To all Indians

[Joe Shearer]

Try discussing with your friends issues you discuss on PDF, online. Its the same case on both sides.

Not entirely. Maybe I am judging from a wholly unrepresentative sample, but the Pakistanis I know outside PDF are true friends. RHR on PTH, but also the four on our personal mailing list. Even when they say things about Hindus, and about Indian administration and governance that sting, they are so clearly being fair and even-handed that one has to take things on the chin (even the Hindu bits, which I keep complaining don't apply to me). But that may be biased, because we chose to be friends. I so yearn to show my friends around, and keep hoping that before I'm too old, some of them can come and stay with their families with us, and I can take them to my favourite bits in India. We've talked about it, and most of them have agreed to eat vegetarian while they're with us.

On PDF, it's harsher. Oh, when Icarus and Notorious Eagle say things I don't like, there's no option but to stick one's hands in one's pockets and wander off to mutter rude things to the phlox. But some of the youngsters go right up my nose.

 

[Bang Galore]

RazPak is a nice person trying to be the tough, hard-as-nails SOB that he is not. The play-acting gets on my nerves because it is so unnecessary.

Funny....that's exactly what I always think when i read his posts.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Here I came to know about a class. Class that members like Oscar,Icarus to Armstrong represent. And I envy Pakistan to have that class.

Hear, Hear!

 

[Joe Shearer]

True. However, for the first time in Karachi, I've seen graffiti for people like Malala. For the first time I've seen posters that say:
What Pakistan do you want?
A) Quaid-e-Azam ka Pakistan
B) Taliban ka Pakistan

This has gone up in many areas of the city. It's new and it fills me with more and more hope that our closed mind shall open collectively

Quite seriously, I too am full of hope. Things are better today than three years ago. An elected government is about to serve out its full term. I mean, is that good news or what?

I wonder at times whether some are paid to post, and this is true for both Indians and Pakistanis

Oh, thanks a MILLION.

 

[Joe Shearer]

lol- i am paid to sit on a computer and do all kind of stuff with it all day till 5- does that count?-

You don't have to take it literally. Think of the effects on your mental and physical health.

Just learn to ignore ignorant kids & you`ll find friends all over the forum...

But if you expecting all flowers showering upon you in a defence forum then you are in delusion... Pakistani gov & army are seems foe till date for Indian army & gov... If you are discussing army of both countries then surely you`ll get some good blows from other side...

Aur fir sab log humari tarah cool nahi ho sakte na...

If we understand their stand & then expect they`ll understand ours...

Agar "hum hi hum hain baki sab pani kam hai" wala attitude rakhoge to kisi sarfire se galiyan to sunege hi..

From post one I didn`t abuse anyone for his nationality & thanks god no one abuse me till now...

I believe people on other side of border are very nice fellows like me...

What makes us Indians so eminently lovable is our modesty.

 

[Joe Shearer]

ISI does not support terrorism in any form

Puhleese.

Not before breakfast.

 

[Rig Vedic]

But the greatest change in my mindset was regarding the Bangladeshis. As oposed to the Pakistanis where I knew what to expect and hence was not surprised/shocked, I used to think the BD wallas were a friendly lot towards India. But the PDF Bangladeshis have done a great deal in changing my view about BD with their constant and bordering on delusion hatred for India and their paranoia of seeing Indian hand in everything.

Don't let this forum inordinately influence your views of BD as a whole. As I was saying on another thread -

The Bangladeshis here cannot be said to be representative of their nation as a whole. Bangladeshis inclined to join a Pakistani forum would probably be more sympathetic to the Razakar-Jamaat forces. Yet these forces lost the most recent election in Bangladesh by a large margin.

 

[vsdoc]

One of the biggest gains for me personally from my days on PDF have not been linked so much to Pakistan as to Iran.

I know for the most part as a Parsi that Indian (Indian and Pakistani - I have really no idea about Bangladesh anymore) Muslims do not really have a problem with us. In fact we get along quite well, as we do with Hindus, Sardars (peas in a pod actually - in terms of drinking and colorful language and our love of eating), and Christians.

But we always (as a community) have this thing about Iran. Its different for us. Like we are the same people, yet now so distant. Most Parsis (in India - not so much those living abroad) believe that Iranian Muslims hate us, look down on us, resent us.

Meeting and interacting with Iranians here on PDF was like a breath of fresh air. Educated, articulate, proud, nationalistic, and accepting 100% wholeheartedly their Zoroastrian heritage and past.

Just saying.

 

[Baby Leone]

in this thread most of the indians have said Pakistan did tht & this and blah blah to india thts why we are negetive towards Pakistan & at the same time they also get shocked when they see not even Pakistan even Bangladeshis, Srilankans Chinese even nepalese peoples are more hostile & hate india even more than Pakistan...

Indians should now really ask themselfs, their govt & RAW abt whts wrong tht every one hate india........something is wrong with india not with Pakistan china or bangladesh...

 

[Kambojaric]

Pakistani Members

- Identities confuse me, one day they are Moghul invaders, the next day Persians/Afghans who migrated, the next day the heirs of IVC, the next day the superior Brahmins and Kshatriyas who ruled over low caste Indians, the next day victims of the brutal caste system who converted to Islam to escape oppression, the next day descendents of Arabs, and the occasional time when they of course discuss their linkages to Europeans.

