There is no unity among people in Pakistan.

[WAJsal]

There were no examples, only generic statements that the Dogras were oppressive. They exacted taxes; similar taxes were imposed on Muslims by Muslim rulers. They placed Pandits in leading administrative positions. The Mughals placed Iranians and Turanians in leading administrative positions. The military was largely Hindu and Sikh. When the military was partially Muslim, the Muslim component mutinied, ambushed Sikh and Hindu components and massacred them. Not much of oppression.

What exactly have you established?

Inncorrect, more than one first hand account. All we have, even on your side is first hand accounts of the events that had occurred. I have read in many books myself stating the hatred Dogras had against the Muslims. This being one of them, do give it a read.
In 1837, Raja Gulab Singh of Jammu was entrusted by Maharaja Ranjit Singh to suppress the revolt of the Yousafzai tribe which formed the biggest proportion of Pashtun tribes. He offered one rupee for the head of every Yousafzai man brought to his feet. He made Katuha his headquarters and hunted for Muslim Pashtun tribes. He had some of the women spared, but others were kept for Raja Gulab Singh's harem and the rest were sold as slaves in Lahore and Jammu. It was reported that this expedition resulted in the loss of tens of thousands of Pashtun rebels and thousands of women were sold into slavery.
Marriage Among Muslims: Preference and Choice in Northern Pakistan - Hastings Donnan - Google Books
After acquiring Jammu and Kashmir through the Treaty of Kashmir, Dogra rulers continued the anti-Muslim policies of their Sikh allies. The worst atrocities perpetrated against Muslims in the state came in 1863 when the Dogra ruler Maharaja Ranbir Singh ordered a major invasion of the frontier areas of Yasin and Hunza to punish Muslim rebels. 3,000 troops were commanded by General Hooshiara Singh who invaded the frontier. The Dogras took all men as prisoners and many Dogra soldiers entered the back portion of the Mandoori Hill which was full of Yasini and Hunza women and their children. Those women who were injured but not dead were burnt alive and approximately 2000 Yasin villagers were killed overall. About 5,000 Yasinis were taken back to Srinagar for forced labor and all their women were included into the harems of Dogra Soldiers.
Gilgit Agency 1877-1935Second Reprint - Amar Singh Chohan - Google Books

Source: There is no unity among people in Pakistan. | Page 14

Similar many examples.

Indians and their excitement in this thread, or any other, never get's old.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Don't be a retard. Nothing needs a reason to exist other than that it exists. Tell me, every morning you wake up do you question why you exist?

Why does Saudia Arabia exist?
Why does United Kingdom exist?
Why does United Arab Emirates exist?
Why does jordan exist?
Why does Oman exist?
Why does Afghanistan exist?
Why does Canada exit?
Why does Ireland exist?
Why does India exist?

Need I go on?

He forgot to ask what's the reason why america, Germany, Brazil, Turkey and Nigeria exist.

 

[Skywalker]

Brilliant question. What do they have in common?

Ans: Their acceptance of a composite identity that transcends ethnic or religious divide.

Something that was anciently called Bharatiyata.

No sir it's called a Sikh screwing a Hindu.

 

[vsdoc]

Why do you consider your self refugee after 1300 years? :/ Most identities in South Asia are newer then that.

Nothing of the sort.

Just two Indians having fun with each other.

You are welcome to join.

Israel fears return of Persian Empire | Page 4

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I think u have been sleeping since ages...

I just came back from Pakistan a couple months ago, you havent stepped an inch into PK.

 

[Shamain]

Trust me that story sound BS if you mean hindus did that in Pakistan before 1947.

Sighs . Okay.

While I do not condone the terms used for the professional Army. Whether it is barracked or not, its presence itself shows a need for some policing on the off chance something does go wrong. Leave aside the usual tit for tat lobbing of mortars or the claims of some mythical border action team chopping heads off that would make even the darkest editions of Frank miller's Batman look almost benign. As if somehow the only role then the IA is to play is to sit in barracks and make tea while this seemingly rock solid border is penetrated in manners that would make Sunny Leone feel virtuous.

I came to know of that incident (if its the same one i think u are referring to)over here. I dont know how authentic it is or not but iwouldnt reject it outright. When ihad googled news related to it ,there were some old links abt the protests on it in pakistani jk. So i dont think so that old a news or atleast protests wuld be fake.
Secondly, @DESERT FIGHTER comes from an army family. He knew abt it too.

