Turkey and France clash over Libya air campaign

[Martian]

Turkey has launched a bitter attack on French president Nicolas Sarkozy's and France's leadership of the military campaign against Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, accusing the French of lacking a conscience in their conduct in the Libyan operations.

The vitriolic criticism, from both the prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and the president, Abdullah Gül followed attacks from the Turkish government earlier this week and signalled an orchestrated attempt by Ankara to wreck Sarkozy's plans to lead the air campaign against Gaddafi.

With France insisting that Nato should not be put in political charge of the UN-mandated air campaign, Turkey has come out emphatically behind sole Nato control of the operations.

The row came as France confirmed that one of its fighter jets had destroyed a Libyan air force plane, the first to breach the no-fly zone since it was imposed on 19 March. The Libyan G2/Galeb trainer aircraft was destroyed by an air-to-ground missile just after it landed at an air base near the rebel-held town of Misrata, a French military spokesman said.

The clash between Turkey and France over Libya is underpinned by acute frictions between Erdogan and Sarkozy, both impetuous and mercurial leaders who revel in the limelight, by fundamental disputes over Ankara's EU ambitions, and by economic interests in north Africa.

The confrontation is shaping up to be decisive in determining the outcome of the bitter infighting over who should inherit command of the Libyan air campaign from the Americans and could come to a head at a major conference in London next week of the parties involved.

Using incendiary language directed at France in a speech in Istanbul, Erdogan said: "I wish that those who only see oil, gold mines and underground treasures when they look in [Libya's] direction, would see the region through glasses of conscience from now on."

President Gül reinforced the Turkish view that France and others were being driven primarily by economic interests. "The aim [of the air campaign] is not the liberation of the Libyan people," he said. "There are hidden agendas and different interests."

Earlier this week, Claude Guéant, the French interior minister who was previously Sarkozy's chief adviser, outraged the Muslim world by stating that the French president was "leading a crusade" to stop Gaddafi massacring Libyans.

Erdogan denounced the use of the word crusade yesterday, blaming those, France chief among them, who are opposed to Turkey joining the EU.

Senior Nato officials are meeting in Brussels for the fourth day in a row to try to hammer out an agreement on who should assume command of the no-fly zone over Libya from the Americans who are determined to relinquish command within days.

Sarkozy has agreed to give Nato military planners operational command of the campaign, but refused to grant the alliance political and strategic control, insisting this should be vested in the broader "coalition of the willing" taking part.

Turkey has responded by blocking Nato planning operations for Libya while stressing that Nato should be given "sole command", senior Nato diplomats said.

Turkey, Nato's second biggest army after the US and its only Muslim member, appears bent on winning the argument. It is already taking part in Nato patrols in the Mediterranean to police an arms embargo on Libya. It wants to limit and shorten the air campaign and proscribe ground attacks on Libya by Nato aircraft. If Nato is given political command of the air effort, Turkey would be able to exercise a veto in a system run on consensus.

The US's top military officer in Europe, Admiral James Stavridis, Nato's supreme commander Europe, has gone to Ankara to try to mediate a deal.

The Turks are incensed at repeated snubs by Sarkozy. The French failed to invite Turkey to last Saturday's summit in Paris which presaged the air strikes. French fighters taking off from Corsica struck the first blows. The Turkish government accused Sarkozy of launching not only the no-fly zone, but his presidential re-election campaign.

While the dispute over Libya is substantive and political, it also appears highly personal, revealing the bad blood simmering between the French president and the Turkish prime minister.

Sarkozy went to Turkey last month for the first time in four years as president. But the visit was repeatedly delayed and then downgraded from a state presidential event. He stayed in Turkey for five hours.

"Relations between Turkey and France deserve more than this," complained Erdogan. "I will speak with frankness. We wish to host him as president of France. But he is coming as president of the G20, not as that of France."

While the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, is also opposed to Turkey joining the EU, she has voiced her objections moderately. Sarkozy has declared loudly that culturally Turkey does not belong in Europe, but in the Middle East.

