Turkey calls for no-fly zone in Syria

[explorer9]

The FSA rodents are being pounded by the Syrian army, so the no fly zone is the only way the US, Turkey, GCC can achieve their objective. But not gonna happen. It will be vetoed by Russia and China.
Its very natural for Turkey to call for such a desperate move of a no fly zone. They are panicking after their massive foreign policy failure in Syria, which was to shelter terrorists in order to oust a neighbour's government. And when Assad and Syrian government wins the war (not if, when) Turkey will have a very bitter enemy in its southern border. Man what a mess Erdogan has dragged Turkey into. They should just cut their losses and accept that Assad or the Syrian government is here to stay. Turkey just keep making it worst for themselves lol

What ever Russia and Iran could do in their capacity, they are doing so, to save Al-Assad but "ultimately" Al-Assad will have to go the only question is "WHEN". Tell me how many regimes that Russia have saved with its Arms & diplomacy. Most of the pro Al-Assad members here write from there heart and their is no offence in that, but from the Military & geopolitical standpoint, Al-Assad's fall is inevitable.

 

[ResurgentIran]

What ever Russia and Iran could do in their capacity, they are doing so, to save Al-Assad but "ultimately" Al-Assad will have to go the only question is "WHEN". Tell me how many regimes that Russia have saved with its Arms & diplomacy. Most of the pro Al-Assad members here write from there heart and their is no offence in that, but from the Military & geopolitical standpoint, Al-Assad's fall is inevitable.

Actually Im not a staunch pro-Assad supporter, if you meant me.
I actually believe there was indeed a genuine internal opposition in Syria, that were pushing for reforms and pressuring Assad gov.
But this movement was hijacked by a very radical outside Islamist terrorists, backed by reactionary nations in the region (Saudi and Qatar). Turkey is normally not reactionary, but very pragmatic and diplomatic. But what they have done here is suicide in terms of their soft power projection and influence in the region. Instead of playing the role of a neutral mediator, they picked a side (a very radical one at that), sheltered terrorists in order to oust a sovereign government (whether one likes it or not).
As to whether Assad himself will go, that is questionable. Polls show that he enjoys a popular support by a narrow majority. I think after what has been unfold in these two years of crisis, he enjoys an even more wider popular base of support.

But regardless, even IF he goes. So?
Syria is not just Assad. Assad is one person. So from a geopolitical standpoint, nothing will change. Unless you think the FSA will actually win militarilly against the Syrian army..., But that is simply a pipe-dream and fantasy that realistic people should let go off.

 

[TurAr]

The FSA rodents are being pounded by the Syrian army, so the no fly zone is the only way the US, Turkey, GCC can achieve their objective. But not gonna happen. It will be vetoed by Russia and China.
Its very natural for Turkey to call for such a desperate move of a no fly zone, seeing as how its going horribly for the terrorists. Turkey is panicking after their massive foreign policy failure in Syria, which was to shelter terrorists in order to oust a neighbour's government. And when Assad and Syrian government wins the war (not if, when) Turkey will have a very bitter enemy in its southern border. Man what a mess Erdogan has dragged Turkey into. They should just cut their losses and accept that Assad Syrian government is here to stay. Turkey just keep making it worse for themselves lol

Well, you are underestimating the power of Turkey. Do you think the Turkish government would let Assad win after all they've been through? Assad will go, and a new Syrian government shall be under the influence of Turkey. To what extent the radical Islamists can be trusted is another question, which i believe has an obvious answer. But that doesn't mean there won't be any use of them.

By the way, what makes you think Assad winning the war?

 

[ResurgentIran]

Well, you are underestimating the power of Turkey. Do you think the Turkish government would let Assad win after all they've been through? Assad will go, and a new Syrian government shall be under the influence of Turkey. To what extent the radical Islamists can be trusted is another question, which, i believe has an obvious answer. But that doesn't mean there won't be any use of them.

By the way, what makes you think Assad winning the war?

