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Time for India to Take Down Dawood Ibrahim

does that not speak volumes of Indian mentality?

Don' pretend to be a saint. There are no good guys in politics. What is Pakistan doing in Kashmir other than sending armed terrorists and creating trouble? The extremely funny thing here is Pakistani trained jihad groups are now attacking Pakistan itself. Talk about having a Frankenstein monster run loose.
 
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Have you ever been to Karachi? Even 14 year old Kids in Pushtun neighbourhood will start firing at any white men with commando uniform. lol

And how many kids fired at Raymond Davis?

It is a matter of concern for a civilised society if kids take more interest in guns than in their studies but Pakistan was always a different breed. If you think a 14 year old kid with an AK-47 has any chance against a special forces commando then you are a very intelligent man.
 
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Who says the US never conducted any operation against Iran? Read about history. From the Iranian revolution to shooting down an Iranian airliner the Americans have been conducting operations. If you are asking why have they not assassinated Ayatollah it is because killing the head of a state without declaring war would be a serious offence even for USA. For all the threats and aggressive postures the Iranians make in their speeches what have they done to hurt America? Absolutely nothing. And USA does not even need to go to war against Pakistan to punish them. Stop the aid and Pakistan is as good as dead.

Has the US ever conducted any Abbotabad style raid anywhere in Iran ever? Even to get their official diplomats out of the country they had to stage a major drama and get them out as artists (that too from another country)!! Shooting down an Iranian Passenger Jet, in international waters, is as lame as it can ever get. And I could only really laugh at the assertion that Pakistan is as good as dead if the US stops aid. Honestly, stopping aid to Pakistan would be the best thing that could ever happen to Pakistan (I hope you are not making the typical mistake that you Indians usually make when you deliberately intermix CSF to Aid).



Raymond Davis was a private security contractor. He had no diplomatic immunity whatsoever. "Negotiations" is diplomatic speak for any threats or arm-twisting made behind close-doors. US just had to demand release and Pakistan obliged. End of story.

Read and weep at your ignorance, wasting of my time and the fact that:

Raymond Allen Davis is a former United States Army soldier, private security firm employee, and contractor with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).[3] On January 27, 2011, Davis killed two reportedly armed men in Lahore, Pakistan. Although the U.S. government contended that he was protected by diplomatic immunity because of his employment with the U.S. Consulate in Lahore, Davis was jailed and criminally chargedby Pakistani authorities with double murder and the illegal possession of a firearm.[4][5][6] A car coming to aid Davis killed a third Pakistani man in a "hit and run" while speeding on the wrong side of the road.[7] On March 16, 2011, Davis was released after the families of the two killed men were paid $2.4 million in diyya (a form of monetary compensation or blood money). Judges then acquitted him on all charges and Davis immediately departed Pakistan



Now for the Abottabad raid. The Pakistanis first claim that Osama was not hiding there and the raid never took place. Now you say the raid took place but with active Pakistani support. For argument's sake lets suppose you are right. But this brings up a few uncomfortable questions.

1. Why were jets scrambled to "intercept" US choppers if Pakistani army was actively supporting the operation?

2. Why was the Pakistani doctor arrested and sentenced to 30 years in prison for spying?

3. Why does the Pakistani government vehemently deny any knowledge of such operation? Even the CIA admitted that they kept the operation a secret from the ISI.

Replace the word 'the raid' with 'a raid' and things might get into perspective, if they still don't then let me explain. Obama needed a 2nd term and his rating was abysmal, he needed a miracle to feed the American public to secure his second term.....OBL was that miracle! Also, to your noted points:

1. PakMil states that they scrambled Jets, how correct that information is could be anybody's guess. One thing is, however, certain that if the military did not scramble Jets when Pakistani posts within Pakistan were being pounded on by US Choppers for over 2 hours at Salala then they most definitely wouldn't scramble Jets for anything else US related, unless there was a paradigm change in policy first. At present, it appears that the US has a blanket immunity to do as it so wishes in Pakistan. Factually, we do not have any proof that any scrambling ever actually took place.

2. The Pakistani doctor is sentenced because he did what ever he did at the behest of a foreign intelligence agency which is tantamount to treason. Then it does not matter whether that resulted in any sort of an operation or not. Isn't it also said that it was ISI that provided the CIA with the mobile number which was eventually used to track and trace the courier who apparently eventually led to OBL??

3. Because they are drawing some sort of benefit from Obama Government.

Now I have a couple of questions myself:

1. If the US special forces actually had gotten to OBL, why did they not attempt to capture him alive using nerve gas attacks or some other similar method? Catching, and eventually trying in US court, the most wanted man on the planet alive would have been an achievement like none other.

2. Why was OBL buried at sea instead of his body being paraded as a trophy of triumph of good over evil and all that crap? I mean is that what is done to the body of the most wanted man on the planet????



If drone raids are good for Pakistan then why is there an "official condemnation for internal consumption"? Why not simply tell the Pakistanis the benefits of foreign drone strikes? Pakistanis world over are protesting against US drone visits and here you are saying that you know the inside truth.

