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Turkey-Pakistan Relationship

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Why do Turks Like Pakistan?
* By Sedat Laçiner, Assoc. Prof. Dr.

Many statesmen believe in that the states have no friends, but interests. That’s why the number of states which have ‘special relations’ is few. US-UK relations or US-Israel relations are exceptional. Even in these examples we see that the national interests are more important than the emotional dimension. In this framework Turkish-Pakistani relations have always been special. In spite of the geographical distance and the clear economic and social differences between two countries, Turks have always loved the Pakistanis. Although the Pakistanis are not Turkish origin people, they have always been called ‘brothers’ in Turkey. Brotherhood between these two countries was something emerged before the family ties between the Turkish Republics and Turkey to be bounded.

Like many Turkish people I did not question Pakistan’s friendship, yet one of the answers I was trying to find prior to my 8 day-trip to Pakistan was the reasons of this profound sympathy. On the Pakistan way, may be first time in my life I wondered why do Turks like Pakistan? I thought whether the Turkish-Pakistani love is delusion or not.

***

I will share my Pakistan notes in the near future, but in this essay I would rather try to understand the main roots of our Pakistan sympathy:

The things I saw in my 2000 km journey, including 5 cities from Karachi-southern coast- to Burban-the very north of Pakistan-, was totally devastating for me and the other members of the Turkish delegation. It is clear that Pakistan has been passing through difficult times in terms of politics, security and economics. My soul and heart were hurt by the level of difficulties these beautiful people face. Besides all that tragedy, I and other members of the Turkish delegation found out something that every visitor to Pakistan experience: Pakistan is certainly the country that likes Turkey the most in this world.

***

In one of the meetings the USAK in Ankara, the Pakistani Ambassador Seyid Iftikhar Hüseyin Shah had answered very positively all our questions and declared Pakistan’s support for any political problem Turkey faces: For example when we talked about Cyprus issue, terror or any other important topics, all of which he replied: “Pakistan would support you”. An ambassador’s response this fast and impulsive was quite shocking for USAK researchers if it was not suspicious. After seeing the shocked expressions in our faces, Ambassador Shah smiled and looked into our eyes saying “Pakistan would always support Turkey, because your country is Turkey, and you are Turkish.” We simply understand that Turkey has Pakistan’s political support in any issue with no hesitation. Such support and ties were naturally unexpected for Anglo-Saxon type educated people like us and it was a surprise for us when we are talking about a so ‘alone country’ in Europe, Turkey. What is more impressive was that we heard the same replies throughout Islamabad, Karachi and Lahor. All Pakistanis told us that “Pakistan would always support Turkey just because you are Turkey, and you are Turkish”

***

The first thing I discovered while I was questioning the reasons of this exceptional “chum” relationship was how lonely Pakistan was. Being stuck between India, Iran, Afghanistan and China, Pakistan suffers a great loneliness. All of Pakistan’s neighbors are either too problematic, like Afghanistan, or too distant from adopting a close relationship on equal terms with the country. Take India for example, after the British left, it started drawing a profile of “Big Brother” of the region. Iran, where there are still strong signs of a pursuit for the Persian Empire (or expansion of the Islamist regime?), is no different. On the contrary, Iran’s ‘intolerable’ conceit and desire for ideological propagation, makes it almost impossible to create a strong relationship. Afghanistan, probably the most similar country to Pakistan in terms of geography and demography, is now like a fireball and is ready to porch. Inside all the neighbors of Pakistan, the most loved one is certainly China. Because of its support to Pakistan in their relations with India, Chinese relations are special for Pakistanis. The “real China” is, however, is the very east of the country. Besides, it is fairly hard to imagine a Chinese – Pakistani closeness, compared to a one with Turkey. Moreover the relations with the West is also problematic. Although Islamabad Government has always been very helpful for the Western policies against terrorism, Pakistan cannot find a similar support and empathy in the West.

Turkey is certainly the most similar country to Pakistan in the world with its ‘special loneliness’. Although it is at the heart of the global issues and has quite strong ties with the East and the West, Turkey is not part of any world in reality. It is sui generis and Turkish people still feel aloneness in the West and in the region like Pakistan. It can be said that this shared aloneness is one of the factors in Turkish – Pakistani friendship. Turks can understand the Pakistanis before the double standards of the great powers.

