There Was No Reason To Go For Only 8 New F16's:-----

[Abingdonboy]

I firmly believe that once IAF officially announce Rafael deal then PAF will start lobbying for a twin engine superiority plane in their inventory and with a major order - till than we will be just adding single digit numbers in our F16 inventory to keep things a float. For a twin engine plane, we need considerable financial resources and a bit of infrastructure overhaul so heavy Indian purchase will force Govt to have a similar deal for PAF. Till than defense budget will remain thin.

Why would the Rafale change the equation? The IAF has been operating twin engined fighters for decades (MiG-29 since the 80s) and has 272+ Su-30MKIs on order.

 

[Gabriel92]

Why would the Rafale change the equation? The IAF has been operating twin engined fighters for decades (MiG-29 since the 80s) and has 272+ Su-30MKIs on order.

PAF has not a big budget that would allow them to buy a large number of air superiority aircrafts. India will buy a large number of modern Rafale,what could Pakistan do to "match" this order ? Hum.... nothing.
People seem to forget that Pakistan has a tiny military budget.
And BTW you are right,Rafale will not change anything,India would still have the superiority in the air.

 

[Viper0011.]

Uncle, i was merely referring to the opportunity we have in American defense market, before our ties deteriorate further (which have been continuously deteriorating since 2011)...

As for "building utilitarian relationship" and "stop stealing from others", we would like to see America fulfill its promise of defense equipment(which cost us many soldiers' lives in WOT) and hold up her end of friendship by helping in Kashmir issue, before we could possibly consider them worthy of our trust in relations, especially now that we have a regional shift towards China and Russia. So before you go around lecturing us kids, make sure you have the right perspective about Pakistan's interests and stakes.

How old are you son??? I don't mean any disrespect, but you are referring to the US, and trust, and fulfilling "promises" like we see in Disney's princess movies. The US gave Mushy over $ 11 billion and since his time, the US is still paying for coalition support.....the US has provided aid to Pakistan for like 60+ years, and NO ONE comes close to giving that much aid, not even the "brothers" in the Middle East (as you guys refer to them), or the "taller than Himalaya friend China, although they are helping Pakistan tremendously, no doubt). So please, keep the rhetoric to yourself and learn the facts about Pak-US relations first..

It's not the US's fault that hundreds of billions over the past 60 years weren't used on people of Pakistan, or on growing Pakistan like the projects taking place now.

And you won't have any sanctions if the democratic system stays in place and the country grows. The US, with all it has done for Pakistan, has never been seen positively. Its time both the Pakistanis and the US, truly become honest friends and partners. A stronger, tolerant and economically prosperous Pakistan is good for the US, good for the world, good for the global economy and great for the Pakistani nation!!!

These 8 jets would be the first order, out of a larger defense deal which will materialize in the next few months. So the fact that the US is starting to give Pakistan advance tech, i a very good sign for an expanded and growing partnership.

These 8 jets were essentially requested to dedicate the 8 or so jets currently being used for FATA Ops, so that the PAF can still maintain a defensive posture in the minimum needed numbers. These 8 jets will allow Pakistan to "try" the Block 60 tech and the air-frame and get pilot trained in advance, before a larger order is placed, approved, and delivered.

 

[tarrar]

Exactly, 8 just doesn't make sense at all. The number should had been at least 20 or more. Looks like ganja was unable to fight for more numbers.

 

[junadqs]

sab drama baze hai usa ke ka pakistan russia ke terf na gya kuch arsa bad saf jwab dya ga ka nahi haa ya 1... 2 old f16 dya dya ga

 

[Mughal-Prince]

I don't trust PAF for their procurements not a bit. Please accept my humble apology if I offended anyone but I am very much into them and knows quite a lot of things inside out which I can't share nowhere.

I believe their should be an autonomous body which may design our doctrine on bases of our need and threat perception as well as the advances in technology from earlier days to recent days and looking into the countries which are actually controlling the world stage because believe me or not Pakistan has a crucial role in not too distant future which can't be seen by these Nihari Kulcha party or Mr 10% or a Sherwani sucker. We need visionary people up there.

 

[niaz]

We should not look at $20-billion FE Reserves as a lot. These may be highest ever but actual under GOP control (with the State Bank) is only about $15-billion. After the allowing for the IMF debt installments, barely enough to cover 3 to 4 months import bill.

Admittedly the number 8 is odd. One would expect at least 14 preferably 16 (one squadron). One mustn’t however forget the huge bill for Submarines; I can’t conceive of any other rationale except the lack of funds

 

[araz]

These 8 jets would be the first order, out of a larger defense deal which will materialize in the next few months. So the fact that the US is starting to give Pakistan advance tech, i a very good sign for an expanded and growing partnership.

These 8 jets were essentially requested to dedicate the 8 or so jets currently being used for FATA Ops, so that the PAF can still maintain a defensive posture in the minimum needed numbers. These 8 jets will allow Pakistan to "try" the Block 60 tech and the air-frame and get pilot trained in advance, before a larger order is placed, approved, and delivered.

