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The Wrong Kind of Pakistani

Meray bhai Do you even know what you are talking about ?? Let Me make it easier for you ,

The Antonym for Renaissance would be : "destruction, killing, suppression" ......

Today`s political Islam is a perfect opposite of Renaissance ....... Original Islam was not .... Have you ever tried to figure out what went wrong and why ??

Iqbal says : "Moreover, the modern man, by developing habits of concrete thought– habits which Islam itself fostered at least in the earlier stages of its cultural career– has rendered himself less capable of that experience which he further suspects because of its liability to illusion"

E
urope feared "An Islamic Renaissance" , It "created" political Islam ... (Wahhabism/Deobandism etc.) ... What you say is VIRSA of Pakistan is in reality conjecture only , that has nothing to do with original Islam ...



You really are ignorant of Our History then ......

you are misleading Pakistanis. You are making stuff up, and evading my argument., like you did last time. Why did not the European Renaissance find the 1000 years old works of Muslims and 2000 year old works of Greeks outdated ?

Let me give you an example of the VIRSA of Pakistan. The work of Hazrat Ali Hajweri rahmatuallah alayh, called Kashful Mahjub
 
you are misleading Pakistanis. You are making stuff up, and evading my argument., like you did last time.

Let me give you an example of the VIRSA of Pakistan. The work of Hazrat Ali Hajweri rahmatuallah alayh, called Kashful Mahjub

I am not making up anything dear ...... You need to read more . And I was talking about "Political Islam" ,
About Sufism : The more genuine schools of Sufism have, no doubt, done good work in shaping and directing the evolution of religious experience in Islam; but their latter-day representatives, owing to their ignorance of the modern mind, have become absolutely incapable of receiving any fresh inspiration from modern thought and experience. [Iqbal]

Why did not the European Renaissance find the 1000 years old works of Muslims and 2000 year old works of Greeks outdated ?

plz Read my previous post again
 
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there is one way out of this. In my humble opinion, the so called "liberal extremists" should simply leave. or stop propogating anything. this does not mean you have to accept any other view. Just stop being yourselves.

Then the people longing for the "real pakistan" will get to see what they asked for. This needs to happen to disillusion people from their "romance" of the "real pakistan". The Atlas holding the burden of Pakistan has to "shrug" to show who has been holding up Pakistan in tact so far.
 
Of course we did. I was merely pointing out to Dayan Hassan's blatant intellectual dishonesty and injustice to 'established historic facts'. When he blames Pakistan 'alone' for the Jihad inc, he does come off as a bigot!
Apne girahbaan main kaun jhankta hai ?
 
there is one way out of this. In my humble opinion, the so called "liberal extremists" should simply leave. or stop propogating anything. this does not mean you have to accept any other view. Just stop being yourselves.

Then the people longing for the "real pakistan" will get to see what they asked for. This needs to happen to disillusion people from their "romance" of the "real pakistan". The Atlas holding the burden of Pakistan has to "shrug" to show who has been holding up Pakistan in tact so far.

This is a simplistically bogus narrative. Take any society as an example, it took time to evolve itself. There were people on the right and wrong side of that particular historic setting. Take the American anti segregation movement for example. If Martin Luther King didn't stand up, Malcolm X didn't 'live like a man who died 20 years ago' and all of the others from the white community who supported their cause America would still be stuck in the past.

Pakistan is a new political entity but lets not forget that we are also one of the oldest persistent cultures in the world's history. Our culture time and again has stood a bulwark against anarchy. Yes we have enormous problems both internal and external though this also means this high time allows us to write our future. Pakistanis see themselves in a historic setting and any new narrative that our nation adopts has to have the ability and the flexibility to relate to our past, our struggle and sacrifices.

I am not a fan of Ali Dayan nor of Raza Rumi, nor am i against them. I want people to have the ability to speak freely without being harmed or threatened. There are other nameless folk who are struggling for a change through different dimensions, none of whom plan to 'leave' Pakistan. When things get tough Pakistanis dig in and fight, this is how we have navigated our past and will navigate our future.