Besides their common loneliness, the historical caliphate is believed to be another reason of the Turkish sympathy in Pakistan. The Ottoman sultans were considered the head of the all Muslims in many countries. Thanks to the Abdulhamid II’s efforts the influence of the Turkish caliphates’ increased dramatically in the Indian subcontinent. The Turks were considered as a balancing power against the occupying British in India. Therefore Indian Muslims felt themselves very close, even engaged, to the Anatolian Muslim Turks. More strangely, not only the Muslims, but also all other oppressed societies in India felt themselves close to the Ottoman Empire in these years. Including Gandhi, the Indians were all saddened by the declaration of secular Turkish Republic and the cassation of the caliphate chair. They were not against secularism but the evaporation of the Caliphate as they saw the Caliphate as an influential tool against imperialism in India. Despite their sadness, both Hindus and Muslim Indians respected Turkish people’s decision, continued to see citizens of the Modern Turkish Republic as the sons of the Ottomans.

Another factor of the sympathy was unfortunately the turmoil both Turkey and Pakistan experienced, particularly the military coups. The 12 September 1980 Coup’s General President Kenan Evren for instance was not welcomed at all in the Western European countries. He could only visit or more accurately only welcomed by Bulgaria, Romania, soma Arab countries and Pakistan. The same thing was, of course, true for Pakistan. Turkish officials have always welcomed Pakistanis no matter what their political conditions were.

Turkey’s strong support for Pakistan in the Kashmir case has also been a major contributor to the relationship. In spite of the problems with India, Turkey kept to its support and said: “… just because you are Pakistan.”

Although it is a debatable issue, another important point that needs to be mentioned here is the ethnic roots of Pakistan community. The country is clearly affected by the neighboring countries it stuck between. Fingerprints can be seen in its language, religion, culture and in many other areas. Its foods and music are, along with a lot other characteristics, is a synthesis. However, the Turkish signs can only be seen when looked closer. Even physical similarities can be observed. Turkish clans entering the inside of the Indian subcontinent have affected the region so deeply that its fingerprints inherited to the Pakistan of today. In other words, our ties with Pakistanis are not just mental, but we might also, with the help of modern science, observe different aspects of the ties by looking at the genes of our Pakistani brothers. Such a fact would certainly be shocking, but not very unexpected.

More recently, Turkey’s immediate help to Pakistan in the earthquake disaster was definitely the most major contributor to the relationship between the countries. All Pakistanis, from government officials to ordinary people, are very grateful for their brother country’s aids. They said that Turkey was there with both volunteers and officials helping them rescuing their people in a disaster which 75.000 people died. Moreover, they told us that Turks also did not leave immediately, but helped rebuilding the devastated country. They were so impressed from this immense help that Imam Abdullah said in a speech he made in Eidgahah Mosque: “Pakistan is Turkey and Turkey is Pakistan.”

Another recent contribution of the disaster to Turkish-Pakistani relationship is the fact that Turkish Premier, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was the first leader to visit the country after the great disaster. Showing one more time the importance of timing in diplomacy, that his visit and speech impressed Pakistanis as much as Turkish aids did. Even though he may be aware of the consequences of his visit, Mr. Erdogan certainly did something very important for closeness between Pakistan and Turkey.

The last visit to Pakistan made by Turkish President Abdullah Gul was also important in this context. His visit after the devastating assassination of Benazir Bhutto, which is an incident that almost put the country into a chaos, proved Turkey’s support to the country one more time. The message President Gul gave by meeting with all leaders in the country was clear: “Pakistani leaders should stop fighting each other and maintain peace and unity in the country.” Thanks to the efforts of Turkish ambassador Engin Soysal and his team, Turkey has continued to play a special role in bridging the opposing Pakistani groups. It is clear that almost all Pakistani political parties trust on the Turks. That’s why Turkish diplomats or politicians can organize in a very limited time so many sensitive meetings which affect Pakistani political life.

***

As a conclusion, it seems that Turks have enough reasons to see Pakistan as a brother country. Besides, the heating environment of the “Great Middle East” also brings countries like Turkey and Pakistan, and other countries affected by the United States policies in the region. The wrong policies of the White House force the regional powers to make more co-cooperation and Turkish-Pakistani relations is no exception.