I actually told you all that you needed to you and yet you post this question. The drone attacks are extremely unpopular amongst the common Pakistanis as they are considered a violation of the sovereignty of Pakistan as well as crime against humanity when they blow to bits 'alleged' terrorists, the biggest reason for their opposition is the general collateral damage when women and children are killed indiscriminately in these attacks.

I would also strongly advise you to read up on what the US officials say about these attacks and about Pakistani consent to them.



1. Can the US go to war with Pakistan: Anytime they want.

2. Can the US annihilate the Pakistani military structure: In a matter of hours.

3. Can the US send in ground forces: Provided they have a base they certainly can.

4. Can the US defeat Pakistani ground forces in Pakistan: ABSOLUTELY

1. Not really, it is a financial and resource nightmare, unless the aim is to use only aerial assets.

2. No they cannot, they cannot do that even in a full fledged military war.

3. No they cannot, unless they disregard the potential loss of lives on their side as well which cannot be justified.

4. NOT EVEN IN A DREAM!



Please do not mistake fighting counter-insurgency as full scale war. The US army was forced to do police duty in Iraq where in a foreign country they had to identify terrorists from civilian population and arrest, not kill, them. The Iraqi army was destroyed and Baghdad was conquered in hardly 3 weeks.

You think you will get the chance to use your ballistic missiles against USA? :)

And please don't mention guerrilla warfare. Your dismal record against TTP shows that Pakistan has no clue how to conduct or fight guerrilla war.

Our record successes in guerilla warfare against internal terrorists who are armed, trained and supported by foreign elements, is a major surprise to the US military and this is reflected in the recent statement of the new NATO chief in Afghanistan. Iraq had a seriously unprofessional military who had no patriotism, will or reason to fight. On the contrary, each and every single soldier of Pakistan would gladly sacrifice his life for Pakistan. Furthermore, Iraq has a puny population compared to extremely dense population of Pakistan which in itself makes it impossible for ground operation.

And I do not think that we will get a chance to use all assets against any aggressive force, I KNOW it.



Did China lift a finger to help Pakistan during Kargil war? Did China say anything in support of Pakistan during US drone strikes? There are no friends in politics. China is using Pakistan as a weapon against India. Once Pakistan serves its purpose they will dump Pakistan.

Did PakMil????

Did you forget that Pakistani stance was that it was only Mujahideen and therefore could not really provide any military support. If Pakistan was unable to provide any support, how in the hell would China look if it offered support to Mujahideen? What a retarded question. And why would China say anything against the drone strikes, apart from their vocal critique on collateral damage and human rights violations in these drone strikes, when the lip service of even GoP is lame? It is fair enough that China has supported Pakistan as a weapon against India........but would they sit idle if the US attacks Pakistan is a questionable debate, why not start a new thread on the topic?



America already has bases in South Korea, Philipines,, Japan, Diego Garcia that can suffocate Chinese economy via naval blockade. The Chinese are not fools to risk war with USA over a third country.

The questions is, with a Chinese military extremely capable of destroying all these bases and with the ability to defend mainland China against any threat, would the US government commit the mistake of taking on the Chinese to the point of no return? Especially when the US economy is in serious problems and the Chinese are sitting on a massive surplus?
 
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  • Dawood Ibrahim is the second wealthiest criminal ever.
  • His criminal D-Gang syndicate sit atop a multi-billion empire
  • Unaccounted funds from Pakistan are transferred through Dawood's firms in UAE to safe havens which is bad for economy.Dubai by its laws can facilitate just about any illicit transaction you can imagine.
  • Dawood managed to establish a huge empire, with lot of illegitimate businesses at Karachi and is indirectly responsible for the civil unrest and criminal activities related to a underground empire.
  • Dawood has emerged as the undisputed don of Karachi toppling other gangsters like Rehman Dakait.
  • Dawood and his men have made heavy investments in prime properties in Karachi and Islamabad, and are major players in the Karachi bourse and in the parallel credit system business – hundi.
  • Dawood's primary businesses include gold and drug smuggling.
  • The gang is also allegedly heavily involved in match-fixing.
  • Former MQM militants are apparently also working for Dawood as trouble-shooters.
  • Dawood often throws lavish mujras for Pakistani politicians and bureaucrats. A recent guest was a former caretaker Prime Minister.
  • Dawood and his men move around the city guarded by heavily armed men in civvies believed to be personnel of a top Pakistani security agency.
  • A number of government undercover agents, who came into contact with Dawood because of their official duties, are now, in fact, working for him.
  • Nearly all the men who surround him for security reasons are either retired or serving officers and they are more loyal to Dawood than the government of Pakistan because he keeps them happy – buying them expensive apartments and showering them with favours.
  • He also controls certain terrorist organisations . For example his bank account in Bank of punjab had more cash deposits in their tiny branch in Landi Kotal in the Khyber Pass, more than $70m, than they took in across the entire city of Lahore,Landi Kotal is in the heart of Taliban country. There’s also been a surge in inexplicable banking activity in other terrorism-hit areas, like Parachinar.

