based on any Iranian economy. UAE is now an internal hub for tourism, transportation, trade etc. It is a leading country in that discipline in the ME.

Now you are bullshitting again. No common interests? We consider Emiratis as our own people since all of them have ancestral ties to KSA and are recent arrivals. We share everything that is valuable with them. That is why we work closely together on every field and why we are both members of the GCC, Arab League and have cordial and brotherly ties.

As I said the Emir of Dubai is not saying that out of the love for Iran or Iranians but simply due to business which until now has been one-sided - clearly in favor of UAE by a large margin. How can you dispute that? Come on.

No, they simply do not engage in that since we have enough of issues to deal with. KSA is not supporting any Baluch separatists in Pakistan. You are thinking about the old Iraqi support for them and the APPARENT Emirati support due to Gwadar.

But let us end it here since this is not the thread for this and I already made my point.

And it is also up to Iran then if wants to "meddle" in Arab countries as well then.
If Iran has no right to meddle in "Arab issues", then KSA by the same token has no right to meddle in other Arab countries issues. So simple really. I dont know why its so hard for you to grasp.

You would have a legitimate point if you said Iran had no right to meddle in sovereign countries affairs. But by the same logic, KSA would not have the right either.
We are talking about sovereign states. The way you are talking suggest you have a somewhat misplaced sense of yourself and reality.

I know the difference, do you? Ive seen COUNTLESS of troll and flame posts by you as well.
So thats meddle then. Be constructive and dont meddle in other "Arab issues". lol

Let me repeat myself. Notice the bold parts.

LOL. There are something called Arab internal issues and topics about the Arab world just like the same is the case with Iran and other regions/countries and people. Stop trying to make an outrageous claim of the opposite being the case. In that case there is no need for an Iranian section at all since there is no such thing as "Iranian issues" going by your logic.

The Syrian conflict is one tiny bit. I am talking about threads about the Arab world in general and what the world would call Arab issues. I can give you several examples just from today. Do you get me now?

Eh, it us up to us Arabs if we want to "meddle" in each others countries. Just like what Iranians are doing is their business. There are over 20 Arab countries of the world. We are a people spread on all continents. Arabs unlike most other ethnic groups do not only live in 1 single country but are spread at a large area that is connected geographically which the world calls the Arab world where people are tied in terms of ancestry, culture, language, religion, traditions, cuisine etc. in general. You know just like Iranians, despite living in different regions and belonging to different ethnic groups are labelled as Iranians because they share certain things with each other.

Anyway let me make it clear again. What I call meddling in this case = trolling.

Posting in threads as long as there is no trolling = contribution = I don't have a problem with this.

Do you know the difference between contributing and trolling?

PS: When you see me using the same medicine it is only a reply to the Iranian trolling and trolls, often double users as well. If I wanted to act in the same manner I would start with trolling in your section or in this very thread.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Let me repeat myself:

Let me also repeat myself

If we take Syria as one example. Syria is a sovereign state.
The Syria conflict is not more your issue than it is Iran's, because you are arab.
You are implying in one way or another that you are more "legitimate" to meddle than Iran, because you are racially Arab. See how flaw this logic is? Well, maybe not.
If you want to argue that Iran has no right to argue to meddle in other countries, then fine. But then KSA has no right either to meddle in other Arab issues. We are talking about sovereign states that has its own interests and makes decisions based on its own national interests. Regardless who is Arab and who is not.
I cant explain it further to you if you cling to such mindset "Arab issues". Its futile really.
And I find that there is much more trolling OR flame bating by you and the likes of you, than vice versa. Much much more in fact.

 

[rmi5]

@rmi5
Use google.
No, I am an Arab and I know what is happening in my world since I follow the news, speak with Arabs from across the Arab world and basically know what is going know and the trends/feelings/political views. I think that every Arab that just follows the events in this part of the world know about that as well.

BTW, you were talking about Iran not the mullah clan(mullahs, Hizballah, ...), otherwise it is not an interesting topic for me to discuss about it.