There may not be the spite that the poster claims,

Wow. I had stopped writing abt incidents cuz indians used to mock them...now that we have someone who calls himself pakistani and considers those incidents as fake... idont think so iwill ever care to write abt them, whatever lil i ever do.

Still you remeber shooting of a 16 year old boy few months back just because he was a part of stone pelting protesting crowd. Pretty sure you will justify that too somehow.

As for Pakistan and the Kashmir desire, lets get this straight. The Kashmirs can hate India or carve the Ashoka wheel into their hearts. All that matters is the water the flows from Kashmir and the strategic position of the valley. The Kashmiris; men and mice alike.. come way down in the rungs of this ladder of priority.

are people of gb and jk living in subhuman conditions with pakistan?

Will you ever learn to do some research before you speak. Pakistan has around 20000 refugees from kashmir valley and perhaps jammu too (not sure abt latter), if water was all that mattered why would pakistan have taken in these people. Many are given citizenships ,some have refugee status.

Lets say pakistan's greed is water...but willl pakistan keep them subjugated and in miserable state as they are now?

Do you even understand hindu indian narrowmindedness? Recently there was an article on indian kashmiri visiting pakistan and calling it a magical land of freedom and some indians, and their secular liberal representative milspec were writing , 'keep him' ,(suggesting that pakistan shud keep him), just cuz he had a positive view of us.

In ajk there are few groups who are extremely anti india extremellyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy but they are pro independence , pro independence of entire jammu and kashmir from both the sides. Pakistan never disbanded them or shut them up.

If pakistan will stop speaking for kashmiris whether she does for water or for kashmiris .... who will raise his voice for them?
Kabhi bolnay say pehlay insan soch hee leta hai kuch.

 

[SQ8]

Kabhi bolnay say pehlay insan soch hee leta hai kuch.

Practice what you preach is all I have to say on that.

But the reality remains.

The massive rioting that was Kashmir in the 90s is gone. They are agitating, but at the same time moving to Dehli to Study. Which means that they are finding their economic progress. Why do you think the whole Baloch thing seems to be suddenly fizzling out? Because they are seeing economic uplift.

As for taking in refugees.How come Pakistan is not taking any Syrian ones? Or do you believe the Syrians to be subhumans?

Pakistan is an entity that believes in its survival, the Kashmiris have their importance vis-a-vis humanitarian reasons.But their humanitarian reasons do not outweigh or compare to the strategic importance the land itself has. Both in terms of water supply and in terms of being a route to connect to China.
In that matter, the Kashmiris hold more value than them just being Kashmiris. They are people to be persuaded for a better life and "brotherhood" because the land they stand on is important. Lets see if our "angel" ideals that those you bring would be true if tomorrow India says Take Kashmir only if you promise not to use any of the water that comes through it.

The same goes for the Balochis too. Their "Brother" status aside. That is the energy hub of Pakistan and has potential for mineral reserves. That is the value of it.

Stop consideirng yourself some sanctimonious angel. Your arguments sound like that of a child who refuses to believe that Muslims have sex to make babies.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sighs . Okay.

I came to know of that incident (if its the same one i think u are referring to)over here. I dont know how authentic it is or not but iwouldnt reject it outright. When ihad googled news related to it ,there were some old links abt the protests on it in pakistani jk. So i dont think so that old a news or atleast protests wuld be fake.
Secondly, @DESERT FIGHTER comes from an army family. He knew abt it too.


Wow. I had stopped writing abt incidents cuz indians used to mock them...now that we have someone who calls himself pakistani and considers those incidents as fake... idont think so iwill ever care to write abt them, whatever lil i ever do.

Still you remeber shooting of a 16 year old boy few months back just because he was a part of stone pelting protesting crowd. Pretty sure you will justify that too somehow.

are people of gb and jk living in subhuman conditions with pakistan?

Will you ever learn to do some research before you speak. Pakistan has around 20000 refugees from kashmir valley and perhaps jammu too (not sure abt latter), if water was all that mattered why would pakistan have taken in these people. Many are given citizenships ,some have refugee status.

Lets say pakistan's greed is water...but willl pakistan keep them subjugated and in miserable state as they are now?