When Assad wins, what is Turkey going to about it? Start a war? Im not underestimating Turkey, but I think you are overestimating just how much Turkey can control the outcome.
Any new government will be under very little Turkish influence, given their support for terrorists. Turkey has overplayed its hand. The notion that Turkey will have a friendly government in Syria, under Turkish influence, after all that has transpired in these two years, is quite absurd.
I agree with the Turkish politician and british chap in this video:

CrossTalk on Turkey: New Ottomans - YouTube

As the the question, I read news from different sources. Just the fact that Turkey is openly calling for a no fly zone, and UK is pushing EU to lift arms embargo on the insurgents, is indication enough that things are not going as well for the FSA, as was hoped for.

 

[explorer9]

Actually Im not a staunch pro-Assad supporter, if you meant me.
I actually believe there was indeed a genuine internal opposition in Syria, that were pushing for reforms and pressuring Assad gov.
But this movement was hijacked by a very radical outside Islamist terrorists, backed by reactionary nations in the region (Saudi and Qatar). Turkey is normally not reactionary, but very pragmatic and diplomatic. But what they have done here is suicide in terms of their soft power projection and influence in the region. Instead of playing the role of a neutral mediator, they picked a side (a very radical one at that), sheltered terrorists in order to oust a sovereign government (whether one likes it or not).
As to whether Assad himself will go, that is questionable. Polls show that he enjoys a popular support by a narrow majority. I think after what has been unfold in these two years of crisis, he enjoys an even more wider popular base of support.

But regardless, even IF he goes. So?
Syria is not just Assad. Assad is one person. So from a geopolitical standpoint, nothing will change. Unless you think the FSA will actually win militarilly against the Syrian army..., But that is simply a pipe-dream and fantasy that realistic people should let go off.

My post was general in nature not to pin point an individual. The first part of your post is quite relevant, let me add something that Bashar Al-Assad is not a person he is a cult like his father Hafez, Saddam Hussein, Mobrak etc. And cult figures have indoctrinated supporters even after their downfall or demise they are being remembered by them. The country has already been devastated and the current chaos will continue, it will take years if not decades to get the country back on track.

If you remember Al-Assad’s interview after Libyan protesters came on street, he said “Syria is different and there will be no protest here because Syria is axis against Israel and whole country is united on this stand”. In my view what he forget at that point of time is that anti Israelism/Zionism/Americanism does not provide leash to dictators to rule the state as long as they wish, change is inevitable (how it comes and how it is executed is a matter of differentiation).

Coming to the Turkish policy shift since the advent of Arab spring, it may be surprising for many but what I think is that the stand Turkey took is highly calibrated one and with lot of calculation and deliberation and in my view is based on long term pragmatic regional policy. Keeping in mind that only Shiet countries/groups are supporting Al-Assad and Sunnites to opposition that has turned the Syrian conflict in to Shiet-Sunnite sectarian war in the region” infact” this has consolidated Turkish position in the regional geopolitics. Syrian strife provided Turkey a scheme to maneuver its role more openly in terms of regional domination. The Syrian conflict will further divide the region and will certainly pierce in to Iraq and Lebanon with further bloodshed the outcome of conflict will decide that who will lead the region Iran+ Shiet states/groups or Turkey with Sunnite sates.

Suffice to say that with all the calculations it seems that Al-Assad regime will certainly fall and it will weaken the Iranian role in the regional geopolitics and will definitely surrender the Palestinian issue to Sunnite states.

