Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

[Armstrong]

Another thing is that I don't want my race, culture, language, heritage or homeland to be destroyed for the sake of Muslim unity. Neither does God command me to destroy or forget about either of those for Islam. I respect the differences present in all nations regardless of them being Muslims or Non-Muslims.

Why would your race, culture, language or heritage be destroyed for the sake of Muslim Unity ? There is a difference is standing up for Muslim Unity and adopting purely cultural practises from others under the guise of Islam !

Interaction with a variety of people has given me this idea, mostly by some of the Pakistanis that I have met. There are some Pakistanis that would gladly bend over for another person just because he or she is a Muslim. That makes me sick.

Please elucidate more !

 

[FaujHistorian]

......

“The Mu’minoon are but a single Brotherhood.” (The Holy Qur’an, 49:10)

....!

You my brother are reading this ayah without proper context. Did you read aya 1-9 to understand what kind of topic is being discussed?

Copy paste of Quran for your political purpose is worse than munafiqs. So don't be a munafiq and read first. and understand first.

In year 2012, and in Pakistan (or any other country), this ayah has to be understood in proper context. Use your own brain brother, do not fall into Mullah and Ayatullah trap.

Otherwise Pakistan will remain the play ground of Sunni terrorists attacking innocent Shias (and Shia terrorists attacking Sunnis where they can).

Country is like your house. You must protect it by protecting its borders.


Even blood brothers put up walls around their houses. Don't they?

Their own kids and wife always takes precedence over the blood relations. Such is the nature of human society. Only monkeys and chimps don't have a concept of walls around the house even though they look like humans, but they are still chimps.

And chimps do not have a concept of national boundary either. Even though all chimps are bound with the some sort of brother hood hood.

Same way you setup walls (some times real and sometimes virtual) around your city, and your country. And you don't let every nathu khaira come in regardless of the fact that he is a Muslim or not.


If your blood brother is burning down his house, or doing something stupid. You won't burn down your kids and wife. Would you?

Same thing applies to countries. A country of your birth or a country of your residence takes precedence over your religious brother. Just like the walls around your house take precedence over your blood brother.

And if your blood brother jumps over your wall, you will shoot him or do whatever you can in order to protect your kids and your wife.

Similarly if your will not let anyone come into your country without permission, or let anyone endanger your country because that's where you are raising your kids and protecting your wife.


So my momin brother, do not over-read into the ayah above. It is a concept that you have to understand in the proper context.

peace to you.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

That makes me sick.

Post 377; just 'Unity' in a nutshell:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/176773-pallywood-debunking-palestinean-lies-26.html

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Why would your race, culture, language or heritage be destroyed for the sake of Muslim Unity ? There is a difference is standing up for Muslim Unity and adopting purely cultural practises from others under the guise of Islam !

Lets see, the history taught in Pakistan for one thing. We should learn about both our Pre-Islamic & Post-Islamic history to build a true identity for ourselves.

As for borrowing cultural practices, I have no problems with that, culture evolves over time, it's foolish to expect it to remain static.

Please elucidate more !

Examples of this can be supporting other Muslim nations simply because they are Muslims even if it results in our own loss. This thread is filled with such examples. All of our country's moves should primarily center around benefiting ourselves. Looking after our own interests is crucial to our progress.

Post 377; just 'Unity' in a nutshell:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/176773-pallywood-debunking-palestinean-lies-26.html

I remember reading that post of yours, one of my own posts is on that page as well. So I obviously did browse through that page when I posted there.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Looking after our own interests is crucial to our progress.

No objections there; but it shouldn't come at the cost of a 'brother', if you so try to understand what I mean.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

No objections there; but it shouldn't come at the cost of a 'brother', if you so try to understand what I mean.

I understand what you mean, I never said that we should harm other Muslim nations for the sake of our own interests. However any nation that harms us must pay, even if they are Muslims. There is always a possibility of conflict among our interests & that of another Muslim country. In that scenario we must look after ourselves first as well.

 

[Armstrong]

Lets see, the history taught in Pakistan for one thing. We should learn about both our Pre-Islamic & Post-Islamic history to build a true identity for ourselves.

As for borrowing cultural practices, I have no problems with that, culture evolves over time, it's foolish to expect it to remain static.