Its a wastage of time to take down Dawood, who is glued and is highly embedded in the system of the jihadi network of an established agency indulging in organised crimes, illicit transactions, drug trafficking, terrorist operations, criminal financial activities , espionage s, street crimes, civil unrests, underworld activities of Karachi and other cities.

Is that the power point presentation that all RAW newbies get on their first day?
 
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Eurofighter will become obsolete very soon. The aircraft is inferior to Rafale and F-35. Indian Su-30MKIs are better than Eurofighter.

I can only thank God that you did not make it inferior to Mig-21 in use of IAF!
 
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Has the US ever conducted any Abbotabad style raid anywhere in Iran ever? Even to get their official diplomats out of the country they had to stage a major drama and get them out as artists (that too from another country)!! Shooting down an Iranian Passenger Jet, in international waters, is as lame as it can ever get. And I could only really laugh at the assertion that Pakistan is as good as dead if the US stops aid. Honestly, stopping aid to Pakistan would be the best thing that could ever happen to Pakistan (I hope you are not making the typical mistake that you Indians usually make when you deliberately intermix CSF to Aid).

Read and weep at your ignorance, wasting of my time and the fact that:

Replace the word 'the raid' with 'a raid' and things might get into perspective, if they still don't then let me explain. Obama needed a 2nd term and his rating was abysmal, he needed a miracle to feed the American public to secure his second term.....OBL was that miracle! Also, to your noted points:

1. PakMil states that they scrambled Jets, how correct that information is could be anybody's guess. One thing is, however, certain that if the military did not scramble Jets when Pakistani posts within Pakistan were being pounded on by US Choppers for over 2 hours at Salala then they most definitely wouldn't scramble Jets for anything else US related, unless there was a paradigm change in policy first. At present, it appears that the US has a blanket immunity to do as it so wishes in Pakistan. Factually, we do not have any proof that any scrambling ever actually took place.

2. The Pakistani doctor is sentenced because he did what ever he did at the behest of a foreign intelligence agency which is tantamount to treason. Then it does not matter whether that resulted in any sort of an operation or not. Isn't it also said that it was ISI that provided the CIA with the mobile number which was eventually used to track and trace the courier who apparently eventually led to OBL??

3. Because they are drawing some sort of benefit from Obama Government.

Now I have a couple of questions myself:

1. If the US special forces actually had gotten to OBL, why did they not attempt to capture him alive using nerve gas attacks or some other similar method? Catching, and eventually trying in US court, the most wanted man on the planet alive would have been an achievement like none other.

2. Why was OBL buried at sea instead of his body being paraded as a trophy of triumph of good over evil and all that crap? I mean is that what is done to the body of the most wanted man on the planet????

I actually told you all that you needed to you and yet you post this question. The drone attacks are extremely unpopular amongst the common Pakistanis as they are considered a violation of the sovereignty of Pakistan as well as crime against humanity when they blow to bits 'alleged' terrorists, the biggest reason for their opposition is the general collateral damage when women and children are killed indiscriminately in these attacks.

I would also strongly advise you to read up on what the US officials say about these attacks and about Pakistani consent to them.

1. Not really, it is a financial and resource nightmare, unless the aim is to use only aerial assets.

2. No they cannot, they cannot do that even in a full fledged military war.

3. No they cannot, unless they disregard the potential loss of lives on their side as well which cannot be justified.

4. NOT EVEN IN A DREAM!

Our record successes in guerilla warfare against internal terrorists who are armed, trained and supported by foreign elements, is a major surprise to the US military and this is reflected in the recent statement of the new NATO chief in Afghanistan. Iraq had a seriously unprofessional military who had no patriotism, will or reason to fight. On the contrary, each and every single soldier of Pakistan would gladly sacrifice his life for Pakistan. Furthermore, Iraq has a puny population compared to extremely dense population of Pakistan which in itself makes it impossible for ground operation.

And I do not think that we will get a chance to use all assets against any aggressive force, I KNOW it.

Did PakMil????

Did you forget that Pakistani stance was that it was only Mujahideen and therefore could not really provide any military support. If Pakistan was unable to provide any support, how in the hell would China look if it offered support to Mujahideen? What a retarded question. And why would China say anything against the drone strikes, apart from their vocal critique on collateral damage and human rights violations in these drone strikes, when the lip service of even GoP is lame? It is fair enough that China has supported Pakistan as a weapon against India........but would they sit idle if the US attacks Pakistan is a questionable debate, why not start a new thread on the topic?

The questions is, with a Chinese military extremely capable of destroying all these bases and with the ability to defend mainland China against any threat, would the US government commit the mistake of taking on the Chinese to the point of no return? Especially when the US economy is in serious problems and the Chinese are sitting on a massive surplus?

1. Raids are conducted on the mission requirements. If need be the US can launch 100 Tomahawks at Tehran, what can Iran do? It will just rant and cry how great a satan the American country is. Iran is not hiding any high value target, if they did then America would act. You seriously need to read about CIA role in Iranian revolution and their acts of sabotage. It is no longer classified and in public domain.

