Trump: Pakistan is a safe haven for terrorists

[N.Siddiqui]

Why you have "Pashtuns" in brackets for Afghan fighters in the quote of Hamid Gul?. It is said about all citizens of Afghanistan.

To make it more clear, most of the Taliban fighters are Pashtuns and they are dead against the US presence, staunch Islamist and fiercest of fighters.

Others Afghans splinter groups like Tajiks, northern alliance of Rasheed Dostum, are against the Talibans and dead against Pakistan, also kind of secular or not staunch anti imperialist.

Britishers never used the term "Graveyard of empires" for Afghanistan or tribal areas. Its a very modern term, two decades old , and is coined by Americans after collapse of Soviet Union.

These are the reasons, old and tested, even if the term coined anew. Yes Britishers were at the receiving end...could not have coined the term 'graveyards of the empires' you are right here....but what I quoted about calling Indians servile and docile was true...

• Alexander the Great circa 330 BC conquered Persia in 6 months and then spent nearly 3 years attempting to subdue Afghanistan. The losses incurred and the resistance faced were some of the contributors to the eventual fall of his empire following his death
• The British had three Anglo-Afghan wars spanning the 19th and early 20th centuries. The end result of these struggles were heavy British losses as well as the end of British military influence in Afghanistan
• The Soviet Union attempted to capture Afghanistan in it's sphere of influence by spreading socialism there. While it initially gained traction, religious and tribal forces within Afghanistan resisted and this led to the Soviet-Afghan War. With help from the CIA and Arab/Muslim fighters from other regions, the "Mujahideen" succeeded in drawing the USSR into a protracted struggle that many believe led to the end of the Soviet Union. (the pebble that cracked the Soviet Empire)
• It can be argued that the US conflict in Afghanistan which began in 2001 and continues to this day is another example of technological and military power being unable to subdue the tribal forces of Afghanistan

Thus, Afghanistan has gained the moniker "Graveyard of Empires" for causing superpowers to overestimate their odds of victory and overextend themselves in attempting to conquer it.

 

[Mian Babban]

do yu know the meaning of Taliban ? and bytheway if America or India Attack us We can Be Taliban For them.

Talib means a madrassa student, and the term is also used for particular brand of armed fanatics involved in terrorist activities in Afghanistan as well as in Pakistan. They have brainwashed, are brainwashing gullible young boys to prepare them for suicide bombings, like Hasan Bin Saba used to do.

Why we (Pashtuns) have to be Taliban for Indian or American invaders?. Why not imagining Punjabis, Balochs and Sindhis taking this role?

 

[TMA]

Hey bro - welcome. Your like me. I am not from any of those hell holes. I don't have any bones to pick. I am British. Ask Indians how neutral I am.

LOL.

Bingo. In diplomatic terms this was "finger pointing" at US to the effect that "Don't get funny ideas". This ain't no I-ran.

A big thanks to our Chinese chums.

@Jlaw @Chinese-Dragon @Chinese Bamboo @Beast @Adam wang And all others from the peoples republic. Thank you our athiest friends. Proof that a good athiest is better then a bad Muslim. Who needs ummah when we have China?

It seems China is more ummah than Ummah.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

I don't think you get my point. I am extremely happy countries are investing in Pakistan - be it USA or China. More investment means more jobs and more jobs means less jehadis.

My point was to the person who said Pakistan can make burgers even if McDonalds pulls out or some such insinuation.

I replied to your assumption that US has very little or no business interests in Pakistan...which is not true.

US external policies works with the help of lobbies, like Jew, or say Indian lobby. And the corporate lobby is the most powerful, they won't like to wrap up their businesses from Pakistan. Golden goose for them...

Trump is a businessman as well. Check how is he with is son is getting close to China...he has talked many time about the trillion dollar spent in Iraq, wasted and gone, and about close to a trillion dollar spent in Afghan war...read or listen his speeches.


Why is it that no sanctions was imposed on travelers from Pakistan, when slapped on many countries few months earlier. This carrot and stick, good cop bad cop policy of US will continue.