I will continue writing on our Pakistan experiences. However, for now, I will stop here by telling people who do not believe in Turkey-Pakistan closeness that: We the Turks love Pakistanis because they are Pakistani.

July 2008

slaciner@gmail.com

Translated by Nilgun Gulcan and Kerem Kilic (JTW)
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Davutoğlu says Pakistan’s stability as vital as Turkey’s

Foreign Minister Davutoğlu presides over a UN Security Council meeting in New York on Thursday.
Stability in Pakistan, which is currently battling the Taliban in the Swat Valley, is as important for Turkey as its own stability, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu has said.

Davutoğlu, speaking to reporters in New York after presiding over the first session of the UN Security Council meeting following Turkey's assumption of the council's presidency for one month beginning June 1, said he would voice Turkey's firm will to stand by the Pakistani government in its efforts for unity in the country when he visits Pakistan and Afghanistan next week.
“For Turkey, Pakistan's stability is as important as its own stability. Irrespective of what political views or sects they belong to, the security and well-being of all Pakistanis are as important for Turkey as its own security and well-being,” he told reporters on Thursday.

Davutoğlu's remarks came a day before a bomb blast killed around 40 worshippers attending Friday prayers at a mosque in a remote area of northwest Pakistan. The attack in Upper Dir is the ninth bomb attack in the country since the Pakistani army launched a major offensive last month to expel Taliban militants in the Swat Valley. The Taliban has threatened more attacks in revenge for the Swat operation. Western allies, worried the nuclear-armed country was sliding into chaos, have welcomed Pakistan's show of steel and the army action has received wide support from major political parties, the public and media.

Davutoğlu said he would meet with leaders of the government as well as the opposition to discuss how best Pakistan's national unity could be maintained and how Turkey could be helpful in this regard. He also pledged that Turkey would work harder in June to “positively affect developments” in Afghanistan and Pakistan as the president of the UN Security Council, something which he says offers Turkey a “historic” chance to prove it could affect not only the regional developments, but also global problems in a constructive way.

Pakistan is a close ally of Turkey, with both countries sharing historical links and cooperating in military and defense areas. The United States, concerned over chaos in Pakistan -- a major US ally in the fight against Taliban insurgency in neighboring Afghanistan -- is also encouraging more Turkish assistance for Pakistan. In remarks this week, Mullen said he was “working on Turkey” regarding Pakistan, causing speculation in Turkish media that the US seeks Turkish involvement in efforts to help Pakistan in its anti-Taliban battle.

Speaking in Washington after talks with his US counterpart, Adm. Michael Mullen, Chief of Staff Gen. İlker Başbuğ said the Turkish military was ready to meet every request for military training or military equipment that could come from Pakistan.

“I would even send the very equipment my troops are using if there is an urgent need in Pakistan,” Başbuğ said, adding, “This is what Adm. Mullen meant.” He, however, underlined that it was primarily a country's own responsibility to deal with threats against its security and added that he was confident that the Pakistani military would soon successfully remove the security threat it now faces.


http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...7313&bolum=100
 
Well, time to look beyond simple words...

RAW & MOSSAD fail to derail Pakistan-Iran pipeline. Deal defies US.
Posted on June 6, 2009 by Moin Ansari
The signing of the Iran-Pakistan pipeline and the release of Mumbai suspect Saeed on the eve of Richard Holbrooke’s visit to Islamabad can be described in one word–Defiance. The signatures thumb their nose at the US sanctions on Iran and the release of the most hated person in Delhi asks India to read between the lines (read the finger between the index finger & second finger). It must have taken the PPPP all the guts it could muster, but the bottom line is that Mr. Gilani has prevailed and the pipeline deal between Tehran and Iran has been signed.

This is not just a steel pipe running over barren land. This is a rope which ties Iran and Pakistan together in an embrace from which there is no retreat. This is the beginning of putting life into the dormant ECO (Economic Cooperation Organization. This is the resurrection of the RCD (Regional Cooperation for Development).