2. What did you expect? That the US will openly admit he is a spy working for them. Or are you trying to tell me that Pakistan is so incompetent that they arrested and tried to prosecute a man with diplomatic immunity. In either case it is Pakistan who ends up looking like a fool.

3. There is something called reality outside the world of conspiracy theories, try to explore it someday. If the OBL raid was a hoax then why did Pakistan arrest and prosecute a Pakistani doctor on charges of spying? Pakistan too loves Obama?

- You are tight for a change. US can do anything it wants with Pakistan.

- If no raid took place and the whole thing is just a media hoax then why arrest an innocent Pakistani? According to you the whole raid is just a big fat media lie. And then again in the same sentence you claim ISI shared intel with CIA. So ISI is also playing a game of lies to help elect a US president?

- Yes. America pays Pakistan in dollars for every citizen killed. It's a very brutal and tragic trade fair going on in Pakistan.

Answers for you.

- Why shouldn't the US kill him? They are not India to feed him biryani everyday like India did to kasab. Moreover there would have been a hostage crisis to free the messiah of millions of followers.

- Only inhuman terrorists parade the body of dead men as a war trophy, not civilised human beings. India did not parade the dead bodies of Pakistani soldiers killed in Kargil, they were given a proper burial. This is the difference between terrorists and us, we do not become terrorists when fighting them. We have the moral superiority.

4. You only said that drone strikes are necessary and those dying in collateral damage are no longer your people. You change your opinion pretty fast.

5. US has an economy of 14 Trillion dollars. They won't even feel the pinch if they go to war with Pakistan. On the other hand if aid money is stopped then Pakistan will cease to exist.

6. The US can dismantle Pakistan military within hours. Your navy is little better than a fishing company and your air force flies American aircraft. Saddam had 1 million men, 10,000 tanks and several thousand artillery guns during gulf war 1. It did not make any difference to USA.

7. With what is Pakistan going to stop a US invasion? You cannot fight a poorly armed afghan unit of TTP who has invaded your country and you dream of defeating USA.

8. I admire your patriotism. But you are very cut off from reality. Your ground forces don't stand a chance against India. What will they fight against USA?

9. Your dismal record against TTP is for everyone to see. Even your own army has to seek prior permission from tribal sardars of pashtun lands before entering their territory.

10. The "only Mujahideen" facade did not work in the diplomatic community who isolated Pakistan. You expected support from your allies on Kashmir but to your horror nobody not even China and Arab countries bothered to hear you. Why do you think Nawaz Sharif had to run to Washington?

Wars are fought for political gains. Only small countries with self-esteem issues decide to let their egos come in between and declare war. Why on earth would China sacrifice its economic growth to fight against USA, of all countries, for the sake of Pakistan? Use some common sense for God's sake. And even USA had urged India to show restraint during Kargil war and asked India to negotiate peace like many NATO countries did. China did not utter a SINGLE word. The day you stop being useful to them is the day they dump you in the cold.

11. This has to be the heights of optimism. What makes you think China is willing to risk a nuclear war with US for Pakistan? China did not fire a single shot during Kargil war nor did they make any diplomatic noise. How much arms and ammo or diplomatic support is China giving you in your war against TTP? Is China even bothered about your zarb-e-azb?

You seem to have very grand delusions about international politics and "political friendship". There are no friends and enemies in politics. Ten years from now India and China could be staunch allies united against USA or India and USA can become official allies against China. It all depends on the situation and the benefits a country can derive. By using Pakistan the Chinese are able to fight a proxy war against India without risking Chinese lives. Your worth is only that much, you don't matter anything more to them.
 
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I can only thank God that you did not make it inferior to Mig-21 in use of IAF!

The upgraded Mig-21 in use by IAF is almost at par with the best in PAF. Once again you let your patriotism get the better of you.

1. How many BVR missiles does Pakistan airforce have? India has been training with BVR missiles for atleast 15 years befor Pakistan even heard of BVR.

2. How many of your fighters including F-16 can conduct night operations? The Mig-21 upgraded version can fly and fight at night and also fire BVR missiles.

3. How many 4th gen aircraft does PAF have? Mig-21 upgraded is not 4th gen but the Su-30MKI is certainly a leading 4th gen fighter. Also keep in mind that the Su-30 MKK is the frontline fighter of China.
 
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1. Raids are conducted on the mission requirements. If need be the US can launch 100 Tomahawks at Tehran, what can Iran do? It will just rant and cry how great a satan the American country is. Iran is not hiding any high value target, if they did then America would act. You seriously need to read about CIA role in Iranian revolution and their acts of sabotage. It is no longer classified and in public domain.

Perhaps you still did not understand my post. Yes the US can conduct an aerial war on almost every country barring a couple and get away with it but it cannot wage a ground war on many of the same countries. And acts of sabotage, infiltration, spying etc., through ground assets based in that country are very different from sending in armed & active military personnel in uniform into that country.



