Truth/Facts About Pakistani Claim Over Siachen Glacier

[Capt.Popeye]

Actually, the primary references available are sufficiently clear.

That may well be so, however since i have not delved too much into it; I cannot say much on that.
Maybe you can venture to do so?

However "real-politik" also tells me that people will find it very expedient to dis-regard them......

 

[Contrarian]

doesn't U.S wants a strong India, what better way to do it, & in that way the Indian Army will have only "one" front & a very special "one" @ that to concentrate on & that my friend is something you Americans would love to have it, now don't you eh'

US wants a 'pliant' India, not a strong India.

They want an India that is strong enough to act against Chinese interests but weak enough that US has the ability to reduce India's effectiveness at will by buffing up Pakistan.

For the US, India is to counter China, Pakistan is to counter India if India gets too big for its shoes(read goes against US interests).

There are no friends or enemies in geopolitics, there are only interests. If there is one thing our polity and bureaucrats have learnt, it is this. We have no false illusions of any claims of 'ally'. We play the game almost as well as them, if I do say so myself.

India wants a strong India, USA only wants an India that can help US national interests. There is a difference between the two, Sir.

Huge difference. And GoI - of all political shades - understands this.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

I have no doubt that GoI would jump at this solution but with the rider that Siachen remains a non militarized region. It is IA's understanding that in the future with better technological advances, it could be used to connect China and Pakistan for a pincer movement against India in J&K.

The PA would never agree to it though, it would be everything they have worked against...everything they have invested against.

you mean on the lines of the Suez Canal formula , that's fine with me , I don't see anything wrong with that

 

[Capt.Popeye]

you mean on the lines Suez Canal formula , that's fine with me , I don't see anything wrong with that


abbey to banja nah counterweight tujhe problem kya hai @ least that way we will finally have democracy & get rid of establishment thingy
trust me yaar zindagi tang karke rakha hai

The underlined part takes me back to the 'end-game' just when the fall of Dhaka was imminent. There was a substantial part of the both the Indian Political and Military Estt. then which wanted India to then "go-for-broke" in the West. But two personalities (notably) resisted that idea and prevailed; Indira Gandhi and Sardar Swaran Singh the then Foreign Minister. While Swaran Singh was sanguine that USSR's "blank-cheque vetos" in the UNSC would then likely run out; IG had a little different reason. She felt that the "Establishment thingy" that you speak of had been sufficiently emasculated and there was a need to give a chance to Democracy to come to the fore again across the border. Which consideration weighed in to her negotiations with Bhutto at Shimla. Later she faced strident criticism within part of the Indian Estt for conceding too much to Bhutto; while she held all the Aces (notably 93,000 POWs).
However, her position was so unassailable then that she weathered all that. But that needs some exposition here in context of your quoted post and an earlier one.
Of course, Bhutto with all his qualities was too myopic to be called a visionary; which eventually cost him his life while costing his country along the way.

India wants a strong India, USA only wants an India that can help US national interests. There is a difference between the two, Sir.

Absolutely.....
Many Years ago we woke upto the realisation that while "Enmity with USA could be dangerous, Friendship with USA could be even more hazardous".
That helped us to decide what kind of Friendship we would allow with them.
Non-Alignment was not just an airy-fairy, woolly-headed idea!

 

[VCheng]

That may well be so, however since i have not delved too much into it; I cannot say much on that.
Maybe you can venture to do so?

However "real-politik" also tells me that people will find it very expedient to dis-regard them......

Do you want me perma-banned here?

You are empirically wrong my friend.
India has already achieved a sustained growth rate of over 7% without resolving any issue with Pakistan.

The same only need be achieved again...though since its Modi, we are keen on having a decade of 8% plus sustained growth.

Let's see whether Modi can actually deliver.

 

[VCheng]

Absolutely.....
Many Years ago we woke upto the realisation that while "Enmity with USA could be dangerous, Friendship with USA could be even more hazardous".
That helped us to decide what kind of Friendship we would allow with them.
Non-Alignment was not just an airy-fairy, woolly-headed idea!

There are no friends or enemies in international geopolitics, only alignments or mis-alignments of national interests.

Huge difference. And GoI - of all political shades - understands this.

There is no doubt that the Indian political scene is much more evolved than the primitive jungle that exists in Pakistan.