Do you even understand hindu indian narrowmindedness? Recently there was an article on indian kashmiri visiting pakistan and calling it a magical land of freedom and some indians, and their secular liberal representative milspec were writing , 'keep him' ,(suggesting that pakistan shud keep him), just cuz he had a positive view of us.

In ajk there are few groups who are extremely anti india extremellyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy but they are pro independence , pro independence of entire jammu and kashmir from both the sides. Pakistan never disbanded them or shut them up.

If pakistan will stop speaking for kashmiris whether she does for water or for kashmiris .... who will raise his voice for them?
Kabhi bolnay say pehlay insan soch hee leta hai kuch.

I am glad to read your post as a response to another post by a well-known member of the forum. When Indians say something, you get into hysterics. It was amusing to see your shock when a level-headed Pakistani says something, not similar, but amounting to the same thing in terms of its impact upon you.

 

[fatman17]

Practice what you preach is all I have to say on that.

But the reality remains.

The massive rioting that was Kashmir in the 90s is gone. They are agitating, but at the same time moving to Dehli to Study. Which means that they are finding their economic progress. Why do you think the whole Baloch thing seems to be suddenly fizzling out? Because they are seeing economic uplift.

As for taking in refugees.How come Pakistan is not taking any Syrian ones? Or do you believe the Syrians to be subhumans?

Pakistan is an entity that believes in its survival, the Kashmiris have their importance vis-a-vis humanitarian reasons.But their humanitarian reasons do not outweigh or compare to the strategic importance the land itself has. Both in terms of water supply and in terms of being a route to connect to China.
In that matter, the Kashmiris hold more value than them just being Kashmiris. They are people to be persuaded for a better life and "brotherhood" because the land they stand on is important. Lets see if our "angel" ideals that those you bring would be true if tomorrow India says Take Kashmir only if you promise not to use any of the water that comes through it.

The same goes for the Balochis too. Their "Brother" status aside. That is the energy hub of Pakistan and has potential for mineral reserves. That is the value of it.

Stop consideirng yourself some sanctimonious angel. Your arguments sound like that of a child who refuses to believe that Muslims have sex to make babies.

we have experienced the negative impact of afghan refuges on our culture and economy. I don't think the Syrians want to migrate to Pakistan. majority of the refugees going to Europe are economic migrants looking for a peaceful life. don't blame them.

Baluchistan is returning to normalcy slowly but one cannot compare the situation in Kashmir to Baluchistan. Baluchistan's problems also stems from what the baluch tribal leaders have done or actually not done for their tribes. if the tribes get education and jobs elsewhere the baluch tribal leaders lose control which they don't want to obviously. the tribal leaders are filthy rich and their tribes probably the poorest people in Pakistan. having said that the federal govt has also not been fair in their dealings with the baluch.. by paying huge subsides to the baluch leaders in order to buy their loyalties has basically backfired. the baluch leaders used that money to arm their tribes with sophisticated weapons and also indulged in the drugs trade to amass more wealth. one of the bugti leaders is living in Switzerland for the last 3-5 years. how?

Pakistanis are by and large more united now-a-days than before.

a section of the overseas Pakistanis obviously have a different opinion about Pakistan. that is why they live overseas.

 

[Joe Shearer]

we have experienced the negative impact of afghan refuges on our culture and economy. I don't think the Syrians want to migrate to Pakistan. majority of the refugees going to Europe are economic migrants looking for a peaceful life. don't blame them.

Baluchistan is returning to normalcy slowly but one cannot compare the situation in Kashmir to Baluchistan. Baluchistan's problems also stems from what the baluch tribal leaders have done or actually not done for their tribes. if the tribes get education and jobs elsewhere the baluch tribal leaders lose control which they don't want to obviously. the tribal leaders are filthy rich and their tribes probably the poorest people in Pakistan. having said that the federal govt has also not been fair in their dealings with the baluch.. by paying huge subsides to the baluch leaders in order to buy their loyalties has basically backfired. the baluch leaders used that money to arm their tribes with sophisticated weapons and also indulged in the drugs trade to amass more wealth. one of the bugti leaders is living in Switzerland for the last 3-5 years. how?

Pakistanis are by and large more united now-a-days than before.

If I could be a little Bolshie, I might point out that with a single word substituted, what you have written below has ALMOST the same fit to another group hostile to its central government:

by paying huge subsides to the Kashmiri leaders in order to buy their loyalties has basically backfired. the Kashmiri leaders used that money to arm their factions with sophisticated weapons and also indulged in the timber trade to amass more wealth. one of the bugti leaders is living in Switzerland for the last 3-5 years.