 

[TurAr]

When Assad wins, what is Turkey going to about it? Start a war? Im not underestimating Turkey, but I think you are overestimating just how much Turkey can control the outcome.
Any new government will be under very little Turkish influence, given their support for terrorists. Turkey has overplayed its hand. The notion that Turkey will have a friendly government in Syria, under Turkish influence, after all that has transpired in these two years, is quite absurd.
I agree with the Turkish politician and british chap in this video:

Assad won't win anything. Start a war to prevent it? IMO it is possible. There had been many excuses (jet crisis, deaths of 5 Turkish civillians) for Turkish government to involve Turkey physically into this mess, but thanks to common sense of Turkish people who are aggainst risking Turkish lifes for a war that has nothing to do with us, it has held AKP back so far. If things go south for FSA, hence Turkish government, i see no reason for another mysterious shell not to fell in the middle of a Turkish city, resulting with many deaths.

As the the question, I read news from different sources. Just the fact that Turkey is openly calling for a no fly zone, and EU is pushing to lift arms embargo on the insurgents, is indication enough that things are not going as well for the FSA as was hoped for.

I think that's due to endurance of Assad has exceeded the expectations. Hell, FSA started to shoot down SAA aircrafts on almost daily basis. So no, Assad certainly is not winning anything.

By the way, i'll watch the video later.

 

[ResurgentIran]

My post was general in nature not to pin point an individual. The first part of your post is quite relevant, let me add something that Bashar Al-Assad is not a person he is a cult like his father Hafez, Saddam Hussein, Mobrak etc. And cult figures have indoctrinated supporters even after their downfall or demise they are being remembered by them. The country has already been devastated and the current chaos will continue, it will take years if not decades to get the country back on track.

If you remember Al-Assad’s interview after Libyan protesters came on street, he said “Syria is different and there will be no protest here because Syria is axis against Israel and whole country is united on this stand”. In my view what he forget at that point of time is that anti Israelism/Zionism/Americanism does not provide leash to dictators to rule the state as long as they wish, change is inevitable (how it comes and how it is executed is a matter of differentiation).

Coming to the Turkish policy shift since the advent of Arab spring, it may be surprising for many but what I think is that the stand Turkey took is highly calibrated one and with lot of calculation and deliberation and in my view is based on long term pragmatic regional policy. Keeping in mind that only Shiet countries/groups are supporting Al-Assad and Sunnites to opposition that has turned the Syrian conflict in to Shiet-Sunnite sectarian war in the region” infact” this has consolidated Turkish position in the regional geopolitics. Syrian strife provided Turkey a scheme to maneuver its role more openly in terms of regional domination. The Syrian conflict will further divide the region and will certainly pierce in to Iraq and Lebanon with further bloodshed the outcome of conflict will decide that who will lead the region Iran+ Shiet states/groups or Turkey with Sunnite sates.

Suffice to say that with all the calculations it seems that Al-Assad regime will certainly fall and it will weaken the Iranian role in the regional geopolitics and will definitely surrender the Palestinian issue to Sunnite states.

That's some valid interesting points.
But to just look at it in the prism of Sunni vs Shia, is a bit simplistic. First of all, Iran's narrative in this conflict has not been staunch support for Assad. If you listen to the foreign minister and such from Iran, the narrative is and have always been for the opposition and current government to stop fighting and engage in talks. There were even some reports earlier in the conflict, that Iran was considering parting from Assad.
Assad himself is not vital to Iran's role at all.
Syria as a nation state has common strategic interests with Iran. And yes, I am referring to the resistance axis, and occupied Syrian land. That is why Iran is not dependent on Assad.
The only way for the geopolitics to change, is if Syria is destroyed as a nation state in a sectarian war. If the rebels win that is.

I disagree with you that Turkey was pragmatic and made a rational calibrated move in this conflict.