No, they were ordinary peasants in some suburb. The point is that Egypt like most Arab countries have no love lost for Iran or the Mullah's and their supporters. That is a undeniable fact.
I already mentioned one civilization that is older than any other Iranian civilization. The Dilmun civilization. I don't consider Elam Iranians since those people were not Iranians or even Indo-Iranians or Turkic people obviously. Nabatean are another one. The ones in Hijaz too. Those in Yemen which were located in what is now KSA as well. The 4 Caliphates ruled by Arabs were other examples.

Do you know anything about the "burnt city" or "Jiroft" civilization in the east of Iran, or about Caspis in the north of Iran. BTW, lets agree that your comment that, Elamites are not considered as Iranians, does not make any sense.

Well, you can thank your compatriots for that. And I can only say the same.
Well, apparently this forum was linked to some Iranian Mullah page which attracted the hordes of Iranians and trolls. Maybe also because Iran has their own section too? I don't really know. Pakistan is a neighbor of Iran. It does not border with any Arab country.

even by adding all of these factors, still it rejects your 500 millions supporter of house of Saud mindset and policies.

No, UAE's economy is not based on any Iranian economy. UAE is now an internal hub for tourism, transportation, trade etc. It is a leading country in that discipline in the ME.
Now you are bullshitting again. No common interests? We consider Emiratis as our own people since all of them have ancestral ties to KSA and are recent arrivals. We share everything that is valuable with them. That is why we work closely together on every field and why we are both members of the GCC, Arab League and have cordial and brotherly ties.
As I said the Emir of Dubai is not saying that out of the love for Iran or Iranians but simply due to business which until now has been one-sided - clearly in favor of UAE by a large margin. How can you dispute that? Come on.

You did not get the point. I was talking about Dubai not the UAE. Why do you always generalize everything in the discussion?!!! As a saudi, you should very well know that different emirates have very different policies. Can you really say that Fujairah and Ajman's policy which are literally mullahs agents is the same as Abu-Dhabi's policies? What about Dubai, Ras Al-Khaimah, and Sharjah? are they the same as Abu Dhabi in these regards? BTW, instead of saying empty words, look at the facts. they have more common interests with Iran, due to their huge economical ties with Iran, and the huge Iranian population there and their proximity with Iranian coasts while it is not generally the case for Abu-Dhabi since she is a gas station and her emir(Shaikh Zayed) is retarded compared to the emir of Dubai(Sheikh Mohammed Al Maktum).

No, they simply do not engage in that since we have enough of issues to deal with. KSA is not supporting any Baluch separatists in Pakistan. You are thinking about the old Iraqi support for them and the APPARENT Emirati support due to Gwadar.

Really?
So, why Al-Arabia TV broadcast them 24/7 whenever they do some terrorist action, and cheer for them?

But let us end it here since this is not the thread for this and I already made my point.

OK.

 

[rmi5]

I think it is too late to back off from Syria policy. Although I don't like Erdogan. If his policies fail, Turkey fails and we all fail.

I disagree, brother. Every one can change his own decisions and path in the politics world and whenever he wants. being flexible is a prerequisite in the politics.

worst case scenario would be when Assad stays in power and proxy war continues. Assad and his father did this before with supporting PPK. I'm glad Assad got a piece of his own pie.

Assad is a mass-murderer and I don't have any respect for him. He was supporting kurds as well. But, the other side of the coin are some ultra fanatic islamist arab racist terrorists who will cause tons of problems for Turkey as a neighbor if they get succeeded. remember that these goons who make the main part of the Assad's oppositions, have a deep hatred toward seculars and non-Arabs. Some of them even have included Hatay to their future map for Syria. You can find such maps easily by searching in internet. So, Turkish people, and politicians should be extremely careful about them.

On the other hand. This conflict is going on for too long. Goddamned Americans first acted like they were supportive and then let us down. I hope Erdogan learnt not to trust Americans.

That's what I knew that would happen, and it was crystal clear for me; since I know mullahs and I knew that they would not give up easily and also, I knew very well that seeking a new trouble in Israel's borders is the last thing that Obama wants.

 

[atatwolf]

I disagree, brother. Every one can change his own decisions and path in the politics world and whenever he wants. being flexible is a prerequisite in the politics.