Moving away from Pakistan mean Pakistan getting cozy to Russia, more close to China...and Iran too, more problems for US/NATO forces in Afghan conundrum, many major setbacks...so this policy of USA will continue...

 

[Mian Babban]

To make it more clear, most of the Taliban fighters are Pashtuns and they are dead against the US presence, staunch Islamist and fiercest of fighters.

Uzbeks are perhaps fiercest and a whole lot of them have joined Taliban ranks these days.

• [*]The British had three Anglo-Afghan wars spanning the 19th and early 20th centuries. The end result of these struggles were heavy British losses as well as the end of British military influence in Afghanistan

Yet British empire did not collapse after any of the three Anglo-Afghan Wars. In fact they always dictated the terms and forced Afghanistan to cede vast territories to them. British also controlled foreign affairs of Afghanistan for four decades and also drew the borders for them along Russia.

Thus, Afghanistan has gained the moniker "Graveyard of Empires" for causing superpowers to overestimate their odds of victory and overextend themselves in attempting to conquer it.

The only moniker that Afghanistan (Pakhtunkhwa, Roh, or land of Afghans/Pashtuns, not the modern Afghanistan state) deserve is "Yaghistan" meaning the land of rebels or unruly. It is the term probably coined by British and has been mentioned in 19th century sources. Graveyard of empires does not make any sense. The modern Afghanistan state (Pashtun bit as well as non-Pashtun bit) is rather birthplace of empires and its cities have been capitals of very large empires of various roots, many of them being of foreign roots for example Herat was capital of Tumurid empire under Shah Rukh and Ghazni was capital of Ghaznavid empire of Turks who were not indigenous.

 

[PakSword]

Saudi will prefer US, over Pak in many things.. won't finger when it comes to US interest... Get back to reality..

It is very complicated. You won't understand ever. There are many factors in play here and I don't want to mention all of them here.

Live in your own reality.

 

[The Sandman]

It's high time all political parties sit together keep all of their self interests aside for a moment and appoint intelligent, cunning, people with presence of mind but most importantly patriotic to form our foreign policy than we need to create lobbies in US & EU their jobs would be to drill the statistics of how many people and money we lost in this "WOT" down the throats of people this is the only way to make the whole world realize how much we've lost in past 17 years. Their 2nd job should be to work aggressively to promote a positive image of Pakistan spread a soft image of Pakistan.

I would like to say a BIG THANK YOU to our brothers who like always came forward for us.

and i would like to advise my fellow country men to pls ignore the trolls it's an EID day for them and you're only giving them eidi by replying to them so kindly don't give them any attention but do reply to those who want serious discussion.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

To make it more clear, most of the Taliban fighters are Pashtuns and they are dead against the US presence, staunch Islamist and fiercest of fighters.

Others Afghans splinter groups like Tajiks, northern alliance of Rasheed Dostum, are against the Talibans and dead against Pakistan, also kind of secular or not staunch anti imperialist.



These are the reasons, old and tested, even if the term coined anew. Yes Britishers were at the receiving end...could not have coined the term 'graveyards of the empires' you are right here....but what I quoted about calling Indians servile and docile was true...

• Alexander the Great circa 330 BC conquered Persia in 6 months and then spent nearly 3 years attempting to subdue Afghanistan. The losses incurred and the resistance faced were some of the contributors to the eventual fall of his empire following his death
• The British had three Anglo-Afghan wars spanning the 19th and early 20th centuries. The end result of these struggles were heavy British losses as well as the end of British military influence in Afghanistan
• The Soviet Union attempted to capture Afghanistan in it's sphere of influence by spreading socialism there. While it initially gained traction, religious and tribal forces within Afghanistan resisted and this led to the Soviet-Afghan War. With help from the CIA and Arab/Muslim fighters from other regions, the "Mujahideen" succeeded in drawing the USSR into a protracted struggle that many believe led to the end of the Soviet Union. (the pebble that cracked the Soviet Empire)
• It can be argued that the US conflict in Afghanistan which began in 2001 and continues to this day is another example of technological and military power being unable to subdue the tribal forces of Afghanistan

Thus, Afghanistan has gained the moniker "Graveyard of Empires" for causing superpowers to overestimate their odds of victory and overextend themselves in attempting to conquer it.

