Trump Orders US companies out of China

[Foxtrot Delta]

India Right Now Is An Economic Failure

Oh and Why India Why Not Pakistan??????

They move companies into markets. Only market that can be alternative to chinese market is indian market.

1 billion plus people in both markets
Very rich people in both markets
Cheap labor in both markets
Very rich governments in both markets
Very high growth investment returns
Very secure way of investments
Low profile
Friendly rules for investors (not true for china anymore cuz of trade war)


Even 7 pakistanz cant compete with that.

 

[Samlee]

They move companies into markets. Only market that can be alternative to chinese market is indian market.

1 billion plus people in both markets
Very rich people in both markets
Cheap labor in both markets
Very rich governments in both markets
Very high growth investment returns
Very secure way of investments
Low profile
Friendly rules for investors (not true for china anymore cuz of trade war)


Even 7 pakistanz cant compete with that.

India Is Notorious For Red Tape
Right Now Industries Are Shutting Down and People Are Losing Their Jobs
The Recent Spate of Bankruptcies Has Shown Scared Away Investors
Infrastructure Is Actually Very Poor
Modi's Policies Have Actually Destroyed Businesses
And Most Of All USA and India Are Engaged In A Low Profile Trade War

Pakistan Has The Duty Free Market Access Plus CPEC Financed Infrastructure Also Regulations Have Been Massively Downsized Under PM Khan.Also Pakistan Has GSP Duty Free Access on 3500+ Products To US Markets

If The Industries Moving Away From China Thought What You Think They Would Have Moved To India And Not To
Vietnam Which Has None Of The Above You Mentioned.

These Industries Were Not Producing For Domestic Market in China But For Export To USA

 

[ARMalik]

This is all a drama played by Mr Trump. US companies leaving China has zero impact on China. In fact it has more impact on the US since the US companies loose Chinese customers and hence profits. There are two fundamentals which a lot of people don't understand.

1- China's export oriented Economy with reliance of exports to the West , and with reliance on "Cheap Labor" actually started changing in 2008 when China began to create "Internal economic" of "Internal Consumers". Chinese people are now the customers and they are 1.5 Billion Customer! The wages in China have grown dramatically which reflects on the success of new Economic model of China.

2- The trade war is in fact a "Technology War" due to a very simple reason - China has surpassed the US in 5G tech, and other disruptive technologies.

So it DOES NOT matter how many Tariffs US put on China, it is not going to have any impact. The ONLY way US can suppress China is via the CONTROL OF ENERGY SOURCES. I have said it plenty of times, Energy is the Achilles heel of China.

 

[Yaseen1]

This is all a drama played by Mr Trump. US companies leaving China has zero impact on China. In fact it has more impact on the US since the US companies loose Chinese customers and hence profits. There are two fundamentals which a lot of people don't understand.

1- China's export oriented Economy with reliance of exports to the West , and with reliance on "Cheap Labor" actually started changing in 2008 when China began to create "Internal economic" of "Internal Consumers". Chinese people are now the customers and they are 1.5 Billion Customer! The wages in China have grown dramatically which reflects on the success of new Economic model of China.

2- The trade war is in fact a "Technology War" due to a very simple reason - China has surpassed the US in 5G tech, and other disruptive technologies.

So it DOES NOT matter how many Tariffs US put on China, it is not going to have any impact. The ONLY way US can suppress China is via the CONTROL OF ENERGY SOURCES. I have said it plenty of times, Energy is the Achilles heel of China.

Russia can help china to fulfill energy needs as they have oil and gas reserves

India Is Notorious For Red Tape
Right Now Industries Are Shutting Down and People Are Losing Their Jobs
The Recent Spate of Bankruptcies Has Shown Scared Away Investors
Infrastructure Is Actually Very Poor
Modi's Policies Have Actually Destroyed Businesses
And Most Of All USA and India Are Engaged In A Low Profile Trade War

Pakistan Has The Duty Free Market Access Plus CPEC Financed Infrastructure Also Regulations Have Been Massively Downsized Under PM Khan.Also Pakistan Has GSP Duty Free Access on 3500+ Products To US Markets

If The Industries Moving Away From China Thought What You Think They Would Have Moved To India And Not To
Vietnam Which Has None Of The Above You Mentioned.

These Industries Were Not Producing For Domestic Market in China But For Export To USA

u.s economy is controlled by israel lobby and they consider Pakistan as enemy and are more inclined towards india so it is difficult for us to attract u.s companies,we should focus on european and gcc investment for industrial setup

 

[Crusher]

People who dont learn from their history havent learnt anything at all...