Well that depends on which Pakistani you are talking to. There are roughly 190million of us so naturally there will be difference of opinions. I wont disagree entirely with what you have said but I would just like to emphasize the point that in Pakistan and in Asia in general, history by itself is just considered a tool which will reinforce your view on the society around you. Hence not to generalize as there are some striking exceptions, but the more religious folks tend to focus entirely on Pakistans Islamic past whilst ignoring the Pre-Islamic heritage of the region. But on the other hand there are many Pakistanis who are more than comfortable with their pre Islamic heritage. Take for example the numerous works of Professor Ahmad Hasan Dani on the IVC and the Buddhist culture of KP.

 

[KRAIT]

I never thought will talk to Pakistanis so much. But turned out, in this forum, few Pakistani have become better friends. And it wasn't that difficult to get along with them, all it needed is doing some leg pulling while casually taking theirs with no malice. As long as you are not passing on hurting comments, Pakistanis turned out fine , at least for me.

Few I dislike, but well to be honest, there are few Indians whom I don't like either because of their over-emotionality and too much hatred that they often cross line. At the end of the day, its a forum, and having few debates with Imran bhai over who will bring bottle next time, or Jon Asad thanking and appreciating Tharki posts, Razii hating Indians and still talking to them, hanging out with Hyperion , Talon, Armstrong at Naswar corner, Aeronaut's music selection etc. etc. so its all good for me.

Waise bhi apan jyada tension, naa to lete hain, naa hi dete hain......

Many more names...too many names....


P.S. Indians not mentioned as this thread is only about Pakistanis.

 

[Contrarian]

My view has changed some part, confirmed some part.

I thought Pakistan was like Afghanistan where everyone has a huge beard and dont allow women to drive! I know that they have a vibrant culture, youth who who are gainfully engaged, and people who are able to have an intelligent discussion.

My view earlier was also that Pakistani's are brainwashed by their establishment about everything that happens - that view has been confirmed. I have never seen such a population that doesnt know the truth, believes in its own version of the truth/half truths! Everything wrong is spun in Pakistan as a conspiracy by the rest of the world, even less rains! Everything lost is spun as a victory by some perverted notion - like we won the war because India was not able to destroy us in the war we started!

Today when you ask Pakistani's the achievement of their nation in 65 years - pat comes the reply - we have the nuclear bomb! Big deal.

Then comes the identity crisis. I have also never seen such an identity crisis in one nation. Some will say we have nothing to do with India, we have never lived with them in the history from the day earth solidified! Others will say we are sons of the soil and are the same as Indians, others yet will say we(Pakistani's as a whole) are Arabia/Central Asian from heritage!

Either they have nothing to do with pre Islamic past - they dont even teach that to their kids! To the next day when IVC is their celebrated heritage!

Some celebrate destruction of shrines, others are so secular and say that religion is between man and god, not a public issue!

Then they cannot even decide what kind of a nation they want. I mean its understandable that different people have different opinions, but the majority population always has a single view of what their nation should be like. Like 99% Indians are clear - they want a secular nation - and they try to achieve it gradually.

Pakistani's dont know what Jinnah wanted, some argue he wanted a theocratic state, some say he wanted a muslim majority secular state, others yet say he wanted a Islamic liberal progressive state.

The good thing i feel now, is that earlier, those who were of the liberal view were subdued, and the population brainwashed, today due to the nature of easy information flow, keeping Pakistani's under wraps is harder, so the liberal voices grow stronger.

The country does appear to be getting its priorities right. They are now starting to talk about the real issues in Pakistan. That is a big deal. Its a great start.

 

[darkinsky]

Then comes the identity crisis. I have also never seen such an identity crisis in one nation. Some will say we have nothing to do with India, we have never lived with them in the history from the day earth solidified! Others will say we are sons of the soil and are the same as Indians, others yet will say we(Pakistani's as a whole) are Arabia/Central Asian from heritage!

let me clear you, the people in balochistan KPK, FATA GB and AJK have nothing to do with indian civilization, punjab, sindh both border these areas, and they have remained a hot bed of mixture from both east and the west, people arnt confused, the culture and tradition has been detached from hindu customes since for long, and this separation is also proving to detach from rest of the indian traditions that we had, the baloch and pashtuns have genuine relations with arab and the persians, there is no denial in that and the hazaras have genuine heritage and blood relations with turks, there is no denial in that, and their cultures have been heavily influed from the west and not the east

there is no identity crises, indian have to understand pakistan is not just another indian state it has different identity, pakistan is a mixture, people will be claiming that they are more closer to indian and at the same time people may claim they are closer to arabs and turks

a pashtun bread

a punjabi bread

 

[RazPaK]

RazPak is a nice person trying to be the tough, hard-as-nails SOB that he is not. The play-acting gets on my nerves because it is so unnecessary. I am not yet sure what to make of you. On this thread, you are likable. I do seem to remember a cussed young goat on other threads however.

LoL.

Is that what you think of me?


Thanks.

Trying to be tough?

I am what I am.

Life was never easy for me.

Plus the tough as nails part if true. If any Indian can come to my farm and do even an hour's worth of work with me, then I will consider him an equal. Otherwise, well you know.

Thanks for the psycho-analysis, I didn't know I was given so much thought. You should meet me before deeming me a nice guy.

 

[KS]

LoL.

Is that what you think of me?


Thanks.

Trying to be tough?

I am what I am.

Life was never easy for me.

Plus the tough as nails part if true. If any Indian can come to my farm and do even an hour's worth of work with me, then I will consider him an equal. Otherwise, well you know.

Thanks for the psycho-analysis, I didn't know I was given so much thought. You should meet me before deeming me a nice guy.

You seem to think of all Indians as yuppies who were born in an incubator, bred in a silk cocoon and whose hands are made of velvet. We all atleast most have the same rustic background as you and gone through the same trials and tribulations.