Peace
 
This is a simplistically bogus narrative. Take any society as an example, it took time to evolve itself. There were people on the right and wrong side of that particular historic setting. Take the American anti segregation movement for example. If Martin Luther King didn't stand up, Malcolm X didn't 'live like a man who died 20 years ago' and all of the others from the white community who supported their cause America would still be stuck in the past.

Pakistan is a new political entity but lets not forget that we are also one of the oldest persistent cultures in the world's history. Our culture time and again has stood a bulwark against anarchy. Yes we have enormous problems both internal and external though this also means this high time allows us to write our future. Pakistanis see themselves in a historic setting and any new narrative that our nation adopts has to have the ability and the flexibility to relate to our past, our struggle and sacrifices.

I am not a fan of Ali Dayan nor of Raza Rumi, nor am i against them. I want people to have the ability to speak freely without being harmed or threatened. There are other nameless folk who are struggling for a change through different dimensions, none of whom plan to 'leave' Pakistan. When things get tough Pakistanis dig in and fight, this is how we have navigated our past and will navigate our future.

Peace


It is time - the malcom x or MLK to come to the scene in Pak. there are countries where such people have not come - and the result was a disaster. pakistan is at a precipice because moderates are not takin to streets when other moderates are attacked. There is a sinister show of strength by extremists - and the moderates have allowed it. That is the beginning of downfall - the will to fight has decreased or has been affected by the moderates.
 
Bhutto was snatched from Pakistan and the third world by forces of status quo ; something that changed the course of history for Pakistan, the Muslim World and the third world ..... But that is another story

Coming back to "Jihad Inc." , Mind you (if You have forgotten) , Pakistan was always meant to be an anti Soviet state .... The British created Jihadis , they also created Pakistan ; hanging around the Soviet neck, the "albatross" of Islam !!

I
f we read Diaries of Sir Cunningham (Governor of KPK) and the correspondence between Secretary for the state of India and Viceroy from that time , It becomes absolutely clear that when , how and why the British created "Jihadis" in KPK against the "anti God Bolsheviks" ...... :


State of Confusion II

On 1 May 1947 two Americans, Ronald A. Hare, Head of the Division of South Asian Affairs, and Thomas E. Weil, Second Secretary of U.S. Embassy in India, visited Jinnah. A detailed account of this visit was sent by the American Charge D' Affairs to Marshall, the Secretary of State. According to this account Jinnah stated that under no condition was he prepared to accept the scheme for a united and federated India. The Muslim League had decided to insist upon the creation of Pakistan:

He [Jinnah] sought to impress on his visitors that the emergence of an independent, sovereign Pakistan would be in consonance with American interests. Pakistan would be a Muslim country. Muslim countries stand together against Russian aggression. In that endeavour they would look to the United States for assistance, he added.[Venkataraman, American Role in Pakistan,p.1]

This is a variation on the old British game of hanging around the Soviet neck, the "albatross" of Islam

Jinnah was trying to persuade the United States that it was politically expedient to build an Islamic bastion against Russians. If India was allowed to remain unified then the bastion stretching from Turkey to China would be incomplete. This message was being communicated by Jinnah through every American Agent. The slogan was,


"Create Pakistan and save the western world!"

The relation between Pakistan and the so called "Free World" is much more deep than one may ever realize .... We have always served our "Masters" and those who tried to go against them were made "Nishan e Ibrat"


Jihad Inc. , Deoband Nexus etc. are all tools of the "Free World" that they use effectively against "any one" they want ...


My point is : Whoever provided the original "idea" , We provided our land , Our people and everything else under full protection of the state for all such Inc. and we are the ones who should be held responsible .......

I think if Pakistan had a good communist party things will not twisted like this.
 
But did Pakistan have no role in creating this Jihad Inc?


its is as bright as any sunny day that Pakistan proudly owned its ROLE in that STRATEGIC JIHAD OF USA against USSR.

The need of the hours is that you bharotis should stop pretending as if you dont know the role of USA and its allies in creation of mujahideen.