 

[T-123456]

The FSA rodents are being pounded by the Syrian army, so the no fly zone is the only way the US, Turkey, GCC can achieve their objective. But not gonna happen. It will be vetoed by Russia and China.
Its very natural for Turkey to call for such a desperate move of a no fly zone, seeing as how its going horribly for the terrorists. Turkey is panicking after their massive foreign policy failure in Syria, which was to shelter terrorists in order to oust a neighbour's government. And when Assad and Syrian government wins the war (not if, when) Turkey will have a very bitter enemy in its southern border. Man what a mess Erdogan has dragged Turkey into. They should just cut their losses and accept that Assad Syrian government is here to stay. Turkey just keep making it worse for themselves lol

By the many reactions you get,you back up your claims of Assad winning.
What kind of a stand is that?
You should start seeing reality and give up Syria,there is no way you can beat Turkey in anything so chill relax and watch whats gonna happen.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Assad won't win anything. Start a war to prevent it? IMO it is possible. There had been many excuses (jet crisis, deaths of 5 Turkish civillians) for Turkish government to involve Turkey physically into this mess, but thanks to common sense of Turkish people who are aggainst risking Turkish lifes for a war that has nothing to do with us, it has held AKP back so far. If things go south for FSA, hence Turkish government, i see no reason for another mysterious shell not to fell in the middle of a Turkish city, resulting with many deaths.



I think that's due to endurance of Assad has exceeded the expectations. Hell, FSA started to shoot down SAA aircrafts on almost daily basis. So no, Assad certainly is not winning anything.

By the way, i'll watch the video later.

That is not legitimate pretext to go to war, at all. If anything, it was Turkey that was the aggressor with the jet-incident. It was the Turkish jet that breached Syrian airspace. What did you expect them to do?
And in regards about the deaths of those 5 civilians.
Well again, what did you expect?

When you are sheltering (at the border) and giving logistical support to a group that is taking up arms, engaging in terrorist activities and trying to oust a government, shelling will happen acrosd. So no, Turkey has no valid and legal reason to go to war with Syria.

By the way, start a war to prevent a war? I think something is a fundamental contradiction in that statement.

 

[Serpentine]

By the many reactions you get,you back up your claims of Assad winning.
What kind of a stand is that?
You should start seeing reality and give up Syria,there is no way you can beat Turkey in anything so chill relax and watch whats gonna happen.

That's one too rational piece of answer... not.

It's mixed with too much nationalism and nationalism, in extremist version, spoils rationality.

 

[ResurgentIran]

By the many reactions you get,you back up your claims of Assad winning.
What kind of a stand is that?
You should start seeing reality and give up Syria,there is no way you can beat Turkey in anything so chill relax and watch whats gonna happen.

Its too bad that this kind of irrationality is also entrenched in Erdogan foreign policy in Syria, which has gotten Turkey into this mess. Relax and have some sesame cake lol

 

[T-123456]

That's one too rational piece of answer... not.

It's mixed with too much nationalism and nationalism, in extremist version, spoils rationality.

You of all persons should first look at his post and then answer this way.
First claims something then takes it back and blames Turkey ?
You know his stands are anti Turkey,so if you dont see that then you get the same answer.

 

[TurAr]

That is not legitimate pretext to go to war, at all. If anything, it was Turkey that was the aggressor with the jet-incident. It was the Turkish jet that breached Syrian airspace. What did you expect them to do?
And in regards about the deaths of those 5 civilians.
Well again, what did you expect?

When you are sheltering and giving logistical support to a group that is trying to oust a government, shelling will happen across the border. So no, Turkey has no valid and legal reason to go to war with Syria.

By the way, start a war to prevent a war? I think something is a fundamental contradiction in that statement.

Apparently, you haven't understand my point. It doesn't matter whose fault they were, the only thing that matters is how it is being perceived by Turkish people. If Turkish people give permission, i assure you AKP would use it and it won't be a war exactly but one quick operation that will topple Assad in matter of weeks if not days.

 

[Farooq]

For the turkies to start gobbling at this point in time for a no-fly zone shows that the terrorists are losing

 

[T-123456]

Its too bad that this kind of irrationality is also entrenched in Erdogan foreign policy in Syria, which has gotten Turkey into this mess. Relax and have some sesame cake lol

You are funny,first blame us then ease it with a lol.
See,im not a fan of Erdogan but you said Turkey is in this mess.
What mess,all is going well in Syria for us.