Tommorrow Conflicts, the real conflict.

[Stargate]

Who is noone?

 

[gubbi]

LOL, if you want to see who was "complicit" in China's rise, look no further than the good ol' US of A.

(Who also supported Pakistan if you remember.)

You cannot "blame" US for China's growth. Planned economies - soviet style- didnt work. Once China and then later India, plugged their economies into the free market system, both countries observed phenomenal growth. "Blame" the system and stalwarts who work it for China's rise.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What are the present threats to China which would justify its rapid militarization on such a huge scale?

You didn't actually answer the question, but nevermind.

China has had enough bad history (the century of humiliation) to know that you're asking for trouble, if you can't defend yourself.

And India should know the same.

I don't need to tell this to the USA though, considering their military budget is already bigger than most of the world combined.

What justifies that then?

 

[below_freezing]

Learn English. Use Google to look for information. Baidu is not good enough.

Just FYI: Pariah State/Nation - A pariah state is one whose conduct is considered to be out of line with international norms of behavior. This term is closely related to the term rogue state.

The US is then a rogue state. Normal states follow the rules of the UN. The US violated UN resolution on Iraq in 2003 when it unilaterally and unprovokedly used force against the sovereign UN member state Republic of Iraq. The US has in fact violated the same amount of UN resolutions as North Korea.

 

[muse]

Gubbi, you seem to have decided to take this thread in a very negative direction - perhaps you will reconsider and direct your considerable talent to the question at hand?

 

[Awesome]

I disagree. Theres no other worse misconception than this. There are many countries which are different from what the west generally subscribes. Japan, India, Pakistan, African nations, many South American nations.

All nations that in some way or the other bow to the US. India is probably the most free, but thats the thing either one thing would have to give ultimately in the US-India relationship too. Either India would have to bow, or US would stop being friendly to India in the long run.

Indian and Russian relationship is about a lot more equality and has stood the test of time. Its purely about interests. The US does not play with interests alone, it has world domination at the back of every thing it does. Which is why the Chinese rise bothers it. Which is why you see a lot more anti-Chinese sentiments from the Americans than you see anti-American ones from the Chinese.

 

[untitled]

What are the present threats to China which would justify its rapid militarization on such a huge scale? What are the real intentions of trying to counter US forces in the Pacific when they are not gearing up to attack China? Why support pariah nations whose intentions are suspect, both in the UN and militarily? Why roll out a red carpet to a convicted murderer, a genocidal head of state of Sudan? Why support Pakistan in its nuclear ambitions when its proliferation record is out there in the open. Why support the Myanmar Junta (actually even India does it)? Why support and protect the NK despots? There are a lot of questions on China's conduct but noone here is talking about a doomsday scenario for China.

Why does the US have a Naval Task Force in the Taiwanese strait...
Why cant Pakistan buy nuclear technology for its energy needs from China if others are not willing to supply it
India own record in nuclear non proliferation is not crystal clear
hhttp://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/762/indias-nonproliferation-record

 

[gubbi]

Gubbi, you seem to have decided to take this thread in a very negative direction - perhaps you will reconsider and direct your considerable talent to the question at hand?

I apologies if I have. The PIG comment was what riled me.

 

[Outman]

Learn English. Use Google to look for information. Baidu is not good enough.

Just FYI: Pariah State/Nation - A pariah state is one whose conduct is considered to be out of line with international norms of behavior. This term is closely related to the term rogue state.

so you learn your english through wikipedia, good for you, much more credible and reliable than my ancient history of carrying a ton of books and dictionaries to school before sunrise.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You cannot "blame" US for China's growth. Planned economies - soviet style- didnt work. Once China and then later India, plugged their economies into the free market system, both countries observed phenomenal growth. "Blame" the system and stalwarts who work it for China's rise.

The point is, that all the problems you have taken issue with, were at one time or another, supported by the USA.

Some turned ugly, like the Afghan Muhajideen or Saddam Hussein.

Some went against the US world view, like China and Iran, and perhaps soon Pakistan as well.

It went far beyond just "tacit support" (allowing it to happen), America gave explicit support to all these entities.

 

[gubbi]

The US is then a rogue state. Normal states follow the rules of the UN. The US violated UN resolution on Iraq in 2003 when it unilaterally and unprovokedly used force against the sovereign UN member state Republic of Iraq. The US has in fact violated the same amount of UN resolutions as North Korea.

I have never supported the war in Iraq. And I know many US citizens who never did. Afghanistan is another story.

Unlike North Korea, US has its priorities set right - it takes care of its own citizens, not only the ruling elite while leaving the masses to starve. One needs to be really detached from the world to compare US with NK.

 

[below_freezing]

I have never supported the war in Iraq. And I know many US citizens who never did. Afghanistan is another story.

Unlike North Korea, US has its priorities set right - it takes care of its own citizens, not only the ruling elite while leaving the masses to starve. One needs to be really detached from the world to compare US with NK.

If I had access to an income pyramid of the US, and then shrank the total US economy down to North Korea's size, I bet a similar proportion of population would be unable to afford food.

 

[untitled]

I have never supported the war in Iraq. And I know many US citizens who never did. Afghanistan is another story.

Unlike North Korea, US has its priorities set right - it takes care of its own citizens, not only the ruling elite while leaving the masses to starve. One needs to be really detached from the world to compare US with NK.

Where did you get the idea that North Korea allows its population to starve ? If it recognizes anything .. it recognizes the right of its citizens to eat... How can you grow a crop in a drought?

Why has the UN, US imposed such harsh sanctions on it ? Just because it has pursued a nuclear weapons program ?

Should the US do the same to India, Pakistan and China ?

 

[muse]

Unlike North Korea, US has its priorities set right - it takes care of its own citizens, not only the ruling elite while leaving the masses to starve. One needs to be really detached from the world to compare US with NK

But some point out that the US has in the process bankrupted itself and now depends on the Chinese to finance her government, is that looking out for her peoples - truly a complicated world

 

[gubbi]

Why does the US have a Naval Task Force in the Taiwanese strait...
Why cant Pakistan buy nuclear technology for its energy needs from China if others are not willing to supply it
India own record in nuclear non proliferation is not crystal clear
hhttp://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/762/indias-nonproliferation-record

India doesnt sell nuclear technology on the black market, and not to pariah nations.
Pakistan, like any other country does have genuine power needs. However, China giving nuclear tech to Pakistan can be/will be misused to generate more stockpile of weapons. Given Pakistan's nuclear proliferation record, which country would want to invest their tech. Now why doesnt China ask Pakistan to ensure security in the region as a bargain for nuclear tech? China knows Pakistani nuclear stockpile is India centric, and yet China helps Pakistan with nuclear tech. What does that imply?
Let me ask you this - what will Pakistan gain from all this?