Time for India to Take Down Dawood Ibrahim

[SrNair]

Who told you that? It was a training center, not a base or HQ or anything of the sort.


Because Pakistan is stuck in some politics, the US technically manages to bypass international law by claiming to kill terrorists. Not to mention that Musharraf actually allowed them to do it in the first place. You are extremely misinformed if you actually believe that the reason Pakistan Army is not shooting the drones down because they can't.

They definitely can, ask your own soldiers if you don't believe me.

Get out of your delusions, Indians. Pakistan may not be the best in the world but come on now, you people are going really overboard with the whole ''India is a superpower and Pakistan is nothing'' BS.



That only proves my point about the terrain aiding them in stealth. Where did I say stealth was enough?
Here's what I said:


I said it was a major factor, not that it was everything. Stealth Helis coupled with difficult terrain (which allows them to use 'nap to Earth' to their advantage) makes them really difficult to detect.


'Invaded'? Yeah, story would've been much different and the Americans would still be crying their asses off because one of their best units got wiped off like some insects. If they released information about it, that is.


Oh, so I'm ignorant now? When you resort to calling people names, you automatically lose the argument. And no, it's not 'more than enough' , I brought some logical reasoning based on facts, to which you responded with some Indian media-induced delusional garbage. You're not convincing anyone with it.

What logic mr?.
You claimed that an underworld don is your man .We didnt claimed that TTP or BLA as our mens.They are just somePakistanis rioting against Pak Govt in Pakistan.While you claimed that a cold blooded criminal as your asset and what that means he might be in Pakistan.

 

[TankMan]

What logic mr?.
You claimed that an underworld don is your man .We didnt claimed that TTP or BLA as our mens.They are just somePakistanis rioting against Pak Govt in Pakistan.While you claimed that a cold blooded criminal as your asset and what that means he might be in Pakistan.

Wait what? Good strawman bro but I didn't say any of those things. I did not even mention the BLA or TTP or any 'cold blooded criminal asset'. Take your BS elsewhere, I'm not falling for it.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Drone attacks are conducted through CIA and ISI intelligence.
USA asks for permission before doing drone strikes.

Those who die in drone attacks are terrorist supporters or their families. No sympathies for them.

Drone attacks are conducted and operated only by CIA. If allies like UK are not consulted for drone operations I do not see any reason for CIA to consult ISI. Also keep in mind that the CIA deliberately kept ISI in the dark about the Abottabad raid because they do not trust ISI.

Funny that you cry about collateral damage when USA, India and Israel retaliate against terrorists. However when CIA drones attack Pakistan by magic only the terrorists end up dead and no innocents are killed. News media even in USA is full of reports on the number of civilian deaths because of drone attacks.

 

[SrNair]

Wait what? Good strawman bro but I didn't say any of those things. I did not even mention the BLA or TTP or any 'cold blooded criminal asset'. Take your BS elsewhere, I'm not falling for it.
View attachment 148697

What ??? Check your earlier posts yoy are swallowing your own arguements.Or should I mentioned that posts again?

 

[TankMan]

What ??? Check your earlier posts yoy are swallowing your own arguements.Or should I mentioned that posts again?

Go ahead, quote my previous posts. Do tell me when I said anything about BLA and TTP being Indian cold blooded criminal assets or whatever the hell you're talking about here.
Trolling fail, if anything.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Who told you that? It was a training center, not a base or HQ or anything of the sort.


Because Pakistan is stuck in some politics, the US technically manages to bypass international law by claiming to kill terrorists. Not to mention that Musharraf actually allowed them to do it in the first place. You are extremely misinformed if you actually believe that the reason Pakistan Army is not shooting the drones down because they can't.

They definitely can, ask your own soldiers if you don't believe me.

Get out of your delusions, Indians. Pakistan may not be the best in the world but come on now, you people are going really overboard with the whole ''India is a superpower and Pakistan is nothing'' BS.



That only proves my point about the terrain aiding them in stealth. Where did I say stealth was enough?
Here's what I said:


I said it was a major factor, not that it was everything. Stealth Helis coupled with difficult terrain (which allows them to use 'nap to Earth' to their advantage) makes them really difficult to detect.


'Invaded'? Yeah, story would've been much different and the Americans would still be crying their asses off because one of their best units got wiped off like some insects. If they released information about it, that is.