Fools dare where angels fear....
The road to hell is paved with good intentions....
The folks at the top aren't at the same level of security as those at the bottom....
Hardly any folks take lessons from history - this is the biggest lesson from history.....
"We were fighting against GOD", Winston Churchill upon the debacle at the Gallipoli (Chanakkale) War......

 

[danger007]

It is very complicated. You won't understand ever. There are many factors in play here and I don't want to mention all of them here.

Live in your own reality.

Your views evolve around religion.. but I'm not, complicated in what sense?

Complicated- yes, there are factions within the Muslim world... Saudi- US relation of the US influence in Saudi is beyond your reach.. they won't go against US, probably will remain silent ..

 

[Glass]

lol i dont think pakistan should fear anything. Pakistan would destroy the US in less 3 days

 

[N.Siddiqui]

"We were fighting against GOD", Winston Churchill upon the debacle at the Gallipoli (Chanakkale) War......

Seems true for US in Afghanistan, they are fighting against God, God selected men, the Mujahideens of yester years, turned Talibans of today, called terrorists of/in modern world.

And they are fighting against the mightiest, the largest imperialistic war machines, the largest military industrial complexes of the World....and giving them a run for their money, winning the Guerrilla warfare, winning the hearts and minds of a large section of Afghan people, without which they could have ended the war.

So unlike the US perception, it is the local Afghans in large numbers who supports the home grown Afghan Talibans...and not Pakistan.

Pakistan is merely a scapegoat...

 

[MultaniGuy]

Seems true for US in Afghanistan, they are fighting against God, God selected men, the Mujahideens of yester years, turned Talibans of today, called terrorists of/in modern world.

And they are fighting against the mightiest, the largest imperialistic war machines, the largest military industrial complexes of the World....and giving them a run for their money, winning the Guerrilla warfare, winning the hearts and minds of a large section of Afghan people, without which they could have ended the war.

So unlike the US perception, it is the local Afghans in large numbers who supports the home grown Afghan Talibans...and not Pakistan.

Pakistan is merely a scapegoat...

Ofcourse Pakistan is just a scapegoat.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Trump will become biggest of the three American failures in Afghanistan. Being tough on Pakistan will bring more harm than good to US interests in Afghanistan specially when US is already licking Indian a** to an unprecedented height.

Already the US commentators are stating that these policies are nothing new and have proved to be the recipe for failure!!!! Almost none is optimistic!!! And, they are openly saying that it's due to the personal agenda of a "trio of generals"!!!! The last time such a trio of generals emerged was that of "Talat. Jemal and Enver Pashas", who did a tremendous job to destroy six centuries old the Ottoman Empire in six years (13m sq km to 800K sq km)!!!!!! History never fails to repeat/resonate itself!!!!!!

 

[PakSword]

Your views evolve around religion.. but I'm not, complicated in what sense?

Complicated- yes, there are factions within the Muslim world... Saudi- US relation of the US influence in Saudi is beyond your reach.. they won't go against US, probably will remain silent ..

They may not go against US, but they will also not act on US demands against Pakistan, just as what they ignored when Pakistan tested its nuclear bomb.

Man, you guys will not understand. There is a reason Saudi forces took part on Pakistan day celebrations. You will again see them next year.

Anyway, there will be no economic sanctions. Military sanctions? Pakistan has already diversified its supplier base. The most US can do, is to send drones to bomb border areas, just like they were doing some years back (with Pakistan's permission). This time they will do it without permission. That's it.

What Trump has openly said today, common Pakistanis welcome. It is an opportunity for us to get out of this so called alliance. At least I am happy, and I know many other people who are too happy today.

 

[The Sandman]

Anyway, there will be no economic sanctions.

I too don't think they will do that economic sanctions on a democratic country? and that too when we've done nothing wrong like testing nukes in 90's.