please give the reference of the event you have mentioned of Hazrat Umar....and if you are giving examples of caliphs, i would like to point that Hazrat Abu Bakr's time all the false prophets and their followers were dealt with strictly until they and unless they repented, so you think that you understand islam much better than he did? oh and about being insecure and an imbecile, again i will give Hazrat Abu Bakr's example that he fought those people, you think he was insecure too? and about hath sy roko etc that is what i am doing, i am stopping him from the means that are available to me, i've totally no problem if a non-muslim dies for the country i will respect him for that, but a non-muslim who calls himself a muslim that is where the problem begins.
Ummm...firstly, Hazrat Abu Bakar fought only against the false prophets who had amassed armies and were bent on insurrection against the Muslim state. They were a direct threat to the state. One of them later disbanded his/her armies and he/she was left alone. Pop quiz! What was this false prophet's name? So I, probably, not definitely, understand Islam and its history just a tad bit better than you. And oh puhleez, you're thinking of following the companions of the Prophet on a set code following what they did? Those men followed thought and reason. They had two opposite decisions in two almost exactly the same situations. Why? Because they weren't stupid enough to follow a manual written in stone of "what to do in what situation". Could you also please tell me what the Prophet did to the Munafiqin living in his city, under his nose? So like I said you're a one line warrior.
and about hath sy roko etc that is what i am doing, i am stopping him from the means that are available to me,
And that was exactly the point. That commandment is not directed towards your means but towards your means, your rights and the other person's rights i.e. Do you have the right to stop him with your hand? NO! So buzz off and know it wrong in your heart. For example, I'm a tall sturdy fella and say that you're scrawny. Now you believe that Ahmedis should be ostracized, right? I think that's wrong. Now I, by all means, have
the means of making you bend to my will. Should I come over to your house, rub your nose in the ground and make you kiss an Ahmedi?
Again about being insecure and an imbecile, please tell me why Prophets were sent in the first place...to tell the people what is wrong and what is write, I am just following their path....telling people what is wrong and what is right....so what are you doing? what means are you using to inform people about this? next thng we know jews, christians etc. will be muslims too
This is for your second post as well,
I never said that you cannot guide anyone. You can and should tell people what you think is right. That is your right and duty. But there's a difference between telling and imposing. You are to be a lamp not a hammer. You aren't here preaching what is right, you're here for an inquisition. You can believe that they do not come inside the fold of Islam, well the state has stated that. But believing that your beliefs should be the measure of another's beliefs and that you have the right to force them not to call themselves Muslims or that you can go around erasing the word 'Muslim' off of their gravestones? You have no right! You cannot impose your self on anyone and must realize that you are no prophet and hence are very worthy of being called out and challenged. And when someone calls you out you do not run to your closet trying to find the latest discrediting term in your arsenal e.g. fake liberal, hasn't studied Islam, must be a drunk, westernized, so on and so forth. You must also realize that a person's beliefs are his and his alone and his actions towards his God too. You can advise them where you think you see them faltering but that is it, that is where your rights end, unless you are directly responsible for that person (like a parent), but that too only till they reach puberty. But claiming you know how God will judge a person and so you judge that person for Him? That, at least to me, is sacrilegious to the order of false prophecy.
If you wanna follow the way of the Prophets first learn the way they dealt with all the people. Fix yourself and then think about others instead of taking it as your God given duty to fix every passerby's beliefs, while your own house is half built. And don't get me wrong, my house is probably in a shabbier state than yours (The least I could have done was use a better tone, for example). These matters are very precarious and we need to be very careful about them. I don't want to be tossed into the fire because I was too arrogant not to realize my limits. And at the same time I don't want to be infringing upon anyone's rights while inciting hate against my own countrymen who have done me no wrong.
ps: Learn not to think in black and white. Not every Ahmedi is evil, not every Jew is out to get you. You know, like not every Muslim is a terrorist? I'm a liberal but at the same time I'm religious too, I wear shorts but at the same time study Islamic theology too. PARADOX! PARADOX? No.....
I read the Hazrat Umar incident a long time ago, I'll have to search it.