2. What did you expect? That the US will openly admit he is a spy working for them. Or are you trying to tell me that Pakistan is so incompetent that they arrested and tried to prosecute a man with diplomatic immunity. In either case it is Pakistan who ends up looking like a fool.

Pakistan ends up being a fool because you lack the IQ to understand simple things, that's a new one for me.

Immunity was claimed by the US Government which was not accepted by GoP as apparently RD was neither travelling on diplomatic documents nor was his name shared with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as part of any diplomatic mission. And in any case, it had to be determined by the competent authority whether RD enjoyed diplomatic immunity or not, despite murdering 2 unarmed Pakistanis on the street of a Pakistani city in front of hundreds of Pakistanis. I believe the consensus on this side was the RD did not enjoy diplomatic immunity.



3. There is something called reality outside the world of conspiracy theories, try to explore it someday. If the OBL raid was a hoax then why did Pakistan arrest and prosecute a Pakistani doctor on charges of spying? Pakistan too loves Obama?

Actually, there is something outside the obsession with Pakistan, perhaps you should give it a try and in the process understand what reality really is.

And I had already posted a response to this question.



- You are tight for a change. US can do anything it wants with Pakistan.

Perhaps you meant to say 'right'? If that is indeed what you meant then you will gradually learn that I am usually 'right' when I say something. And the US can do anything it wants to do with Pakistan as long as it is willing to pay the 'right' price.



- If no raid took place and the whole thing is just a media hoax then why arrest an innocent Pakistani? According to you the whole raid is just a big fat media lie. And then again in the same sentence you claim ISI shared intel with CIA. So ISI is also playing a game of lies to help elect a US president?

Simple, as I had answered before, the man was working independently for the interests of the US Government in sharp disregard to the interests of Pakistan. When PakMil or ISI support CIA/USA then they probably have good reasons but when individuals do it, they are doing it for personal gains and fall under the purview of treason.



- Yes. America pays Pakistan in dollars for every citizen killed. It's a very brutal and tragic trade fair going on in Pakistan.

No it does not, it is a sort of a packaged deal



Answers for you.

- Why shouldn't the US kill him? They are not India to feed him biryani everyday like India did to kasab. Moreover there would have been a hostage crisis to free the messiah of millions of followers.

In the next line you post about inhuman terrorists, but is it fair killing a man without trial? And please do not tell me the NAVY seals were ill equipped or ill trained and could not take down an armed old man if they wanted to. And wouldn't the US have caught him alive to punish him themselves, like they did with Saddam Hussain, if he was actually still alive? Do you see a single benefit in killing him over trying and punishing him???



- Only inhuman terrorists parade the body of dead men as a war trophy, not civilised human beings. India did not parade the dead bodies of Pakistani soldiers killed in Kargil, they were given a proper burial. This is the difference between terrorists and us, we do not become terrorists when fighting them. We have the moral superiority.

So where did you so foolishly miss the line when speaking of the US by bringing in India?

There is a MASSIVE difference in parading a dead body and 'producing' a dead body to the cameras as proof. Today we are supposed to take the US on their word despite them having the so called chance to prove that they actually took out OBL in that raid.



4. You only said that drone strikes are necessary and those dying in collateral damage are no longer your people. You change your opinion pretty fast.

The least we can do is 'NOT' lie. If that is hard for you then there is no further point of this argument.



5. US has an economy of 14 Trillion dollars. They won't even feel the pinch if they go to war with Pakistan. On the other hand if aid money is stopped then Pakistan will cease to exist.

That is your opinion and it is just as factual and important as the opinion of any other Indian. Also, how much aid do you think Pakistan get from the US mate? I mean are you this retarded to believe that the US aid to Pakistan plays any major role in the actual budget of Pakistani people???



6. The US can dismantle Pakistan military within hours. Your navy is little better than a fishing company and your air force flies American aircraft. Saddam had 1 million men, 10,000 tanks and several thousand artillery guns during gulf war 1. It did not make any difference to USA.

Let us not waste our time on how the US can or cannot dismantle the Pakistan military within hours or minutes or days or weeks because, to begin with, it is all hypothetical and extremely biased and blinded opinion of an Indian. Also, I cannot be bothered explaining to you how the US was being supported by the whole world against an extremely poorly trained and ill equipped Iraqi military which had no will, reason or interest in fighting. Just as an example, the US could not even engage most of the scuds that Saddam launched......I mean scuds that could not cause 0.01% of a difference despite most of them hitting ground and exploding!! Saddam never had anything to confront the US Armoured divisions with, neither had he the firepower to be able to take out bases from where the air attacks occurred.



7. With what is Pakistan going to stop a US invasion? You cannot fight a poorly armed afghan unit of TTP who has invaded your country and you dream of defeating USA.

TTP recruits locals and going to war against locals, with bonds and tribal affinities that are held dear in expectancy of being able to bring the individual back to senses prevailing over other sentiments, is not easy. But uniting the country under 1 flag against invading forces, from any country, would have a devastating effect on the soldiers of that country especially if they do not have adjoining land where they could retreat to. Incidentally, the US has never won a single ground war outside of the US.