 

[Chak Bamu]

This thread better not turn into another Modi thread.

@Capt.Popeye , trolling??????

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Do you want me perma-banned here?



Let's see whether Modi can actually deliver.

No, not at all.
But do remember, a Power-Point can always be used to rebut anything.

There is nothing that Modi can do. He is not a statesman, at least he has not demonstrated any of that yet.
Nor is there any other statesman in the region to be seen yet. So both countries will continue to wallow in a quagmire.

There are no friends or enemies in international geopolitics, only alignments or mis-alignments of national interests.



There is no doubt that the Indian political scene is much more evolved than the primitive jungle that exists in Pakistan.

Objectively speaking; that has happened solely because Democracy (in whatever skewed form) has been allowed to take root in India. IMO; that is the singularly great achievement in 6 decades.
If that had been allowed to happen in Pakistan; Pakistan would have enjoyed a far greater status in the International Polity. Personally, I feel surprised and disappointed that did not happen. More surprising and disappointing is the fact that the causative factors were internal and right at the highest echelons.
There is an old Croat proverb: "a fish always rots from the head". That is not without meaning.

 

[VCheng]

Objectively speaking; that has happened solely because Democracy (in whatever skewed form) has been allowed to take root in India. IMO; that is the singularly great achievement in 6 decades.
If that had been allowed to happen in Pakistan; Pakistan would have enjoyed a far greater status in the International Polity. Personally, I feel surprised and disappointed that did not happen. More surprising and disappointing is the fact that the causative factors were internal and right at the highest echelons.
There is an old Croat proverb: "a fish always rots from the head". That is not without meaning.

Pakistan now has painted itself into the proverbial corner with its military firmly in control. There will be no further evolution possible into a modern state that delivers for its citizens unless this basic error is rectified.

 

[Hellfire]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Ah .. now I recall you..

We have interacted back in 2011. I deleted majority of my posts, twice while I left the forum

I concede that we took glacier, much to the chagrin of the members here, on Indian side and on Pakistani side, much to chagrin of loss of face when they realise that Pakistan is not even on Siachen and they get lies only.

Thanks for the posts and directions.

You have summed it up very nicely.

@PaklovesTurkiye

Go through this thread. You may still have hope after all

I will tag you to your fellow Pakistani member ... @Syed.Ali.Haider (I request you to answer @PaklovesTurkiye 's queries, if any at all, although member tends to be shy)

He is despised by many Pakistanis ... I recall him now as VCheng.

@Soumitra
@Thomas M @Stephen Cohen

Suggest go through this thread. Understand the Siachen Issue and also the facts as they stand

Tag me .. or now I will say @Syed.Ali.Haider to clarify anything here. Don't troll. If you want to know facts and not be carried by rhetoric, go through this.

We captured Siachen, was not under us by a long shot...! I concede that always on this forum, you might have read it somewhere!

Tag all you can think of.

 

[VCheng]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Ah .. now I recall you..

We have interacted back in 2011. I deleted majority of my posts, twice while I left the forum

I concede that we took glacier, much to the chagrin of the members here, on Indian side and on Pakistani side, much to chagrin of loss of face when they realise that Pakistan is not even on Siachen and they get lies only.

Thanks for the posts and directions.

You have summed it up very nicely.

@PaklovesTurkiye

Go through this thread. You may still have hope after all

I will tag you to your fellow Pakistani member ... @Syed.Ali.Haider (I request you to answer @PaklovesTurkiye 's queries, if any at all, although member tends to be shy)

He is despised by many Pakistanis ... I recall him now as VCheng.

Sir, since 2011, I have had the "good" sense beaten into me to keep quiet. I ain't sayin' nuttin' anymore!

 

[Hellfire]

Sir, since 2011, I have had the "good" sense beaten into me to keep quiet. I ain't sayin' nuttin' anymore!

I have marked people who are reasonable albeit patriotic. And since you know this thing please try and answer the queries to the best you can, if any.

If you feel like it, may I request you to tag me? I will take the hit, no issues, but sense has to prevail and whatever we may try, a bit by bit, we should.

@jbgt90 for reference to straighten facts of anybody

@salarsikander interesting read

@ito @illusion8 @Omega007

Nicely summed up situation .... for reference.