And the people who perpetually live in the sorrows of their sufferings of the "Past" are guaranteed to be the biggest losers of the the "Present". What you plan in "present" is what matters in your life the most for both "present" and "future". Past is past, you cannot change anything that has happened in the past but you CAN always change what is going on in your life at present and particularly future. Prosperous Life cannot be sustained both in present as well as future if one refuses to come out of the clutches of the "griefs" and "sufferings" of the past.

I fully support Vietnamese wanting to improve their present and future with the help of investment of US companies. China also welcomes all kinds of investment coming from companies belonging to Japan and Britain even though China has suffered great humiliation, sufferings and loss of lives caused to them by both Japan and Britain in the past.

All of these will go into india for sure.

But usa will loose alot of business

Hardly any serious US company will go to that filthy land of india.

 

[Kabira]

This is all a drama played by Mr Trump. US companies leaving China has zero impact on China. In fact it has more impact on the US since the US companies loose Chinese customers and hence profits. There are two fundamentals which a lot of people don't understand.

1- China's export oriented Economy with reliance of exports to the West , and with reliance on "Cheap Labor" actually started changing in 2008 when China began to create "Internal economic" of "Internal Consumers". Chinese people are now the customers and they are 1.5 Billion Customer! The wages in China have grown dramatically which reflects on the success of new Economic model of China.

2- The trade war is in fact a "Technology War" due to a very simple reason - China has surpassed the US in 5G tech, and other disruptive technologies.

So it DOES NOT matter how many Tariffs US put on China, it is not going to have any impact. The ONLY way US can suppress China is via the CONTROL OF ENERGY SOURCES. I have said it plenty of times, Energy is the Achilles heel of China.

In that case China shouldn't worry about US companies pulling out if China has surpassed US in tech. Which it hasn't btw. China is still dependent on western tech.

 

[Crusher]

They move companies into markets. Only market that can be alternative to chinese market is indian market.

1 billion plus people in both markets
Very rich people in both markets
Cheap labor in both markets

Nice joke India being "rich people market", do you even know what the bloody per capita income of your beloved india is just 1700 $s and you are calling it "market of rich people", the fact of the matter is that POS called indians are too poor to buy Western products on large scale in order to sustain the large salaries of the work force (western engineers, developers, skilled workers) of the western countries. Malaysia and Indonesia are far better alternatives for US companies to move there as the per capita income of Malaysia and Indonesia are 11400 $ and 4200 $ respectively.

However Vietnam despite its per capita income of 2700 $ still remains the first place of choice for US companies trying to move their production out of China as Vietnam is right next to China, Vietnam also have good technical/skilled work force available for these US companies which is also one of the factors taken into account while US companies try to move their production out of China.

 

[8888888888888]

Didnt the US bomb the sh$t out of Vietnam? Dont your citizens still find explosives in the fields? Have you no shame?

He is a S Vietnamese exile.

 

[Crusher]

In that case China shouldn't worry about US companies pulling out if China has surpassed US in tech. Which it hasn't btw. China is still dependent on western tech.

The main reason for the present trade war between US and China is that previous US presidents in the past couple of decades were lenient towards China and their various policies to "force" American/Western companies to transfer the "technology" (usually these are company secrets) in case they wanted to manufacture in China and wanted to access chinese consumer markets. Chinese even started "stealing" the tech secrets of the advanced US semiconductor companies through cyber attacks of western companies' websites and databases, this process just got too much accelerated in the last 10 years or so after 2008 financial crisis in the US after which the US companies became reckless to reduce their production costs by transferring their production lines to China often accepting the "transfer" of technology demand of Chinese government. Then when "Xi jinping" came into power he announced that China will move from being just a cheap labour economy to the one producing "high tech semiconductor technologies" inside china, I think this was announced in 2014 or so, this just raised the "alarm" among the US think tanks that China has accumulated/stolen "enough" high tech "secrets/processes/technologies" that it now is ready to compete the original US high tech companies. That is when "counter China" policy started shaping up in the US, I think even Obama also had "blocked" many Chinese moves of take over of the hightech companies belonging to US or US allies like Britain or sometime even German. I personally know from 2016 news articles when Obama blocked the Chinese attempt of take over of a high tech German semiconductor company called Aixtron,
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ron-bid-after-obama-blocks-deal-idUSKBN13X16H