France has blocked tranches of Ankara's EU negotiations on the grounds that it should not be seen as ever-fit for membership.

Turkey and France clash over Libya air campaign | World news | The Guardian

 

[farhan_9909]

turkey should show some power to these racist europian countries

its time for turkey to give them some light kickes

 

[ovarel]

Countries like Turkey,China,Russia have been too efficent in North Africa.France and Italy wanted to take over their "backyard" again.

They want NATO to be in control but under the coalitions oversight.I hope we demolish their plans.

 

[VelocuR]

Is it possible NATO membership would break up? I am not speaking of Turkey. It would be wise NATO become weak and nonfunctional with countries in disagreement or lack of consciences or lack of leaderships.


President Gül reinforced the Turkish view that France and others were being driven primarily by economic interests. "The aim [of the air campaign] is not the liberation of the Libyan people," he said. "There are hidden agendas and different interests."

 

[Vassnti]

President Gül stupidly replayed Gadaffi's propaganda in a political spat with France fine he hates Sarkozy, lots of people do but they refrain from making life dificult for every one else, politicians seem to be complete idiots no mater where they are from.

 

[Jigs]

President Gül stupidly replayed Gadaffi's propaganda in a political spat with France fine he hates Sarkozy, lots of people do but they refrain from making life dificult for every one else, politicians seem to be complete idiots no mater where they are from.

What can you expect from someone that married his 15 year old cousin. These people are going to get us kicked out of NATO if they keep this up. I don't like Sarkozy but there is a reason him and other states are starting to cut us out(though not inviting us to the paris conference certainly didn't help). Everytime something with NATO comes up we are the only country to object we did this same crap with Iran during our UNSC rotation. Having objections is one thing but trying to narrow and undermine these operations for political points is just sad.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Turkey should leave crusader forces adn join Muslim nation's alliance


We need a new coalition of Salah din - it would be great for Turkey and Pakistan to spear head things for such coalition

Nato fato , is old news , time to see things the way they are

We need to liberate world from opression called Democracy where richest class rules 95% of poor

 

[Pak_Sher]

Christian discrimination and destruction of muslim countires needs to be countered otherwise, they will destroy all the muslims.

 

[ARSENAL6]

What can you expect from someone that married his 15 year old cousin. These people are going to get us kicked out of NATO if they keep this up. I don't like Sarkozy but there is a reason him and other states are starting to cut us out(though not inviting us to the paris conference certainly didn't help). Everytime something with NATO comes up we are the only country to object we did this same crap with Iran during our UNSC rotation. Having objections is one thing but trying to narrow and undermine these operations for political points is just sad.

YES..................and when NATO decides to bomb Turkey back to the stone age it would be wise for Turkey NOT "to Object and to narrow and undermine these operations "

What can you expect from someone that married his 15 year old cousin..

...and thats your gripe, your hatred towards Muslim, Islam, Turkey and anyone accoisted with it - Thats just pathetically SAD.

... there is a reason him and other states are starting to cut us out(though not inviting us to the paris conference certainly didn't help). .

Because Sarkozy the French Muchkin, is a racists. and like most of his cabinates and their culture.
I mean come on :
Could we Find a reason for Hitler genocide of the Jews ?
Could we find an excuse of the 9/11 attackers ?
and so on....

... Everytime something with NATO comes up we are the only country to object we did this same crap with Iran during our UNSC rotation..

Proberly when that day happens, when the United States rounds up US citerzern with Turkish ancestors or anyone associted to Turkey in any way of form and lock them up in some kind of detention camps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some French ARe trying to hit rock bottom by acting like Islamaphobes. ALready some have catorgries Muslim into camps and segregate them into didvision when descibing them when such groups do not exist in islam ie Moderate Muslm ( what the hell is that ?)
Calling Palisteins as facists - the Irony

THeir culture have always embraced the decline in Islam. Try reading or reasearch on a French pastry called Croissant and see how it came about
Even its name gives you a clue. France has out-rightly banned the headscarf not just the Burker and as a hypocrite decides to help Muslim in Libiya ?
I think France has no interest in the people of Lybiya and its just a smoke screen just to cover its rel intention for the conflict in that region.