Source: There is no unity among people in Pakistan. | Page 16

 

[fatman17]

If I could be a little Bolshie, I might point out that with a single word substituted, what you have written below has ALMOST the same fit to another group hostile to its central government:

glad its ALMOST and not DITTO. cheers!

 

[Joe Shearer]

we have experienced the negative impact of afghan refuges on our culture and economy. I don't think the Syrians want to migrate to Pakistan. majority of the refugees going to Europe are economic migrants looking for a peaceful life. don't blame them.

Baluchistan is returning to normalcy slowly but one cannot compare the situation in Kashmir to Baluchistan. Baluchistan's problems also stems from what the baluch tribal leaders have done or actually not done for their tribes. if the tribes get education and jobs elsewhere the baluch tribal leaders lose control which they don't want to obviously. the tribal leaders are filthy rich and their tribes probably the poorest people in Pakistan. having said that the federal govt has also not been fair in their dealings with the baluch.. by paying huge subsides to the baluch leaders in order to buy their loyalties has basically backfired. the baluch leaders used that money to arm their tribes with sophisticated weapons and also indulged in the drugs trade to amass more wealth. one of the bugti leaders is living in Switzerland for the last 3-5 years. how?

Pakistanis are by and large more united now-a-days than before.

a section of the overseas Pakistanis obviously have a different opinion about Pakistan. that is why they live overseas.

glad its ALMOST and not DITTO. cheers!

Just pulling your leg, chief. Good to read your post.

 

[suresh1773]

Without doubt discontent in Baluchistan existed from start; the first action against the Baluch nationalists was taken in 1948!

Without being unpleasant, I would comment that RAW found a fertile ground and decided to take full advantage of it. I also hold the view that Baluchi anger has some justification and that the Federal government needs to redress Baluch complaints on a priority basis

You have every right to disagree with my statements; nevertheless I am certain that RAW is exploiting the discontentment among the Baluchi as well as wrath of the TTP Commander Mullah Fazlulah by helping BLA & TTP/sectarian outfits with funds and arms.

Thanks for your reply, On one hand u write,the discontent in Balochistan started from 1948 and the Federal govt should redress Balcoh complaints on priority basis and on the other hand u write that "RAW is exploiting the discontentment among the Baluchi ". I cannot comprehend your half hippo giraffe theorey. First of all there was no RAW in 1948. What was the Pakistani govt doing all for these decades,it should addressed the Baloch problem on priority basis,instead of addressing the Baloch problem a full scale war was launched on the Balochis
Lastly we Indians even denied asylum to Braham Bugti who latter went to Geneva,Switzerland
Many of the Baloch rebels r staying abroad where they r holding press conferences,seminars
telling the whole world about the exploitation of Balochis at the hands of Pakistani army.U have Mir Suleman Dawood,the head of Royal family who stays in exile in London tell a TV reporter how the Balcohis r treated.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan is a peculiar nation, on paper, it was made to fail and was given a lifespan of only five years but not only did it survived, it thrived. It was not an easy journey by any means, we fought wars, there were floods, there was political instability, our compatriots in the east parted ways with us in less than amicable fashion, we bore the brunt of the world's largest refugee exodus, we were sanctioned and then were plagued by terrorism and yet here we stand.
Like I said, its a strange nation. The more pressed we feel against the wall, the harder we spring back. The more circumstances pull us apart, we gel closer. We smile amidst tragedy and are at peace with our pain.
There is no scholar that can explain this, it is just national character.

What a well-written post! Brilliant. Sums up the whole situation in a few lines.

I can't pretend that I like what the Pakistani deep state is up to, but I can say very simply that my heart goes out to the ordinary Pakistani that has so strong a character and so resilient a temperament.

Now if only you silly chaps had been Indian!

 

[Icarus]

What a well-written post! Brilliant. Sums up the whole situation in a few lines.

I can't pretend that I like what the Pakistani deep state is up to, but I can say very simply that my heart goes out to the ordinary Pakistani that has so strong a character and so resilient a temperament.

Now if only you silly chaps had been Indian!

Sir would you really want to be dealing with the TTP insurgency? Keep in mind that if we had been Indian, the TTP would have come part and parcel!