Oh, so I'm ignorant now? When you resort to calling people names, you automatically lose the argument. And no, it's not 'more than enough' , I brought some logical reasoning based on facts, to which you responded with some Indian media-induced delusional garbage. You're not convincing anyone with it.

It is safe to assume that a Special Forces training center will be manned by armed guards and they can atleast notify and take action if some foreigners engage in a firefight few hundred meters away from them.

And I feel bad for you if you honestly think that Pakistan can take on USA. Forget Pakistan, even China cannot take on USA in a full scale war. The Chinese will have to wait another 20 years to be on US level power. The USA pays "compensation" to Pakistan for allowing them to use their bases to bomb their own people. Pakistan may have the tech to shoot down drones, it does not have the political will or the courage to take on a superpower like America. Pakistan is not Vietnam or North Korea.

I am not delusional. India is definitely not a super-power yet, it is at best a regional power. What Indians believe, rightfully so, is that India has the potential to be a super-power. And India is definitely far ahead of Pakistan.

Stealth had nothing to do with their success. The Pakistanis do not DARE to fight USA. The USA is the single largest donor of Pakistan, not China. It is US weapons that give Pakistan an outside chance of surviving a war against India. Pakistan's political survival is dependent on America. The Pakistani army cannot bite the hands that feeds them.

Not a single American casualty was reported in the Abottabad raid. So I do not understand which Amerian unit was wiped out.

 

[SpArK]

BS.

India should never even try to recover Dawood or even his gang.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Wow, the level of Bull here is too damn high. Typical Indian brainwash.

First of all, these drones are officially intended for counter-insurgency and are thus completely valid under international law. The fact that they kill innocents (collateral damage, as per US) is a different matter.
Pakistan is not 'so scared of USA', but Pakistan Army/Govt. is not delusional like India and Modi. For Pakistan, actual geopolitics is more important than keeping the propaganda-loving sheep happy.

How is this supposed to be relevant? The ISI has perfect intelligence on groups operating inside Pakistan, that's where the Americans get their intel from when their drones actually hit anything.


When those people started suicide-bombing marketplaces, they stopped being 'our people'. There is no doubt that innocents get killed but that's just how it is.


If you had an ounce of understanding as to how modern geopolitics work, you'd understand why. Stop getting your information from Fox News (or whatever equivalent you have) and you'll realize how different things actually are.

If drones are valid under international law then why is Pakistani media and opposition parties screaming hoarse for drone strikes to stop? A foreign country is bombing your people in case you have not understood this simple fact by now. If you are ok with that as a Pakistani then I have nothing more to add. And why does Pakistan need US help to fight terrorists in their own country if your Pakistan army is so powerful?

I agree with your second statement. It is important for Pakistan's political survival to tolerate US drone strikes in its own soil.

If ISI has intel on terror groups then why don't they take it out themselves? Why be dependent on USA for a simple task like taking out terrorists? It does not make any sense.

Yes, when Pakistanis kill innocents in collateral damage it is justified. When US, India and Israel does the same it is a crime against humanity. That is Pakistani logic for you.

You don't seem to understand anything. To take on USA head on Pakistan needs to multiply its GDP by 100 and increase its industrial power to match the west. With your present GDP, energy crisis, lack of infrastructure and poor economy you simply cannot negotiate on a level field with America. Whether you like it or not you will have to follow their commands for your country's survival.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Bangladesh owe to India how ?

Sigh! In 1971 the Mukti Bahini was getting butchered by the West Pakistan army and the East Pakistanis came to India begging for help. India sensing the opportunity to inflict hurt happily obliged and defeated Pakistan. If India had not intervened then today Bangladesh would not have existed and you would still remain as a colony of west Pakistan.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Didn't you know it? The whole world owes its existence to mighty supa powa India!

Pakistan and Bangladesh certainly owe their existence to India.

 

[TankMan]

few hundred meters away from them.

2 kilometers. And they did respond, quickly. All of the eyewitness reports state that the Pakistan Military rolled through in a few minutes. It is also a fact that fighter jets had been scrambled over the area.

And I feel bad for you if you honestly think that Pakistan can take on USA.

There you go, here come the false arguments and strawmen. I never said Pakistan can take on the US. What Pakistan certainly can do, however, is shoot down US drones. I'm sure the US would be smarter than to actually invade Pakistan as a response to that, Pakistan may not be able to defeat the US but it definitely can cause a whole lot of damage, not something they can afford after Afghanistan and now the whole ISIS drama in Iraq and Syria.