Iran and and Pakistan have been talking about the pipeline for more than a decade. However it took a personal effort from the Pakistani president and the Iranian leadership to finally push the deal through. From the very beginning, the US has opposed the Iran Pakistan pipeline for two reasons. It wanted the TAPI pipeline, and it it wanted Iran outside the pipeline grid. The politics of IPC, IPI, TAPI, TAPIC

In the end Iran and Pakistan won.

Iran Pakistan gas pipelineFor a few hours it was touch and go. For the first time in the history of Tehran-Islamabad relations, the Pakistani ambassador had to face a mild demarche from Tehran. What is curious is the fact that even the demarche did not blame the Pakistani government, it blamed foreign powers staging the attack from Pakistani territory. PM Gilani and President Zardari went into overdrive, arrested every one of the named Jundallah agents and shipped them to Iran. The Pakistanis also sent the elite Pakistani commandos to chase down the Mossad and RAW agents who are supporting Jundullah. Apparently the concrete actions and the general visibility of CIA and the MI6 in Iran told the Iranians who the culprits behind Jundulllah are. The CIA has been spending $450 million to destabilize Iran, fomenting trouble in Iranian Krudistan, the Iranian Azeris, and Khuzistan (aka Arabistan). The apparent cooperation of the BLA, and Jundallah told Tehran reams about the “conspiracy” that is being hatched. The BLA did’t do any favors by acknowledging the fact that they and Jundullah have an office in Tel Aviv. Hizbullah vs. Jundullah–Iranian Israeli proxy wars

The Iranians are shrewed negotiators. After 2001 the fully cooperated with the USA in finding and handing over key Al-Qaida and Taliban insurgents to America. They provided precise information to the USA on the whereabouts of the Taliban. This time around they thought it more prudent to work with the Pakistanis. Israel’s new neighbor-”Iran”- Impact of a Hizbullah run Labanon

A last ditch effort by a revamped Jundullah was nipped in the bud and ignored. Junduallah had tried to stage an attack on an Iranian mosque and had tried to blame it on Pakistan. However the tactic failed and better sense prevailed in Tehran.

The Iranians figure that the the terror in Sistan-Baluchistan is being caused by the same powers that published the Ralph Peters map. Mr. Peters now regularly appears on the Fox Network and even suggested that all Gitmo prisoners should be shot dead. As if one needed proof of his insanity, he further pointed out the fact that the US is not taking any more prisoners, instead it is shooting them all. All this is not lost to the Iranians.

ANKARA: The gas pipeline project between neighboring Pakistan and Iran has been formally signed here late on Friday, Geo news reported. The agreement was signed between Iranian National Oil Company (INOC) and Pakistani Interstate Gas Company (PIGC)..

The Managing Director (MD) of PIGC Hassan Nawab told Geo news the agreement is governed through third country law so it was bound to be signed in a third country and has been signed here in Turkey.
He said the work on the project has commenced from today (Friday) and will be completed by 2013 whereby Pakistan will receive 750 cubic million gas on daily basis which will be enough for generation of 4000 megawatt electricity.

“The gas pipeline will begin from Gawadar near Iranian border having 800 kilometer length”, he maintained adding, “The determination of gas price will be linked with contemporary oil prices at international market but will be less than 25 per cent as compared to crude oil prices”. The estimated cost of the project will be US $1.2 billion, he added. The News

Turkey has gone through its own convulsions with Israel, after Israel tried to topple the Islamic government in Ankara. The Israeli Turkish relations are at the lowest ebb. The theatrics at the G8 summit were only the tip of the iceberg.. Turkey as a great friend of Pakistan has played a key role on two counts. It has brought the temperature down between Kabul and Islamabad and it has convinced the Iranians to deal with Pakistan. While the USA had threatened sanctions against any international firm bidding on the project the the Iranians had planned to build the pipeline themselves. In fact they have already started work on it. Pakistan has a few major oil companies working on pipeline construction. Attock refinery and Pakistan Oilfields have had more than several decades of experience in building and maintaining pipelines. The Oil and Gas Development Corporation (OGDC) also has huge infrastructure to build the pipeline. Pipelines through Turkey