So the basic work against denying China any kind of western high tech technologies started even before Trump came into power. Trump however has brought the "unbearable trade deficit" that China has progressively achieved against the US in the last decade or so, however the "protection of US/western" high tech technologies from China through coercion of US companies located in China or by cyber attack attempts originating from China still remain one of the most important issues during negotiations between China and US to reach a new trade deal. Also US under Trump is demanding China to "fundamentally" change its economic policies with regards to how it "imposes various conditions of collaborating with a chinese partner and tech transfer" for any US or Western companies that wants to invest in China. So it is a complex issue and China is "no saint" in the this issue as it is made by gullible members on this forum. I have been tracking these economic and "burning trade issues" for years now, so I have a good idea why this "trade war" is happening, china just doesn't want to be a cheap labour force for foreign companies to make "shoes", "toys", "plastic utensils" etc. anymore, it wants to emerge as a "major player" in hightech semiconductor technologies/products, this is also the reason why "Huawei" is under attack from the US and why China is hell bent to "protect" a "private company" on the paper, but I doubt it is "actually" a private company, it is just a proxy of Chinese state and I think they invested very heavily in this "high tech company" to emerge as a major player in production of high tech products/technologies.

 

[B.K.N]

Nice joke India being "rich people market", do you even know what the bloody per capita income of your beloved india is just 1700 $s and you are calling it "market of rich people",

Indian population is 1.2 there per capital income is lower but in such a large population there would definitely be few hundred million rich
And their population would be more than entire population of Malaysia

 

[tower9]

This is all a drama played by Mr Trump. US companies leaving China has zero impact on China. In fact it has more impact on the US since the US companies loose Chinese customers and hence profits. There are two fundamentals which a lot of people don't understand.

1- China's export oriented Economy with reliance of exports to the West , and with reliance on "Cheap Labor" actually started changing in 2008 when China began to create "Internal economic" of "Internal Consumers". Chinese people are now the customers and they are 1.5 Billion Customer! The wages in China have grown dramatically which reflects on the success of new Economic model of China.

2- The trade war is in fact a "Technology War" due to a very simple reason - China has surpassed the US in 5G tech, and other disruptive technologies.

So it DOES NOT matter how many Tariffs US put on China, it is not going to have any impact. The ONLY way US can suppress China is via the CONTROL OF ENERGY SOURCES. I have said it plenty of times, Energy is the Achilles heel of China.

China has surpassed the US in some technologies, but the US is still clearly the tech leader. I think the US has at least ten solid years where it will remain the unchallenged leader in tech. China may be able to surpass the US after that, but that's still a major IF.

Also, China is no match for the US militarily, not to mention politically. The US can cause a lot of trouble for China as we are seeing now playing out in Hong Kong. So China is very vulnerable to the levers the US has.

 

[Yaseen1]

u.s trade war and sanctions are not limited to china,they did same with nkorea,iran,russia and any other nation who not act according to u.s will and not accept slavery of u.s.This matter is not as simple as you are considering

The main reason for the present trade war between US and China is that previous US presidents in the past couple of decades were lenient towards China and their various policies to "force" American/Western companies to transfer the "technology" (usually these are company secrets) in case they wanted to manufacture in China and wanted to access chinese consumer markets. Chinese even started "stealing" the tech secrets of the advanced US semiconductor companies through cyber attacks of western companies' websites and databases, this process just got too much accelerated in the last 10 years or so after 2008 financial crisis in the US after which the US companies became reckless to reduce their production costs by transferring their production lines to China often accepting the "transfer" of technology demand of Chinese government. Then when "Xi jinping" came into power he announced that China will move from being just a cheap labour economy to the one producing "high tech semiconductor technologies" inside china, I think this was announced in 2014 or so, this just raised the "alarm" among the US think tanks that China has accumulated/stolen "enough" high tech "secrets/processes/technologies" that it want to compete the original US high tech companies. That is when "counter China" policy started shaping up in the US, I think even Obama also had "blocked" many Chinese moves of take over of the hightech companies belonging to US or US allies like Britain or sometime even German. I personally know from 2016 news articles when Obama blocked the Chinese attempt of take over of a high tech German company called Aixtron,
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ron-bid-after-obama-blocks-deal-idUSKBN13X16H