I dunno what they teach in FA/FSC and the Matriculation streams but when doing the O'levels they had me study all about the Indus Valley civilization and the Gandharan Empire...about Buddha, Ashoka - the whole lot...! And many..many more that I don't even recall...of course the emphasis was on Post-1857 but thats understandable ! But I concede there needs to be a revision like that of most other things Pakistani...but surely its not as institutionalized as its made out to be !

Examples of this can be supporting other Muslim nations simply because they are Muslims even if it results in our own loss. This thread is filled with such examples. All of our country's moves should primarily center around benefiting ourselves. Looking after our own interests is crucial to our progress.

No thats an extreme example...! If there is one country in the world that I'm vehemently Pro...its China but even if supporting them results in terrible losses of my own...I'd digress from supporting them as I would expect them and all other countries to do so !

I understand what you mean, I never said that we should harm other Muslim nations for the sake of our own interests. However any nation that harms us must pay, even if they are Muslims. There is always a possibility of conflict among our interests & that of another Muslim country. In that scenario we must look after ourselves first as well.

Agreed...! And you'd find countless Pakistanis saying the same thing about 'Afghanistan'; many of them ethic Pukhtoons themselves !

 

[DRaisinHerald]

However any nation that harms us must pay, even if they are Muslims

Right, hence why I'm emphasising on the brother part. Your own 'sakah bhai' (full-blood brother); if he came at you swinging a knife with the intent of killing or harming you, you'd probably stop him, try to talk or beat some sense into him etc., but you wouldn't kill or abandon him, would you?

Also, just for the records, if the sense of Unity is created among most Muslims around the world, then such things (wars between us etc.) wouldn't happen.

 

[FaujHistorian]

One of the huge negative impact of this "brother hood-hood (a pecking bird)" is that Sunni-Pakistanis want to copy Arabs and Shia-Pakistanis want to copy Ayatullahs, and Ahmadi-Pakistanis want to copy made up Khalifas.

What they say about role models. If you pick a thief as role model you are more likely to become a thief (not that you will become one, just the likelihood increases).

Similarly when you emulate civilized societies, you become civilized.,

When you emulate tribal (most of the Arab societies are tribal), then you become tribal.

And Pakistanis have become more and more tribal in the last 30+ years.

In the process we have lost the very concept of well organized society and gotten down to rabidly fighting dogs where Sunnis are attacking Shias (not too different from wild dogs attacking other animals).

We want our justice system to be a copy of hand-cutting, head-chopping Saudis.

We want to burn down Pakistani-owned KFC just because Ayatullahs hate America.

We do not have our own thinking anymore. And it is mostly in the name of Islamic brother hood-hood.

peace.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

I dunno what they teach in FA/FSC and the Matriculation streams but when doing the O'levels they had me study all about the Indus Valley civilization and the Gandharan Empire...about Buddha, Ashoka - the whole lot...! And many..many more that I don't even recall...of course the emphasis was on Post-1857 but thats understandable ! But I concede there needs to be a revision like that of most other things Pakistani...but surely its not as institutionalized as its made out to be !

I myself am not acquainted with what students learn in FA/FSC so I can't comment on that. People might be learning about the history of the land, but do they feel any kinship with their Pre-Islamic ancestors? They must learn to take pride in both the Pre-Islamic & Post-Islamic eras of their history.

No thats an extreme example...! If there is one country in the world that I'm vehemently Pro...its China but even if supporting them results in terrible losses of my own...I'd digress from supporting them as I would expect them and all other countries to do so !

My previous statement about supporting other Muslim nations just because they are Muslims is a bit extreme, but it gives out the gist of the idea nonetheless. Pakistanis are too fond of supporting other Muslims without thinking about their own progress. Corruption in our society just adds to that in my opinion, & has led to the horrible state Pakistan is in today.

Agreed...! And you'd find countless Pakistanis saying the same thing about 'Afghanistan'; many of them ethic Pukhtoons themselves !

Do you mean that there are ethnic Pakistani Pukhtoons that side against Afghanistan? If so then it's good that they choose to be loyal to their country rather than their ethnicity.

Right, hence why I'm emphasising on the brother part. Your own 'sakah bhai' (full-blood brother); if he came at you swinging a knife with the intent of killing or harming you, you'd probably stop him, try to talk or beat some sense into him etc., but you wouldn't kill or abandon him, would you?