8. I admire your patriotism. But you are very cut off from reality. Your ground forces don't stand a chance against India. What will they fight against USA?

Honestly, I will ask you a simple question. Actually, do not even consider it a question, consider it food for your thought, something to ponder upon. If the Indian military is that mighty that they can run over Pakistani forces, what kept them at bay in 2001/02 when India had amassed 700,000-800,000 soldiers at our border, 60% of the IAF at forward bases and 80% of the artillery and armoured divisions at the front? Just think about it.



9. Your dismal record against TTP is for everyone to see. Even your own army has to seek prior permission from tribal sardars of pashtun lands before entering their territory.

Ignorance yet again. FATA does not fall under the constitution of Pakistan, it is federally administered by will of the local tribes as per their wishes. PakMil respects that and takes them on board before entering in for an operation. Besides, urban military campaigns cause considerable damage and the tribals need to be taken on board before that.



10. The "only Mujahideen" facade did not work in the diplomatic community who isolated Pakistan. You expected support from your allies on Kashmir but to your horror nobody not even China and Arab countries bothered to hear you. Why do you think Nawaz Sharif had to run to Washington?

NS was SUMMONED because India had raised the Nuclear rhetoric and was playing all its diplomatic card extremely efficiently. India did all that because it was unable to dislodge a mere 4k-5k fighters despite engagement with 35k Indian Army and 10+ squadrons of IAF!



Wars are fought for political gains. Only small countries with self-esteem issues decide to let their egos come in between and declare war. Why on earth would China sacrifice its economic growth to fight against USA, of all countries, for the sake of Pakistan? Use some common sense for God's sake. And even USA had urged India to show restraint during Kargil war and asked India to negotiate peace like many NATO countries did. China did not utter a SINGLE word. The day you stop being useful to them is the day they dump you in the cold.

First of all, let me be blunt, we do not depend on China for our security. For that we have enough resources at our disposal to ensure that if we go down, we take our enemy down with us. My post was in concern to China, would China accept the US waging a war on Pakistan, its only ally in Asia? I mean the US could not wage a war on ASSAD despite the world backing it and despite the fact that Syria is so far away from Russia. Did the US defend Ukraine militarily despite all its assurances? Did the Soviets stand their ground in Cuba? All these major powers have red zones that must not be crossed by any other power for balance. If I was thinking for China, I wouldn't want US bases in Afghanistan as well as Pakistan!



11. This has to be the heights of optimism. What makes you think China is willing to risk a nuclear war with US for Pakistan? China did not fire a single shot during Kargil war nor did they make any diplomatic noise. How much arms and ammo or diplomatic support is China giving you in your war against TTP? Is China even bothered about your zarb-e-azb?

I had to repeat a word many times, for you, in my mind but cannot write them here. How many times I have explained it previously but there you go again. What semblance of a threat did India pose to Pakistan during Kargil conflict that Pakistan would have had to look anywhere in the world????? Your military is impotent when Pakistan part 1 is not at war with Pakistan part 2 and that too divided by thousands of km's of Indian territory. You can only dream of defeating Pakistan ever since Bengalis took away their share.



You seem to have very grand delusions about international politics and "political friendship". There are no friends and enemies in politics. Ten years from now India and China could be staunch allies united against USA or India and USA can become official allies against China. It all depends on the situation and the benefits a country can derive. By using Pakistan the Chinese are able to fight a proxy war against India without risking Chinese lives. Your worth is only that much, you don't matter anything more to them.

There are many uncertainties in the world. The certain thing is that Pakistan will still be here despite all conspiracies and attempts. And that India will still never be able to attack Pakistan, that is outside of your dreams.
 
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The upgraded Mig-21 in use by IAF is almost at par with the best in PAF. Once again you let your patriotism get the better of you.

That about sums up your IQ and comprehension of my posts. There I had compared it to the US F-35, and here you bring in PAF. How extremely pathetic dude.



1. How many BVR missiles does Pakistan airforce have? India has been training with BVR missiles for atleast 15 years befor Pakistan even heard of BVR.

I don't know, 500 AIM-120C5 and 800 SD-10B amongst others. And while IAF was training with BVRs, PAF was playing shooting down IAF.



2. How many of your fighters including F-16 can conduct night operations? The Mig-21 upgraded version can fly and fight at night and also fire BVR missiles.

F-16's, Mirages, F-7PG's, JF-17 are all night capable. And they can all fire BVR missiles.



3. How many 4th gen aircraft does PAF have? Mig-21 upgraded is not 4th gen but the Su-30MKI is certainly a leading 4th gen fighter. Also keep in mind that the Su-30 MKK is the frontline fighter of China.

The actual number is classified but it is enough to keep IAF threatened and at bay.
 
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Perhaps you still did not understand my post. Yes the US can conduct an aerial war on almost every country barring a couple and get away with it but it cannot wage a ground war on many of the same countries. And acts of sabotage, infiltration, spying etc., through ground assets based in that country are very different from sending in armed & active military personnel in uniform into that country.