So the basic work against denying China any kind of western high tech technologies started even before Trump came into power. Trump however has brought the "unbearable trade deficit" that China has progressively achieved against the US in the last decade or so, however the "protection of US/western" high tech technologies by China through coercion of US companies located in China or by hacking attempts to steal the high tech secrets by cyber attacks originating from China still remain one of the most important issues during negotiations between China and US to reach a new trade deal. Also US under Trump is demanding China to "fundamentally" change its economic policies with regards to how it "imposed various conditions of having a chinese partner and tech transfer" for any US or Western companies that show interest in investing in China. So it is a complex issue and China is "no saint" in the this issues as it is made by gullible members on this forum. I have been tracking these economic and "burning trade issues" for years now, so I have a good idea why this "trade war" is happening, china just don't want to be a labour force for foreign companies to make "shoes", "toys", "plastic utensils" etc. anymore, it wants to emerge as a "major player" in hightech semiconductor technologies/products, this is also the reason why "Huawei" is under attack from the US and why China is hell bent to "protect" a "private company" on the paper, but I doubt it is "actually" a private company, it is just a proxy of Chinese state and I think they invested very heavily in this "high tech company" to emerge as a major player in production of high tech products/technologies.

 

[ARMalik]

Russia can help china to fulfill energy needs as they have oil and gas reserves

The Problem is the Russians themselves who can't be fully trusted due to their past behaviors where they have used oil and gas supplies as political and economic weapon. China DOES NOT want to rely exclusively on Russia. Just imagine if China purely relies on Russia, and Russia can charge any price it wants due to its Monopoly.

 

[tower9]

The main reason for the present trade war between US and China is that previous US presidents in the past couple of decades were lenient towards China and their various policies to "force" American/Western companies to transfer the "technology" (usually these are company secrets) in case they wanted to manufacture in China and wanted to access chinese consumer markets. Chinese even started "stealing" the tech secrets of the advanced US semiconductor companies through cyber attacks of western companies' websites and databases, this process just got too much accelerated in the last 10 years or so after 2008 financial crisis in the US after which the US companies became reckless to reduce their production costs by transferring their production lines to China often accepting the "transfer" of technology demand of Chinese government. Then when "Xi jinping" came into power he announced that China will move from being just a cheap labour economy to the one producing "high tech semiconductor technologies" inside china, I think this was announced in 2014 or so, this just raised the "alarm" among the US think tanks that China has accumulated/stolen "enough" high tech "secrets/processes/technologies" that it now is ready to compete the original US high tech companies. That is when "counter China" policy started shaping up in the US, I think even Obama also had "blocked" many Chinese moves of take over of the hightech companies belonging to US or US allies like Britain or sometime even German. I personally know from 2016 news articles when Obama blocked the Chinese attempt of take over of a high tech German company called Aixtron,
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ron-bid-after-obama-blocks-deal-idUSKBN13X16H

So the basic work against denying China any kind of western high tech technologies started even before Trump came into power. Trump however has brought the "unbearable trade deficit" that China has progressively achieved against the US in the last decade or so, however the "protection of US/western" high tech technologies by China through coercion of US companies located in China or by hacking attempts to steal the high tech secrets by cyber attacks originating from China still remain one of the most important issues during negotiations between China and US to reach a new trade deal. Also US under Trump is demanding China to "fundamentally" change its economic policies with regards to how it "imposed various conditions of having a chinese partner and tech transfer" for any US or Western companies that show interest in investing in China. So it is a complex issue and China is "no saint" in the this issues as it is made by gullible members on this forum. I have been tracking these economic and "burning trade issues" for years now, so I have a good idea why this "trade war" is happening, china just don't want to be a labour force for foreign companies to make "shoes", "toys", "plastic utensils" etc. anymore, it wants to emerge as a "major player" in hightech semiconductor technologies/products, this is also the reason why "Huawei" is under attack from the US and why China is hell bent to "protect" a "private company" on the paper, but I doubt it is "actually" a private company, it is just a proxy of Chinese state and I think they invested very heavily in this "high tech company" to emerge as a major player in production of high tech products/technologies.

I agree with your assessment.

I think Xi Jinping and much of China's leadership became arrogant and also complacent, assuming the US depended on China, valued the business relationship too much, that US corporations will forever steer US policy and they overreached. They overreached in the South China Sea, they overreached in announcing their ambitions even though China was still far behind in many extremely important core technologies like semiconductors, precision manufacturing, engine technology, AI, etc etc. But they never expected a wild card like Trump who disrupted everything. That's why they are trying to downplay everything now and trying to backtrack, but it's too late, they showed their cards too early. If they were smarter, they would've shown their cards after they actually equaled or surpassed the US.

 

[ARMalik]

In that case China shouldn't worry about US companies pulling out if China has surpassed US in tech. Which it hasn't btw. China is still dependent on western tech.

You need to read my post again as this is not what I said. I said "5G and Disruptive technologies". You are talking about the "tech" in general sense.