Well, what are the options then? There are no options left. It is too far in the game. Maybe you have an option we don't see. Glad to hear it out

Assad is a mass-murderer and I don't have any respect for him. He was supporting kurds as well. But, the other side of the coin are some ultra fanatic islamist arab racist terrorists who will cause tons of problems for Turkey as a neighbor if they get succeeded. remember that these goons who make the main part of the Assad's oppositions, have a deep hatred toward seculars and non-Arabs. Some of them even have included Hatay to their future map for Syria. You can find such maps easily by searching in internet. So, Turkish people, and politicians should be extremely careful about them.

That's what I knew that would happen, and it was crystal clear for me; since I know mullahs and I knew that they would not give up easily and also, I knew very well that seeking a new trouble in Israel's borders is the last thing that Obama wants.

Well, we can agree there are no good options but there is no way back. Only forward. Those Arabs calming Hatay. There are so many people claiming piece of Turkey, Assad also claimed Hatay, Assyrians half of Turkey, Armenians too. Arab insurgency can be dealt with since land is flat at the border. Those radical elements can be dealt with supporting counter factions.

 

[rmi5]

Well, what are the options then? There are no options left. It is too far in the game. Maybe you have an option we don't see. Glad to hear it out
Well, we can agree there are no good options but there is no way back. Only forward. Those Arabs calming Hatay. There are so many people claiming piece of Turkey, Assad also claimed Hatay, Assyrians half of Turkey, Armenians too. Arab insurgency can be dealt with since land is flat at the border. Those radical elements can be dealt with supporting counter factions.

I think the best option for Turkey would be avoiding to take sides in the favor of each sides and closing the borders, specially when they fall into kurds or goons hands, and repairing the relations with mullahs side again. That's what the turkish government is currently doing, closing borders, building border walls, and repairing the important economical and energy ties with Iran. Turkey needs to keep eyes on them and on the future events as well, be patient, and take sides only when one of the sides was changing the balance. until that time, this neutral position would be the best for Turkey
BTW, Almost no one is left on the other side since Mursi is gone, and Palestinians(Hamas) are not even willing to be against mullahs in this conflict anymore. Qatar is too small and unreliable, and Saudi's position is also supporting AQ goons(Al-Nusrah), and other ultra retard goons. West also does not give a damn about Syria, since there are no major oil reserves there and they want to be only a supportive of Israel, and do not make more trouble for them.

 

[Syrian Lion]

Iran should be careful, Turkey (AKP) is not a trusted partner, I remember Syria's and Turkish ties, they were the best even better than Syria-Russia ties... but Turkey (AKP) betrayed Syria and the Syrian people and followed the west, after all, Turkey is part of NATO... Iran need to be careful...

 

[atatwolf]

Iran should be careful, Turkey (AKP) is not a trusted partner, I remember Syria's and Turkish ties, they were the best even better than Syria-Russia ties... but Turkey (AKP) betrayed Syria and the Syrian people and followed the west, after all, Turkey is part of NATO... Iran need to be careful...

Assad should have thought about that before going on rampage on his own people.

By the way, all Syrians I met in Turkey saw Turks as their brother and Assad as the monster.

Time to clean this mess up.

I think the best option for Turkey would be avoiding to take sides in the favor of each sides and closing the borders, specially when they fall into kurds or goons hands, and repairing the relations with mullahs side again. That's what the turkish government is currently doing, closing borders, building border walls, and repairing the important economical and energy ties with Iran. Turkey needs to keep eyes on them and on the future events as well, be patient, and take sides only when one of the sides was changing the balance. until that time, this neutral position would be the best for Turkey
BTW, Almost no one is left on the other side since Mursi is gone, and Palestinians(Hamas) are not even willing to be against mullahs in this conflict anymore. Qatar is too small and unreliable, and Saudi's position is also supporting AQ goons(Al-Nusrah), and other ultra retard goons. West also does not give a damn about Syria, since there are no major oil reserves there and they want to be only a supportive of Israel, and do not make more trouble for them.

But that would mean Assad would remain in power. Only if Assad leaves I can see deal with Iran. Otherwise there will be no deal. That is what I mean there is no way back,