Pakistan ends up being a fool because you lack the IQ to understand simple things, that's a new one for me.

Immunity was claimed by the US Government which was not accepted by GoP as apparently RD was neither travelling on diplomatic documents nor was his name shared with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as part of any diplomatic mission. And in any case, it had to be determined by the competent authority whether RD enjoyed diplomatic immunity or not, despite murdering 2 unarmed Pakistanis on the street of a Pakistani city in front of hundreds of Pakistanis. I believe the consensus on this side was the RD did not enjoy diplomatic immunity.

Actually, there is something outside the obsession with Pakistan, perhaps you should give it a try and in the process understand what reality really is.

And I had already posted a response to this question.

Perhaps you meant to say 'right'? If that is indeed what you meant then you will gradually learn that I am usually 'right' when I say something. And the US can do anything it wants to do with Pakistan as long as it is willing to pay the 'right' price.

Simple, as I had answered before, the man was working independently for the interests of the US Government in sharp disregard to the interests of Pakistan. When PakMil or ISI support CIA/USA then they probably have good reasons but when individuals do it, they are doing it for personal gains and fall under the purview of treason.

No it does not, it is a sort of a packaged deal

In the next line you post about inhuman terrorists, but is it fair killing a man without trial? And please do not tell me the NAVY seals were ill equipped or ill trained and could not take down an armed old man if they wanted to. And wouldn't the US have caught him alive to punish him themselves, like they did with Saddam Hussain, if he was actually still alive? Do you see a single benefit in killing him over trying and punishing him???

So where did you so foolishly miss the line when speaking of the US by bringing in India?

There is a MASSIVE difference in parading a dead body and 'producing' a dead body to the cameras as proof. Today we are supposed to take the US on their word despite them having the so called chance to prove that they actually took out OBL in that raid.

The least we can do is 'NOT' lie. If that is hard for you then there is no further point of this argument.

That is your opinion and it is just as factual and important as the opinion of any other Indian. Also, how much aid do you think Pakistan get from the US mate? I mean are you this retarded to believe that the US aid to Pakistan plays any major role in the actual budget of Pakistani people???

Let us not waste our time on how the US can or cannot dismantle the Pakistan military within hours or minutes or days or weeks because, to begin with, it is all hypothetical and extremely biased and blinded opinion of an Indian. Also, I cannot be bothered explaining to you how the US was being supported by the whole world against an extremely poorly trained and ill equipped Iraqi military which had no will, reason or interest in fighting. Just as an example, the US could not even engage most of the scuds that Saddam launched......I mean scuds that could not cause 0.01% of a difference despite most of them hitting ground and exploding!! Saddam never had anything to confront the US Armoured divisions with, neither had he the firepower to be able to take out bases from where the air attacks occurred.

TTP recruits locals and going to war against locals, with bonds and tribal affinities that are held dear in expectancy of being able to bring the individual back to senses prevailing over other sentiments, is not easy. But uniting the country under 1 flag against invading forces, from any country, would have a devastating effect on the soldiers of that country especially if they do not have adjoining land where they could retreat to. Incidentally, the US has never won a single ground war outside of the US.

Honestly, I will ask you a simple question. Actually, do not even consider it a question, consider it food for your thought, something to ponder upon. If the Indian military is that mighty that they can run over Pakistani forces, what kept them at bay in 2001/02 when India had amassed 700,000-800,000 soldiers at our border, 60% of the IAF at forward bases and 80% of the artillery and armoured divisions at the front? Just think about it.

Ignorance yet again. FATA does not fall under the constitution of Pakistan, it is federally administered by will of the local tribes as per their wishes. PakMil respects that and takes them on board before entering in for an operation. Besides, urban military campaigns cause considerable damage and the tribals need to be taken on board before that.

NS was SUMMONED because India had raised the Nuclear rhetoric and was playing all its diplomatic card extremely efficiently. India did all that because it was unable to dislodge a mere 4k-5k fighters despite engagement with 35k Indian Army and 10+ squadrons of IAF!

First of all, let me be blunt, we do not depend on China for our security. For that we have enough resources at our disposal to ensure that if we go down, we take our enemy down with us. My post was in concern to China, would China accept the US waging a war on Pakistan, its only ally in Asia? I mean the US could not wage a war on ASSAD despite the world backing it and despite the fact that Syria is so far away from Russia. Did the US defend Ukraine militarily despite all its assurances? Did the Soviets stand their ground in Cuba? All these major powers have red zones that must not be crossed by any other power for balance. If I was thinking for China, I wouldn't want US bases in Afghanistan as well as Pakistan!

I had to repeat a word many times, for you, in my mind but cannot write them here. How many times I have explained it previously but there you go again. What semblance of a threat did India pose to Pakistan during Kargil conflict that Pakistan would have had to look anywhere in the world????? Your military is impotent when Pakistan part 1 is not at war with Pakistan part 2 and that too divided by thousands of km's of Indian territory. You can only dream of defeating Pakistan ever since Bengalis took away their share.