The USA pays "compensation" to Pakistan for allowing them to use their bases to bomb their own people.

No, it pays a coalition support fund to pay for all of Pakistan's support in their Afghanistan misadventure. It might be tough to get this through your brainwashed skull but Pakistan actually supports the fight against terrorists and the people who bomb our civilians are no longer our 'own people'.

Pakistan may have the tech to shoot down drones, it does not have the political will or the courage to take on a superpower like America.

It's not about BS like courage. It's about being smart and doing what's in the national interest. Taking on superpowers to make sheep happy is not good for Pakistan, Indians may like it for now but they'll see the truth soon enough. (I'm referring to all the Indian 'bravery' lately, messing with China and everything)

Stealth had nothing to do with their success.

Yes, actually, it did. If they didn't have stealth, they'd have to ask for permission in order to not get shot down. Even if Pakistan 'doesn't dare to mess with the US', there would be no way of knowing whose choppers they were unless the Americans told us. So, they'd most definitely end up getting shot down unless they asked for permission. The only way they could keep their operation quiet was by using stealth, exploiting gaps in radar coverage and the terrain to get in undetected.

The USA is the single largest donor of Pakistan, not China.

Actually, the US has taken a whole lot more from Pakistan than it has given.
Pakistan lost Rs7,020 billion, got only Rs990 billion
Pakistan suffered $100 bn losses in war on terror - thenews.com.pk
If anything, they're paying us what they owe. It's not a 'donor' in any way. China, on the other hand, is an actual ally (again, not a donor), with valuable military and economic co-operation.

It is US weapons that give Pakistan an outside chance of surviving a war against India

Again, not true. According to recent statistics, only 27% of Pakistan's weapon imports were from the US. Even if the US was to stop selling to Pakistan, there are plenty of ways to get the same weapons, probably for better prices too. Not to mention some of the recent co-operation with China (such as the JF-17 program) has greatly reduced Pakistan's use of US weapons.
http://books.sipri.org/files/FS/SIPRIFS1403.pdf

Pakistan's political survival is dependent on America.

Oh really? Do give any proof for that. The matter of fact is that Pakistan can not afford US sanctions or any such political pressure. However, it is not 'dependent' on America in any way.

Not a single American casualty was reported in the Abottabad raid. So I do not understand which Amerian unit was wiped out.

The keyword was 'would'. The other guy was talking about what would have happened had the raid came from the East, to which I replied that the American unit would have been shot down.

sreekumar said: ↑
If they invaded from your eastern border story would be much different.

 

[TankMan]

Pakistan and Bangladesh certainly owe their existence to India.

Aside from the fact that they used to be part of India a long, long time ago, there's nothing to base that claim on.

 

[monitor]

Sigh! In 1971 the Mukti Bahini was getting butchered by the West Pakistan army and the East Pakistanis came to India begging for help. India sensing the opportunity to inflict hurt happily obliged and defeated Pakistan. If India had not intervened then today Bangladesh would not have existed and you would still remain as a colony of west Pakistan.

so actually you should owe to us because of our revolt you get the chance to fully defeated Pakistan .if we were not Bangladesh today then you have to squeeze between two wing of Pakistan and faced nuclear missile from both side .
secondly we were majority in Pakistan so i don;t think they can manage to keep us ''colony'' for long time if democracy prevail in Pakistan we might get our proportionate share in Pakistani gradually .

 

[Icewolf]

Drone attacks are conducted and operated only by CIA. If allies like UK are not consulted for drone operations I do not see any reason for CIA to consult ISI. Also keep in mind that the CIA deliberately kept ISI in the dark about the Abottabad raid because they do not trust ISI.

Funny that you cry about collateral damage when USA, India and Israel retaliate against terrorists. However when CIA drones attack Pakistan by magic only the terrorists end up dead and no innocents are killed. News media even in USA is full of reports on the number of civilian deaths because of drone attacks.

CIA and ISI are both aligned in drone strikes. That much is true. I don't know about other, that is USA and CIA foreign policy

 

[Indian Patriot]

2 kilometers. And they did respond, quickly. All of the eyewitness reports state that the Pakistan Military rolled through in a few minutes. It is also a fact that fighter jets had been scrambled over the area.



There you go, here come the false arguments and strawmen. I never said Pakistan can take on the US. What Pakistan certainly can do, however, is shoot down US drones. I'm sure the US would be smarter than to actually invade Pakistan as a response to that, Pakistan may not be able to defeat the US but it definitely can cause a whole lot of damage, not something they can afford after Afghanistan and now the whole ISIS drama in Iraq and Syria.