I think blood brother is called "saga bhai" or in Urdu to clarify it's "سگا بھائي". Of course I wouldn't kill, harm, or abandon my own brother. However I do not consider other Muslims to be the equivalent of my "blood" brother. Spiritual or religious brother or sister perhaps, but definitely not one equivalent by blood. On another note please don't use hypothetical examples involving family, I know you didn't mean any harm by that, but I don't like that.

Also, just for the records, if the sense of Unity is created among most Muslims around the world, then such things (wars between us etc.) wouldn't happen.

As long as there are people there will always be wars, even if it's between Muslims themselves. The Islamic concept of brotherhood can't change that, people tend to forget about similarities during a conflict & focus on the differences alone.

 

[The SC]

There is a very important and proven potent principle in Islam called "sacrifice", be it self-sacrifice or wealth sacrifice or any other form of sacrifice for the sake of the general well being and continuum of the Ummah that transcends the well being of individuals or individual nations belonging to it.
This is the main key to the long term success of the Muslim Ummah against all odds.
When we talk about Ummah, one should understand that we are talking about Islam, Quran and our way of life today as a modern life ruled by our time proven religious system, encompassing all facets of life, and giving us this specific clean look and feel of ours from inside out.

I do not want to create any feeling of jealousy here, If someone want the same benefits, he can join Islam at anytime.

 

[somebozo]

There is a very important and proven potent principle in Islam called "sacrifice", be it self-sacrifice or wealth sacrifice or any other form of sacrifice for the sake of the general well being and continuum of the Ummah that transcends the well being of individuals or individual nations belonging to it.
This is the main key to the long term success of the Muslim Ummah against all odds.
When we talk about Ummah, one should understand that we are talking about Islam, Quran and our way of life today as a modern life ruled by our time proven religious system, encompassing all facets of life, and giving us this specific clean look and feel of ours from inside out.

I do not want to create any feeling of jealousy here, If someone want the same benefits, he can join Islam at anytime.

WE are not seeing any success despite making so much sacrifices that today more muslims are killed at the hands of muslims. I kindly advice you sir to leave your Mullah geere in Canada and come live among the ummah and bestow upon them your enlighted thoughts so they shall prosper and progres...or else kindly STFU....and stop misleading more people into a sh_thole...

There happens to be a lot of such "Keyboard Mullahs" who advocate the offical lines of Khilafat Movement from the comfort of their homes in Canada/ UK/ Germany/Belgium and USA.

 

[rubyjackass]

Ummah is a good thing for Islam, not necessarily for Muslims. What benefit would Saudis get by giving oil at a discount to Muslim countries? Except the satisfaction that they are serving God's will, for all its worth.
The irony is that the advocates of Ummah serve only the purpose of Islam-bashers by promoting a fear among non-Muslims about Muslims ganging up. And in turn this blows back onto Muslims in the form of discrimination and racial profiling. It turns into a hate cycle.

 

[The SC]

I didn't advice only non Muslims, but also half Muslims not to be jealous.
I am more independent than you are as far as mullahs are concerned and not advocating anything, your paranoia is legendary. And you are insulting some one from ahlo al bayt, living in Canada or elsewhere does not alter the strength of our faith or who we are.

You keep repeating the same things; Muslims are killing more Muslims, to probably hide the one million Muslims killed in Iraq alone by your protectors.
I guess every one knows by now that you are a false flag.

 

[batmannow]

The whole thing is dam, democrazy ! Its been imposed on us to divide us, & rule us?
Its up to us, what we should, accept now , in the year 2012? But as we, already selected a, very deadly human mangment system(demo-crazy), this thread is very, intersting, & a very cleverly composed, mind checking of, educated brain, drain of pakistanis!
If we keep follwing, the subject razed in the, thread! I am sure , some one , some day will, put up a thread, like “should we leave pakistan”, & then, more divisions, 40+ allied countries in afghanistan ,in IrAq, & else where, in the command of united states of america, demanding muslims, to be un-united,because that's in their dam national, intersts?
No its not, in pakistans national intersts to leave, ummaha, instead pakistan needs to promote, unity, so inthe future , not any SADDAM becomes, mad by CIA & attacks KUWAIT, to let these united & allied thugs , drink the blood & oil of muslim ummaha!