Thread by request: Issues facing Pakistan and their potential solutions

[El Sidd]

The whole social edifice is built on the predicate that religious ideology must prevail over all matters of state. That alone gives everyone and anyone to proclaim their their own personal beliefs must prevail over all others. Just take a good look around Pakistan as a result (and PDF, for that matter).

Seems obvious as daylight, but dark for those with their eyes shut, of course.

Religious ideology gave these people a country and asian cultures do put high importance of religion and see it as a bonding force rather than a political tool.

Objective Resolution on the contrary stops the religious extremism in the society offering them peaceful means to go after their socio-politico goals.

As far as personal beliefs being imposed on the masses. It is unfounded as no Pakistani political leader has ever tried such a thing and objective resolution stops them dead in their tracks.

There is no evidence to suggest that the objective resolution has formed terrorist ideology of any terror group. Please provide us with evidence to support your claim.

Thanks.

 

[VCheng]

Religious ideology gave these people a country and asian cultures do put high importance of religion and see it as a bonding force rather than a political tool.

Objective Resolution on the contrary stops the religious extremism in the society offering them peaceful means to go after their socio-politico goals.

As far as personal beliefs being imposed on the masses. It is unfounded as no Pakistani political leader has ever tried such a thing and objective resolution stops them dead in their tracks.

There is no evidence to suggest that the objective resolution has formed terrorist ideology of any terror group. Please provide us with evidence to support your claim.

Thanks.

The proof lies in the imposition of matters of religion as matters of state as mandated by the OR. It forms the basis of religious ideologies that over time have manifest themselves as radicalization. Terrorism resulted only when the state abdicated its control of such radical groups.

Of course, you refuse to see that, and will continue to do so. Please feel free to disagree and move on if you can.

 

[El Sidd]

The proof lies in the imposition of matters of religion as matters of state as mandated by the OR. It forms the basis of religious ideologies that over time have manifest themselves as radicalization. Terrorism resulted only when the state abdicated its control of such radical groups.

Of course, you refuse to see that, and will continue to do so. Please feel free to disagree and move on if you can.

then what stops you from equating Islam to terrorism since over time we have seen only Muslims blowing themselves up for religious thought? Why stop at Objective Resolution?

As i said in hindsight you can argue that feudalism and caste system were better system of governance too.

Matters of religion have never been imposed on Pakistanis and that means all religions including their sects. It is a false projection.

 

[VCheng]

Matters of religion have never been imposed on Pakistanis and that means all religions including their sects. It is a false projection.

So the forced closure of restaurants to respect Ramadhan is not an example to refute your claims?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

So the forced closure of restaurants to respect Ramadhan is not an example to refute your claims?

This idiot has his head buried so deap up his backside that he can't see or hear anything that resembles reality. Looking at his post numbers sums him up. Quantity but no quality.

 

[VCheng]

This idiot has his head buried so deap up his backside that he can't see or hear anything that resembles reality. Looking at his post numbers sums him up. Quantity but no quality.

It seems to be a fairly common (national) trait these days, to be honest, so no point in getting upset. We work with the nation we have have, not the nation we wish we had.

 

[Fledgingwings]

Bring back the Juma Holiday as official national weekly holiday.take sood out of national finance system,apply zakat over people on whom it is due and as strongly as Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddique RA did.watch results......

 

[Sine Nomine]

The whole social edifice is built on the predicate that religious ideology must prevail over all matters of state. That alone gives everyone and anyone to proclaim their their own personal beliefs must prevail over all others. Just take a good look around Pakistan as a result (and PDF, for that matter).

Seems obvious as daylight, but dark for those with their eyes shut, of course.

I guess KSA also has OR like Pakistan.

So the forced closure of restaurants to respect Ramadhan is not an example to refute your claims?

When does that happens?

 

[Imad.Khan]

I am creating this thread by request, but the mods are free to delete it if they so decide.

=================================

The two main specific flaws are:

1. The Objectives Resolution, which mixes matters of religion with matters of State, and is proving to be nearly fatal to the country.

2. The Army continues to overreach in many areas beyond its legal mandate, leading to severe deleterious consequences for the country.

The above two are specifically worded, but the more general issues fall into four broad areas:

1. The collapsing economy.
2. The abysmal social development.
3. The utterly failed state institutions.
4. The adrift foreign and defense policies.

All of the above are made infinitely worse by insisting on existing policies simply because the magnitude of change required is beyond the comprehension of those who formulate them, and they would rather suppress any criticism than make the required changes in order to preserve the status quo that benefits them immensely.

==================================

I look forward to your explanations @salarsikander and subsequent discussion if it survives the traditional whataboutery and personal attacks instigated by design.