Iran Pakistan Pipeline. As reported earlier by Rupee News, one of the most fascinating part of the “the Pipeline game” is the entrance of Russia into the picture. Russia attacked Georgia to control oil pipeline. It has been revealed without much fanfare that Russia’s Gozprom is one of the bidders on the pipeline. Gozprom’s entrance into a major Pakistani project is a huge development in the history of South Asia. For Russia to finance the billion Dollar project is no small matter. If China and Russia cooperate on the venture, Iran can be hooked up to the Russian grid. This maintains the status quo. Russia thus continues its monopoly on energy. it can hold a knife at Europe’s jugular and thus prevent NATO encroachment into the Russian sphere of influence. Already Russia and China are wary of US intentions in Central Asia. Russia spent a billion dollars to steal away a US base in one of the former Soviet republics. Though the US have been given a facility by Islamov, but the fact that the US was asked to vacate a base is of major importance in international affairs. In a very significant development, Iran has promised to supply free electricity to the port of Gwader. This essentially signals the cementing of Pakistani-Iranian relations as never before. Iran also posted its elite Revolutionary Guards on the Baluch border to assist Pakistan against foreign and domestic enemies. Pakistan has appreciated this effort from brotherly Iran–beyond words.

There is another dimension to the puzzle. It is the Indian influence. Like Lord Curzon the current rulers in Delhi think that Delhi has a role in Central Asia. Pakistan is a major impediment to Delhi’s reach to Bokhara and Samarkand. India’s new view of Iran? All roads lead to Islamabad!

A few years ago the Iranian president had made a trip to Bharat (aka India) amid much fanfare. At the time, India had convinced Iran on building an alternative route to Kabul through Chahbahar. India had hoped on setting up some competition to Gwadar in reaching Central Asia. Hundreds of Indians worked in Iran trying to hook up the Iranian road system to the Afghan ring road. Never in the history of mankind has a road of a few dozen kilometers been given as much publicity as the one build by India in Afghanistan. Even before the opening of the road, all bridges had been blown up and the road is in the hands of the Taliban and remains unusable.

The Indo-Iranian relationship has fallen into the ditch of mistrust and betrayal after India stabbed Iran at the IAEA and launched an Iran specific satellite for Israel. The Israeli influence in Delhi has led to a rapid decline in relations between Delhi and Tehran.

After India withdrew from the “Peace pipeline” it became totally clear to the mullahs of Tehran that India could not be trusted. With Jundallah operatives openly being trained in Afghanistan under the auspices of RAW and Mossad, Tehran had made its decision. It would build the pipeline with Pakistan. There is no chance of the pipeline being extended to India. The circumference of the pipeline has been reduced from 56 inches to 42 inches. Even if India wanted to import Iranian gas in the future, there is not enough capacity in the pipeline. For India to import gas from Iran, a new pipeline will have to be laid in parallel to the existing one–something that is unlikely to happen once the original pipeline has been built.

The US is working hard on attempting to seduce Tehran. Iran is making its own moves, trying to show the West that it can put forward a more moderate leader like Mosavi, which doesn’t deny the holocaust and who is not so brusque.

China rail integrates Afghanistan, Tajikistan, & Pakistan. June will tell a story. For the first time Sri Lanka is being invited to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization as an observer. In international relations this means that both Delhi and Khatmandu are competing for the same seat on the SCO. There are rumors that Iran may be given membership to the SCO. This may or may not happen. China doesn’t want a confrontation with the US. Russia on the other hand is not inclined to be so docile. Only time will tell if and when the SCO will be formally expanded. However for all practical purposes, Iran and Pakistan are in the inner circle. With Lanka joining the SCO as a Pakistani and Chinese ally, Delhi is the odd man out. IPC pipeline heralds the eviction fo India from Afghanistan and Chahbahar.

With President Barack Obama officially announcing retreat from Afghanistan, and with Swat more or less clear of the RAW infestation, the Delhi sponsored terrorists can continue to bomb civilians but India knows that the gig is up and RAW has lost its game to control Amu Darya. Thanks to Iran and Turkey, Afghan Pakistani relations have never been better. Mr. Karzai now sees the writing on the wall. With the appointment of Mr. Zalmay Khalilzad in his fiefdom, he is now willing to play ball with Pakistan.
 