No, it pays a coalition support fund to pay for all of Pakistan's support in their Afghanistan misadventure. It might be tough to get this through your brainwashed skull but Pakistan actually supports the fight against terrorists and the people who bomb our civilians are no longer our 'own people'.


It's not about BS like courage. It's about being smart and doing what's in the national interest. Taking on superpowers to make sheep happy is not good for Pakistan, Indians may like it for now but they'll see the truth soon enough. (I'm referring to all the Indian 'bravery' lately, messing with China and everything)


Yes, actually, it did. If they didn't have stealth, they'd have to ask for permission in order to not get shot down. Even if Pakistan 'doesn't dare to mess with the US', there would be no way of knowing whose choppers they were unless the Americans told us. So, they'd most definitely end up getting shot down unless they asked for permission. The only way they could keep their operation quiet was by using stealth, exploiting gaps in radar coverage and the terrain to get in undetected.


Actually, the US has taken a whole lot more from Pakistan than it has given.


If anything, they're paying us what they owe. It's not a 'donor' in any way. China, on the other hand, is an actual ally (again, not a donor), with valuable military and economic co-operation.

Again, not true. According to recent statistics, only 27% of Pakistan's weapon imports were from the US. Even if the US was to stop selling to Pakistan, there are plenty of ways to get the same weapons, probably for better prices too. Not to mention some of the recent co-operation with China (such as the JF-17 program) has greatly reduced Pakistan's use of US weapons.



Oh really? Do give any proof for that. The matter of fact is that Pakistan can not afford US sanctions or any such political pressure. However, it is not 'dependent' on America in any way.


The keyword was 'would'. The other guy was talking about what would have happened had the raid came from the East, to which I replied that the American unit would have been shot down.

The US Navy SEALs were present in the compound for forty minutes. It takes 40 minutes to cover a distance of 2 kilometers for the Pakistani SSG? This is very good news for Indian army then If fighter jets were scrambled over the area then they could have taken down a helicopter. No matter how advanced and well armed a helicopter is it does not stand a chance against a fighter jet in air-to-air combat.

The Pakistanis cannot take down a US drone for the same reason that it cannot shoot down a Chinese drone. USA and China are the two pillars supporting Pakistan today when even the muslim Arabs have turned against you. USA does not even need to invade Pakistan. They stop their aid, support India's stand on Kashmir in UNSC, arm India on the same level it arms Pakistan and it will be game over for you. We are not questioning Pakistan's military ability to shoot down a drone, its the political repercussion from US that Pakistan is so scared about. And it took USA hardly two weeks to destroy Iraqi army.

And tell me one thing my enlightened Pakistani. If Pakistanis like you are so proud and supportive of US drone strikes then why did Pakistan briefly block all NATO supply routes as a sign of protest? Why is Imran Khan screaming loud to stop drone strikes? Why is Pakistan media against drone strikes? The move against NATO was painful for Pakistan because they then realised that Pakistan needs NATO more than NATO needs Pakistan.

I have been saying the same thing. It is in Pakistan's interest to take daily punishment from US drones. The US pays Pakistan in dollars for the bomb it drops and Pakistan quietly accepts the bombing. By sacrificing a few hundred Pakistanis Pakistan is able to utilise American aid money for its rest population.

Pakistan cannot lift a finger against USA. Raymond Davis killed Pakstanis in Pakistan in broad daylight. He was even arrested, but for how many years was he sentenced to prison? USA applies pressure and Pakistani lets him walk away scot free. You are under the illusion that there is an equal relationship between US and Pakistan. The truth is much more painful for you.

If the war on terror is so painful for you then why are you being a part of it? The reason is you do not have any choice in the matter. You will have to do as you are told to by your superiors. You talk about "national interests". What national interests does it serve you to bankrupt your economy by fighting America's war? Your home-grown jihadis you wanted to use against India turned against you because of your support for America. Pakistan has only faced troubles and disaster for supporting US war on terror. So much for your "national interests".

US weapons are far better than Chinese duplicate copies. A US F-16 aircraft is much better than anything China is willing to sell you. US P-3 Orion, Harpoon missiles are way ahead of Chinese weapons.

How much aid does US give you and how much aid does China give you? Who would you run to for help regarding Kashmir matter in UNO, China or USA?