How sure are you about your statement of "advanced Technology" and the fact that these will be Bl. 60 or V configuration. It would add another dimension to PAF's perrenial problem of spares so the commonality with Bl. 52 would be must with regards to engineand other parts. For me"more advanced" could well mean AIM 9X and aim120D capable. I understand that the Bl.52+ may no longer be manufactured however for PAF the commonality of parts and engines is a must.
Response appreciated.
Regards
A

 

[Leviza]

How old are you son??? I don't mean any disrespect, but you are referring to the US, and trust, and fulfilling "promises" like we see in Disney's princess movies. The US gave Mushy over $ 11 billion and since his time, the US is still paying for coalition support.....the US has provided aid to Pakistan for like 60+ years, and NO ONE comes close to giving that much aid, not even the "brothers" in the Middle East (as you guys refer to them), or the "taller than Himalaya friend China, although they are helping Pakistan tremendously, no doubt). So please, keep the rhetoric to yourself and learn the facts about Pak-US relations first..

It's not the US's fault that hundreds of billions over the past 60 years weren't used on people of Pakistan, or on growing Pakistan like the projects taking place now.

And you won't have any sanctions if the democratic system stays in place and the country grows. The US, with all it has done for Pakistan, has never been seen positively. Its time both the Pakistanis and the US, truly become honest friends and partners. A stronger, tolerant and economically prosperous Pakistan is good for the US, good for the world, good for the global economy and great for the Pakistani nation!!!

These 8 jets would be the first order, out of a larger defense deal which will materialize in the next few months. So the fact that the US is starting to give Pakistan advance tech, i a very good sign for an expanded and growing partnership.

These 8 jets were essentially requested to dedicate the 8 or so jets currently being used for FATA Ops, so that the PAF can still maintain a defensive posture in the minimum needed numbers. These 8 jets will allow Pakistan to "try" the Block 60 tech and the air-frame and get pilot trained in advance, before a larger order is placed, approved, and delivered.

Hold your horses please ...
The US gave Mushy over $ 11 billion and since his time, the US is still paying for coalition support
These 11 billions were given were a part of the deal that Pakistan will take US side and use of its bases against Taliban and Afghan Gov of that time ... WHY you forgot to mention that ?? or maybe you didn't understand the complete picture...

keep the rhetoric to yourself and learn the facts about Pak-US relations first
Facts about Pak-US relations ? there are always ups and downs in every relations .. and Pak-US relations are not immune to it

These 8 jets would be the first order, out of a larger defense deal which will materialize in the next few months.
Based on previous deal where US for no reason put sanctions over Pakistan and did not, i repeat did not completed the paid delivery of F-16s, so we as Pakistani does not have any hope or trust on US.

These 8 jets will allow Pakistan to "try" the Block 60 tech and the air-frame and get pilot trained in advance
Why sudden change of heart ? we are operating F-16s from long ago and even block 60 tech wont change the basics of how to take the best of these fighters .. This change of heart is due to the fact that Pakistan relations with Russia/ China on the next level and that is what hurting US .. admit it or leave it, its a known fact now...

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Actually the destruction caused to the roads and bridges in Pakistan while moving the American military heavy equipment is more than the 11 BILLION dollars aid.

Most of you children do not have the ability to understand and no one of your adult family members have told you so---because they did not know it either---that roads and bridges are built for certain weight limits----military equipment is heavy weight and massive usage destroys the roads.

 

[MastanKhan]

PAF has not a big budget that would allow them to buy a large number of air superiority aircrafts. India will buy a large number of modern Rafale,what could Pakistan do to "match" this order ? Hum.... nothing.
People seem to forget that Pakistan has a tiny military budget.
And BTW you are right,Rafale will not change anything,India would still have the superiority in the air.

Hi,

Paf has not made any major purchases---so they have funds available.
Our top ceiling would be at around 450 to 500 combat aircraft----. We don't need anymore---.

India has chopped its own feet---with this drama of mmrca----it has stopped it from procuring newer aircraft and older ones would be going out soon---so it will be really tough to fill in the hole---.

Plus the geography on Pakistan / india is as such that a larger number of aircraft would only be a hinderance rather.

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

Paf has not made any major purchases---so they have funds available.
Our top ceiling would be at around 450 to 500 combat aircraft----. We don't need anymore---.

India has chopped its own feet---with this drama of mmrca----it has stopped it from procuring newer aircraft and older ones would be going out soon---so it will be really tough to fill in the hole---.

Plus the geography on Pakistan / india is as such that a larger number of aircraft would only be a hinderance rather.

Well 500 most modern Fighter jets along with massive Air Defence systems are minimum requirement

 

[Viper0011.]