Although the Pakistanis are not Turkish origin people, they have always been called ‘brothers’ in Turkey.
I dispute that, Pakistanis are turko-mongol-Persian. We have turkish roots are from central Asia like Turkmenistan.

Timur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mahmud of Ghazna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyhow that is history only good for discussion. Unlike many other regional countries Pakistan and Turkey both have democracy and freedom. This is why when a Turkish visit Pakistan he culture seems familiar to him and he feels like home.
 
Turkey has been working hard these few years on bringing peace between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Also during the Turkish war of independence, the British recruited many Muslims from the region that is now Pakistan. When the Muslims heard Azaan in Turkey they sided with the Turks and ditched the British. Many Turks still haven't forgotten that.

China and Turkey are the two friends we can rely on.

By the way, the railway plan that will connect Pakistan to Turkey via Iran is one of the best ideas ever.
 
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Turkey has been working hard these few years on bringing peace between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Also during the Turkish war of independence, the British recruited many Muslims from the region that is now Pakistan. When the Muslims heard Azaan in Turkey they sided with the Turks and ditched the British. Many Turks still haven't forgotten that.

China and Turkey are the two friends we can rely on.

By the way, the railway plan that will connect Pakistan to Turkey via Iran is one of the best ideas ever.

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:cheers:
 
Davutoğlu says Pakistan’s stability as vital as Turkey’s


Stability in Pakistan, which is currently battling the Taliban in the Swat Valley, is as important for Turkey as its own stability, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu has said.

Davutoğlu, speaking to reporters in New York after presiding over the first session of the UN Security Council meeting following Turkey's assumption of the council's presidency for one month beginning June 1, said he would voice Turkey's firm will to stand by the Pakistani government in its efforts for unity in the country when he visits Pakistan and Afghanistan next week.
“For Turkey, Pakistan's stability is as important as its own stability. Irrespective of what political views or sects they belong to, the security and well-being of all Pakistanis are as important for Turkey as its own security and well-being,” he told reporters on Thursday.

Davutoğlu's remarks came a day before a bomb blast killed around 40 worshippers attending Friday prayers at a mosque in a remote area of northwest Pakistan. The attack in Upper Dir is the ninth bomb attack in the country since the Pakistani army launched a major offensive last month to expel Taliban militants in the Swat Valley. The Taliban has threatened more attacks in revenge for the Swat operation. Western allies, worried the nuclear-armed country was sliding into chaos, have welcomed Pakistan's show of steel and the army action has received wide support from major political parties, the public and media.

Davutoğlu said he would meet with leaders of the government as well as the opposition to discuss how best Pakistan's national unity could be maintained and how Turkey could be helpful in this regard. He also pledged that Turkey would work harder in June to “positively affect developments” in Afghanistan and Pakistan as the president of the UN Security Council, something which he says offers Turkey a “historic” chance to prove it could affect not only the regional developments, but also global problems in a constructive way.

Pakistan is a close ally of Turkey, with both countries sharing historical links and cooperating in military and defense areas. The United States, concerned over chaos in Pakistan -- a major US ally in the fight against Taliban insurgency in neighboring Afghanistan -- is also encouraging more Turkish assistance for Pakistan. In remarks this week, Mullen said he was “working on Turkey” regarding Pakistan, causing speculation in Turkish media that the US seeks Turkish involvement in efforts to help Pakistan in its anti-Taliban battle.

Speaking in Washington after talks with his US counterpart, Adm. Michael Mullen, Chief of Staff Gen. İlker Başbuğ said the Turkish military was ready to meet every request for military training or military equipment that could come from Pakistan.

“I would even send the very equipment my troops are using if there is an urgent need in Pakistan,” Başbuğ said, adding, “This is what Adm. Mullen meant.” He, however, underlined that it was primarily a country's own responsibility to deal with threats against its security and added that he was confident that the Pakistani military would soon successfully remove the security threat it now faces.



Davuto?lu says Pakistan?s stability as vital as Turkey?s
 
no doubt turkey has been playin a great role. they have done a lot to reduce friction bw pakistan and afghanistan. also there role is not less significant when it comes to improved ties bw iran and pakistan.
comin to desasters. turkey has been the most consistant of all. even now they have sent a lot of relief goods to pakistan and they are still sendin more. it wont be fair if i dont mention that US has helped us the most in this IDP crisis.
then we have got defence ties as well which play a very important role.
may be common religion and our historical support for each other makes this relation even more emotional.
 