Someone needs to stand up to theses facsist pigs in Europe otherwise will have another right wing govt like we had back in WW2, and this time, it ain't the Jews that will go to the Oven it will be the Muslims. SO be warned and good on you Turkey

 

[nightcrawler]

when I read thread's article I though physical clashed...& I imagined F-16 pitted against Rafaels..so dumb I was

 

[NWO]

Human rights watch group has already claimed they are no mercenaries, Human Rights Watch: No Mercenaries in Libya « Red Ant Liberation Army News, and Russia has claimed there is no civilian bombing by Ghadafi.

 

[Vassnti]

YES..................and when NATO decides to bomb Turkey back to the stone age it would be wise for Turkey NOT "to Object and to narrow and undermine these operations "


...and thats your gripe, your hatred towards Muslim, Islam, Turkey and anyone accoisted with it - Thats just pathetically SAD.


Because Sarkozy the French Muchkin, is a racists. and like most of his cabinates and their culture.
I mean come on :
Could we Find a reason for Hitler genocide of the Jews ?
Could we find an excuse of the 9/11 attackers ?
and so on....






Proberly when that day happens, when the United States rounds up US citerzern with Turkish ancestors or anyone associted to Turkey in any way of form and lock them up in some kind of detention camps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some French ARe trying to hit rock bottom by acting like Islamaphobes. ALready some have catorgries Muslim into camps and segregate them into didvision when descibing them when such groups do not exist in islam ie Moderate Muslm ( what the hell is that ?)
Calling Palisteins as facists - the Irony

THeir culture have always embraced the decline in Islam. Try reading or reasearch on a French pastry called Croissant and see how it came about
Even its name gives you a clue. France has out-rightly banned the headscarf not just the Burker and as a hypocrite decides to help Muslim in Libiya ?
I think France has no interest in the people of Lybiya and its just a smoke screen just to cover its rel intention for the conflict in that region.

Someone needs to stand up to theses facsist pigs in Europe otherwise will have another right wing govt like we had back in WW2, and this time, it ain't the Jews that will go to the Oven it will be the Muslims. SO be warned and good on you Turkey

Forget your meds? The croissant is a pastry based on the Austrian Kipferl, the stories that is was designed to celebrate the defete of the turks are garbage, the French didnt invent it they nicked it.

The french are putting Muslims into camps where name one Franco muslim concentration camp?

They baned the burka yup and every thing else

The law does not mention any particular symbol, and thus ban all Christian (veil, signs), Muslim (veil, signs), and other minor religions' signs

not anti muslim its anti religion.

The last bit is just suposition, you think the French some how fooled all the Arab countries, Nato and half of Lybia in some underhanded scheme that only you worked out but every one else in the world missed, yea right.

 

[NWO]

They baned the burka yup and every thing else not anti muslim its anti religion.

Perhaps it can be interpreted that way, but it states only large symbols are banned. I'm sure the judges won't consider Christian crosses on necklaces to fall in that category.

 

[Vassnti]

Human rights watch group has already claimed they are no mercenaries, Human Rights Watch: No Mercenaries in Libya « Red Ant Liberation Army News, and Russia has claimed there is no civilian bombing by Ghadafi.

The claims are hard to pin down but persistent. Ali al-Essawi, the Libyan ambassador to India, who resigned in the wake of the crackdown, told Reuters on Tuesday: "They are from Africa, and speak French and other languages."

He said their presence had prompted some army troops to switch sides to the opposition. "They are Libyans and they cannot see foreigners killing Libyans so they moved beside the people."