Hold your horses please ...
The US gave Mushy over $ 11 billion and since his time, the US is still paying for coalition support
These 11 billions were given were a part of the deal that Pakistan will take US side and use of its bases against Taliban and Afghan Gov of that time ... WHY you forgot to mention that ?? or maybe you didn't understand the complete picture...

keep the rhetoric to yourself and learn the facts about Pak-US relations first
Facts about Pak-US relations ? there are always ups and downs in every relations .. and Pak-US relations are not immune to it

These 8 jets would be the first order, out of a larger defense deal which will materialize in the next few months.
Based on previous deal where US for no reason put sanctions over Pakistan and did not, i repeat did not completed the paid delivery of F-16s, so we as Pakistani does not have any hope or trust on US.

These 8 jets will allow Pakistan to "try" the Block 60 tech and the air-frame and get pilot trained in advance
Why sudden change of heart ? we are operating F-16s from long ago and even block 60 tech wont change the basics of how to take the best of these fighters .. This change of heart is due to the fact that Pakistan relations with Russia/ China on the next level and that is what hurting US .. admit it or leave it, its a known fact now...

Too much color!!!

1: I know the deal. I also know Mushy did nth amounts of corruption. Why does his son has many millions worth of properties across the US?? Similarly he "awarded" his buddies who drank "Mushy's juice" with him. As Mushy's favorite Chef refers to the Jack Daniel's Mushy likes to drink .

The point is, the money didn't go where it needed to.....and its been the case for the past 60 years!!!

2: To avoid "sanctions", you should pay cash and put stipulations in the contract about money returned in Cash also. That was another military dictatorship regime who didn't know how to negotiate. Which is why, Gen. Raheel is a big Civilian system's fan and doesn't think a general can be a legal practitioner and a negotiator. You need people with business backgrounds for that. Which are now actually working for Pakistan!!

3: There is no "change in heart"...the US likes a democratic system in Pakistan, which now exists and the country is advancing, so the US would probably like to respect a friendly growing country's request. Tell the PAF's leadership to go buy from China. No one's forcing Pakistan to "must buy jets from the US"!!! You should be thankful that the US is willing to consider the request. With Congress's mood on Pakistan, I am even surprised they did that.

Sometimes, you don't have to be this negative. Pakistani's like to live in the past, while the progressing world is passing by fast !!!

 

[Leviza]

Too much color!!!

1: I know the deal. I also know Mushy did nth amounts of corruption. Why does his son has many millions worth of properties across the US?? Similarly he "awarded" his buddies who drank "Mushy's juice" with him. As Mushy's favorite Chef refers to the Jack Daniel's Mushy likes to drink .

The point is, the money didn't go where it needed to.....and its been the case for the past 60 years!!!

2: To avoid "sanctions", you should pay cash and put stipulations in the contract about money returned in Cash also. That was another military dictatorship regime who didn't know how to negotiate. Which is why, Gen. Raheel is a big Civilian system's fan and doesn't think a general can be a legal practitioner and a negotiator. You need people with business backgrounds for that. Which are now actually working for Pakistan!!

3: There is no "change in heart"...the US likes a democratic system in Pakistan, which now exists and the country is advancing, so the US would probably like to respect a friendly growing country's request. Tell the PAF's leadership to go buy from China. No one's forcing Pakistan to "must buy jets from the US"!!! You should be thankful that the US is willing to consider the request. With Congress's mood on Pakistan, I am even surprised they did that.

Sometimes, you don't have to be this negative. Pakistani's like to live in the past, while the progressing world is passing by fast !!!

I do agree with some of the things you have said here but you still cant see the ground realities

1 and 3- Everyone knows why Mushy came into power and by whom instructions .. so US is not as innocent as you think .. i know you will come up with blah blah blah that this is blah blah theory ... but its a truth.
There are clear indications on some leak cables , about how US people favored to work with single person then civil gov.

WOW - We should be thankful to US is willing to consider the request .. wow
What sort of Sh1t you said here ? infect US should be thankful here, for making there exist from afghanistan little bit Honorable, as far as F16 are concerned , US does need to proved its companies business and with the new platforms coming up in the market there will be less market for F16, its a business deal and that is why Reluctant Pakistan just went for 8...


2- I have nothing to say on this point , you are free to have your opinion and i dont mind that..

BTW - Why you never answered few of questions i raised ? should i take it as no knowledge on the subject ??
Questions like
ased on previous deal where US for no reason put sanctions over Pakistan and did not, i repeat did not completed the paid delivery of F-16s, so we as Pakistani does not have any hope or trust on US.

 

[Abingdonboy]

India has chopped its own feet---with this drama of mmrca----it has stopped it from procuring newer aircraft and older ones would be going out soon---so it will be really tough to fill in the hole---.

Please do not propagate outdated information. 120+ Rafales are coming along with 200 LCAs to support the 300+ (aprx) MKIs and 200 FGFAs- you don't need to worry about the IAF.