There are many uncertainties in the world. The certain thing is that Pakistan will still be here despite all conspiracies and attempts. And that India will still never be able to attack Pakistan, that is outside of your dreams.

1. The Abottabad raid, Raymond Davis affair and drone strikes show that US can do whatever they want with Pakistan. You guys are nothing more than a failed state.

2. Raymond Davis kills Pakistanis and you are trying hard to show that he had diplomatic immunity. Why was he arrested then? Diplomatic immunity means a person cannot be arrested. You Pakistanis are very funny people.

3. That doctor was the one who revealed the location of OBL to CIA, not ISI who was trying to protect Osama.

4. The US was at war with Al-qaeda. I am sorry if it hurts your sentiments but in war enemies are killed. If you feel so bad about the death of a monster like Osama Bin Laden then please write a letter to Barak Obama pouring out your grief. And how many pashtuns are given a fair trial by pakistanis in zarb-e-arb? Don't be a hypocrite.

5. Why should US produce the dead body in front of cameras? You sound more and more like an immature kid who just woke up to reality and find it different from your dream world. OBL was killed by USA, deal with it.

6. First decide whether drone strikes are good or bad for Pakistan. You seem pretty confused yourself.

7. A major part of Pakistani economy is made up of foreign aid. What industries do you have? Hardly anything at all.

8. It took India 14 days to defeat Pakistan in 1971 and capture 90,000 POW - a world record that stands till date. You cannot fight against TTP what will you fight against USA?

9. The fact that locals are fighting for TTP against Pakistan shows that there is no nationalism in your country. It will be a repeat of 1971 and this time the tribal provinces of Pakistan will break free and become independent.

10. It was nukes. See Pakistan is a beggar state with no present or future. Things are so bad in Pakistan that the Pakistani government is killing its own people in exchange for American dollars. I doubt if TTP actually exists or if it is a grand conspiracy by Pakistan to kill its own population for dollars. India is a rising economic power. India can easily destroy Pakistan but India will also suffer because of nukes. India has today reached the moon and Mars, it is an industrial powerhouse. Look at Pakistan, it is still riddled with poverty. India cannot risk growth to fight a failed state.

11. That's what I meant. Your own country is not united. People in FATA don't even consider themselves Pakistanis. You are nothing but a failed state.

12. Your Prime Minister gets "summoned" by the head of another state? You guys don't have even the most basic of self-respect. Waiters in a restaurant are summoned by the customers, not elected Prime Ministers. And keep dreaming that Pakistan won Kargil war. You Pakistanis are very funny.

13. That's a good joke mate. Pakistan does not depend on China for security, LOL! That's why the Chinese are building Gwadar port and supplying you with cheap arms at discount prices. Without US and China you Pakistanis are worth nothing.

Allies are between equals, not strong and weak. Russia is an ally of China. What can Pakistan offer China that they will risk fighting a nuclear war with USA for your behalf? Do you have oil, no. Do you have resources, no. Do you have anything that they can use, no. China has no shortage of allies. The US already has bases in Afghanistan, LOL!! And the US has a very strong presence in South Korea which is much closer to China than Pakistan.

For someone who claims that Pakistan is not dependent on China for security you are hoping a lot that China will protect you against USA :)

14. Yea, India posed no threat to Pakistan that's why your PM went crying to Washington. Oh I forgot, he was "summoned" there like a waiter waiting on a customer.

15. Yea, we can see in which condition Pakistan is alive today.
 
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That about sums up your IQ and comprehension of my posts. There I had compared it to the US F-35, and here you bring in PAF. How extremely pathetic dude.

I don't know, 500 AIM-120C5 and 800 SD-10B amongst others. And while IAF was training with BVRs, PAF was playing shooting down IAF.

F-16's, Mirages, F-7PG's, JF-17 are all night capable. And they can all fire BVR missiles.

The actual number is classified but it is enough to keep IAF threatened and at bay.

1. You were comparing it with Eurofighter. Your English comprehension skills are as poor as your grasp on reality.

2. Yea, only in dreams PAF shoots down IAF planes. 500 missiles, LOL!!

3. Yea. Because BVR missiles are so secret that you have to keep their number classified. You Pakistanis sure are a funny bunch of people.
 
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1. You were comparing it with Eurofighter. Your English comprehension skills are as poor as your grasp on reality.

2. Yea, only in dreams PAF shoots down IAF planes. 500 missiles, LOL!!

3. Yea. Because BVR missiles are so secret that you have to keep their number classified. You Pakistanis sure are a funny bunch of people.

1. Thank you for the opinion, I will make amends immediately to ensure you are kept property satisfied at all times ;). F-35/Eurofighter etc, neither stands a chance against the Mig-21 Bison, right? I hope I am already making amends.

2. Well, I guess all actual combat records speak what I said :).

3. Refer to point 1 of the post above, yours and not mine, and then perhaps you will also practice point 1 of this post of mine.

Anyway, you had asked about the strength of 4th Gen jets that PAF fields, that particular para was meant to answer that as the query about BVRs was already satisfied.
 
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