In a separate interview, Essawi told al-Jazeera: "People say they are black Africans and they don't speak Arabic. They are doing terrible things, going to houses and killing women and children."

Witness accounts seem to bear out the claims. One resident of Tripoli was quoted by Reuters: "Gaddafi obviously does not have any limits. We knew he was crazy, but it's still a terrible shock to see him turning mercenaries on his own people and just mowing down unarmed demonstrators."

Saddam, a 21-year-old university student in Bayda, claimed mercenaries had killed 150 people in two days. "The police opened fire at us," he said. "My friend Khaled was the first martyr to fall and seven others died with him.

"The next day, we were shocked to see mercenaries from Chad, Tunisia, Morocco speaking French attacking us ... We captured some of the mercenaries and they said they were given orders by Gaddafi to eliminate the protesters."

Has Gaddafi unleashed a mercenary force on Libya? | World news | The Guardian

There are claims that some of those cracking down on protesters are foreign mercenaries [Al Jazeera]

Libya forces 'open fire' at funeral - Africa - Al Jazeera English

A former Libyan pilot, called aljazeera tv from Germany, saying that these are old Mirage planes, which are too old to be used against enemy forces. The Gaddafi regime has kept them to be used against Libyans when they rise up. He also added that there were African pilots, training with him, and who could be used in attacking the Libyan people.

Two Libyan air force French-made Mirage jet planes landed today in Malta, a small state island off the Tripoli coast. The pilots announced that they refused to attack the Libyan people preferring to leave the country than killing their people for the benefit of the dictator.

Two more Libyan military planes landed in a Bani Ghazi airport, a city free of the Gaddafi control, after the Libyan pilots refused to attack their people.

There were reports coming to Arab TV stations about more African mercenaries arriving at the Mou'aitibiya in Tripoli, as reinforcement to the Dictatorial forces.

Many Libyan ambassadors and officials abroad, including a cabinet member visiting the US, announced their resignation and joined their people in the revolution to change the despotic Gaddafi regime.

Libyan Revolution Moving to the Climax Stage, the Dictator Uses African Mercenaries and Air Strikes Against Tripoli, February 21, 2011

 

[Saithan]

What can you expect from someone that married his 15 year old cousin. These people are going to get us kicked out of NATO if they keep this up. I don't like Sarkozy but there is a reason him and other states are starting to cut us out(though not inviting us to the paris conference certainly didn't help). Everytime something with NATO comes up we are the only country to object we did this same crap with Iran during our UNSC rotation. Having objections is one thing but trying to narrow and undermine these operations for political points is just sad.

Wow... Is the little kemalist afraid to be kicked out of the club hmm... You got something on your nose Jigs, something brownish.

NATO has only legitimacy as long as it acts rational and with concensus, if you start wars over night and then ask NATO to follow up like a dog, what will happen to that legitimacy, it'll disappear and countries will be more prone to start wars on a whim. You could say that with the unrest in ME NATO should have been on alert and anticipated that it may have been necessary to act in countries like Libya, but they were not.

I don't find your attack on our country's President productive and your arguments for why he's "useless" just shows how frustrated you are. However you should look into his CV before throwing dirt. He's a lot more qualified that any of the people MHP and CHP can come up with.

Do you even know how much was plundered from Iraq, the national treasure, and the kurdish/iraqi minister who had stockpiled Saddams art somewhere, luckily he got caught before he could export the stuff. That is reality my friend, war is ugly, and armed rebellion WILL be very ugly for those who support and oppose Gaddafi.

Tell me what guarentee do you have that everything will be peaceful once it's settled. Ex-military officers from Gaddafis army are among rebels, what guarentee do you have they'll lay down arms once Gaddafi has been defeated ? What about the opposition, will they be able to return to peaceful existence or will they fear attack from the rebels ?

Finally, it's not wrong to raise your voice and let your opinion be heard, however if you shut your mouth and let the wrongdoings continue, then you're no better than the people who kept quiet during WW2 and let atrocities continue.