All the problems being faced by Pakistan is due to the reason that there is no "Sazza o Jazza". Here is a simple example. Why is it that people in Pakistan don't follow road rules while the same people will follow the rules when they go overseas.

If people know that if they break any rules they won't be able to get away and will be punished, then they would stop doing anything wrong. If people know that they will be rewarded for doing good things then that will motivate them to do more good things. Unfortunately in Pakistan its the reverse, if you do wrong you will go free and if you do good things you will not be rewarded.

 

[VCheng]

I guess KSA also has OR like Pakistan.

I guess I do not care about KSA for it is not the topic in this thread, no whataboutery needed.

When does that happens?

https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2...g-drinking-public-ramadan-250-providing-food/

https://www.dw.com/en/pakistans-ramadan-laws-force-everyone-to-go-hungry/a-18579918

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/07/13/eat-at-public-places-in-ramadan-at-own-risk/

All the problems being faced by Pakistan is due to the reason that there is no "Sazza o Jazza". Here is a simple example. Why is it that people in Pakistan don't follow road rules while the same people will follow the rules when they go overseas.

If people know that if they break any rules they won't be able to get away and will be punished, then they would stop doing anything wrong. If people know that they will be rewarded for doing good things then that will motivate them to do more good things. Unfortunately in Pakistan its the reverse, if you do wrong you will go free and if you do good things you will not be rewarded.

Such failure to establish the rule of law equally for all citizens, rich or poor, no matter who or what they believe in, falls under #3 below as I listed them in the OP:

1. The collapsing economy.
2. The abysmal social development.
3. The utterly failed state institutions.
4. The adrift foreign and defense policies.

 

[Imad.Khan]

I guess I do not care about KSA for it is not the topic in this thread, no whataboutery needed.



https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2...g-drinking-public-ramadan-250-providing-food/

https://www.dw.com/en/pakistans-ramadan-laws-force-everyone-to-go-hungry/a-18579918

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/07/13/eat-at-public-places-in-ramadan-at-own-risk/



Such failure to establish the rule of law equally for all citizens, rich or poor, no matter who or what they believe in, falls under #3 below as I listed them in the OP:

1. The collapsing economy.
2. The abysmal social development.
3. The utterly failed state institutions.
4. The adrift foreign and defense policies.

IMO it falls in all of the above categories.

 

[VCheng]

IMO it falls in all of the above categories.

Thank you for agreeing with all the four items in the list, not just #3.

 

[PakSword]

So the forced closure of restaurants to respect Ramadhan is not an example to refute your claims?

Forced closure of restaurants is due to OR?

I think forced closure is a democratic decision where most of the population wants them to not open the businesses during the day..

By the way, I see food is delivered to homes by some restaurants, some restaurants don't open because its anyway a loss, some restaurants open up to 2 hours before Iftar and people take away Iftari, and there is nothing wrong in opening the restaurants from sunset to sunrise..

I can see that no Muslim (Mullah non Mullah included), force minorities to not eat food at all.. They aren't lynched for eating the food inside their homes.. I see here in UAE, non Muslims respect Muslims out of their own will and don't eat food, or drink water in front of us although we have told them we aren't offended..

I see that no one is forced to keep fast in Ramadan.. Heck even Muslims aren't forced..

I see that no one is forced to pray.. Muslims conveniently miss prayers and I see no police van or mobs condemning them and taking them to the mosques forcefully.

I see that non Muslims aren't required to pay Zakat.. and there are ways to avoid deduction of Zakat from your bank accounts and no one questions..

In my neighborhood in Pakistan, there are 3 Hindu families.. we pray in a mosque and the imam has been a madarrsa qualified.. He never condemned, nor forced any hindu to attend a jumma.. actually, I have seen them talking about locality issues often..

Where do we see objectives resolution corrupting the society? Can you please give evidence?

 

[Sine Nomine]

I guess I do not care about KSA for it is not the topic in this thread, no whataboutery needed.



https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2...g-drinking-public-ramadan-250-providing-food/

https://www.dw.com/en/pakistans-ramadan-laws-force-everyone-to-go-hungry/a-18579918

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/07/13/eat-at-public-places-in-ramadan-at-own-risk/



.

And you really think that these happens on ground?

 

[El Sidd]

So the forced closure of restaurants to respect Ramadhan is not an example to refute your claims?

That has nothing to do with Objective Resolution. However if Pakistan employs a religious police which goes around town forcing every Muslim of marriageable age to practice Thaum or Salah, you will find me in your ranks for human rights.

I am sorry but this is just clutching at the straws to make the fundamental document of the state somehow controversial.