I dispute that, Pakistanis are turko-mongol-Persian. We have turkish roots are from central Asia like Turkmenistan.

give me a break man. Have you ever seen a central asian turko-mongol? are you suggesting most Pakistanis look like this:

_42254754_assembly.jpg


---------- Post added at 06:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 AM ----------

I wish all those arab/persian/turkic wannabe Pakistanis would do some genetic research or at least look at images of turkic people before saying oh we are all turkic or persian :pakistan:
 
A little background:

First muslim dynasty of India, from 1250 to about 1500 AD was Turkish speaking. They were central asian turks and people living in modern day afghanistan. Later, mughals (from dynasty of Taimur) become ruler of India. They were also Turkish speaking people. So for a long time, Turkish was the language of the court and most muslim officials of the court were from Turkish race. Later in mughal era, Farsi (persian) became language of the court and remained so for about 3 centuries.

This leaves us with a lot of common vocabulary and customs. The name of language of muslims of India - Urdu - is itself from Turk origin.

Muslim rulers used to take the "Letter of Legitimacy" for their rule from the Muslim Caliph. And as such, till end of Khilafat (caliphate), muslim rulers of India too that letter from Ottoman Caliph and Ottoman Caliph was considered the ultimate authority for Indian Muslim rulers. As such, Ottomans and Turks were considered "one of us", and "brothers".

During Ottoman/Russian wars of 19th century, and then later Balkan wars, indian muslims supported Turks. The first Urdu novel, Fasana Azad, written in first or second decade of 1800s, is about a muslim youth of india who goes to Turkey to fight with Ottoman armies against Russians.

During first world war, and then later Turkish war of independence, muslims of India physically, monetarily and politically supported Turks. The unrest in India, "The Jewel of British Crown", was so strong that british court had to promise to Indian muslims that they´ll protect Turkish state and Caliphate and won´t break it up.

And if I remember correctly, it was a time when Turks were fighting alone. Arabs and other muslims have been fighting against Turks and were giving full support to British and Allied armies. So in my opinion, at that time when Turks lost almost whole country to the invaders, the support of Indian muslims gave them tremendous moral boost and valuable gold to buy weapons. And Turks still remember their nearly only allies in that war that without any self interest helped them.

Pakistan is generally a very hospitable nation. Even Americans are met with very good hospitality (unless off course they go to taliban area), but if you say you are a Turk, you immediately become a good friend if not part of family.

And so far, this has been my own experience with Turks as well. They like Pakistanis.
 
1250 AD-First Muslim dynasty of India.. .. Hmm, so India did exist before 1947 ;) ??
 
Pakistan is also the gateway to central Asian Turkic republics and has absorbed a lot from Turkic culture. So naturally Turkey-Pakistan feels so close to them. At a trade fair sponsored by Turkish Ministry last year and had 80% of its capacity taken by Turkish delegations, I was touched by the friendliness of Turkish people for Pakistanis. We got special treatment where ever we went.
 
give me a break man. Have you ever seen a central asian turko-mongol? are you suggesting most Pakistanis look like this:

_42254754_assembly.jpg


---------- Post added at 06:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 AM ----------

I wish all those arab/persian/turkic wannabe Pakistanis would do some genetic research or at least look at images of turkic people before saying oh we are all turkic or persian :pakistan:

Generally speaking i agree what you are saying is true but i would also like to point out that Pakistanis come from all kinds of backgrounds. You do have Central Asian turkic-mongolian people in Pakistan

Saira%252520batool%2525201st%252520pilot%252520hazara.jpg

Saira Batool - Airforce pilot

225px-General_Musa.jpg

Musa Khan

However the majority do not look like this. There may be some Central Asian blood in them (e.g. i belong to the Kamboj tribe, which originated from modern day Tajikistan and N. Pakistan.)
 
Hazaras have mongol-turkic(maybe) ancestory.... altough turi(if im correct),kambojs,chughtais,karlughs,mughals,uzbeks,turkmen,krgyz,uighurs,qazalbash,even bosnians, etc etc all have turkic ancestory.
 

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