Period

I think if Pakistan had a good communist party things will not twisted like this.

:P our communists were mostly sharabi kababi nationalist extremists . So No thanks we dont want russian medical degrees anymore
 
its is as bright as any sunny day that Pakistan proudly owned its ROLE in that STRATEGIC JIHAD OF USA against USSR.

The need of the hours is that you bharotis should stop pretending as if you dont know the role of USA and its allies in creation of mujahideen.

Period



:P our communists were mostly sharabi kababi nationalist extremists . So No thanks we dont want russian medical degrees anymore

I am not a communist and in fact sometimes I hate communists because they are trying to block development projects.
But a communist indeed good when it comes for dealing with West countries and US imperialism.I dont project them as an ideal for governance .But society needs their influence or at least their ideas for influence.
This is why we Indians always wary to US.We dont trust them .no matter what.And that is due to socialist influence.
Sometimes I think it is good
 
I am not a communist and in fact sometimes I hate communists because they are trying to block development projects.
But a communist indeed good when it comes for dealing with West countries and US imperialism.I dont project them as an ideal for governance .But society needs their influence or at least their ideas for influence.
This is why we Indians always wary to US.We dont trust them .no matter what.And that is due to socialist influence.
Sometimes I think it is good


i am NOT speaking against Communists :) i was talking about the kind of communists Pakistan once had and these oldies are still the same though they had joined govt in different roles from different political parties.

But our communists were not communists in real sense rather nationalist extremists who were against USA in fight against USSR
 
A gritty but heartfelt read:



Ali Dayan Hasan: The Wrong Kind of Pakistani - Guernica / A Magazine of Art & Politics

The Wrong Kind of Pakistani
By Ali Dayan Hasan
April 21, 2014
On the invention of “the liberal extremist” and the attempted assassination of a friend.


I

On March 28 in Lahore, my friend of almost thirty years, Raza Rumi, journalist and much else, survived an attempted “targeted killing.” Miraculously, he emerged unscathed from the hail of gunfire intended for him. Raza is now in a secure location—outside Pakistan. He had no choice but to leave as the authorities felt no embarrassment in letting him know that they could not guarantee his life if he stepped outside his Lahore home. Some weeks later, the police “caught” the would-be-assassins who belong to the dreaded Taliban-affiliate Lahkar-e-Jhangvi. But police custody curtails neither the power of these terrorists nor the impunity with which they kill. The fact is that nobody can do anything to stop them and nobody will. Tens of thousands of our fellow citizens have already been killed by the same terrorists. On April 19, Hamid Mir, another journalist, was shot in broad daylight and survived. He too will live. But his attackers too, even if identified, will escape accountability.

I should just be grateful that my friend Raza is alive. I was. I am.

But then, to come to terms with my relief, I engaged in an act of self-destructive rebellion—foolhardy, irresponsible and potentially fatal. I went for a long drive through the streets of Lahore, alone. As people often do. As I did often until “security-related restricted movement” became an embarrassing part of my life. As Raza could have possibly, until recently, when the price of life became self-imposed house arrest or exile for him.

Raza is a political analyst, a TV anchor of late. I’m a human rights activist. My problem is, I am told, that I follow a “maximalist position” in my advocacy of basic human rights standards. I am unable to see how you can perform my role otherwise.

But as a television journalist, Raza had greater room for compromise. He could, and did, use more politic language, gloss over realities he found abhorrent, at times appease those who deserved his condemnation. But in Pakistan today, publicly arguing for relatively prosaic standards of sanity, however inoffensively, earns you the title of “liberal extremist.”

If you condemn prejudice, abuse and violence as categorically as those who perpetrate it, you are the other side of the same “extremist” coin. And the terrorist somehow is better because he is “indigenous and authentic” whereas the liberal extremist is a sinister Western Plant. This bogeyman is neither the creation of a state propaganda machine nor the murderous religious extremist. He is a creation of influential hate-mongering opinion-makers, their acolytes, apologists and understudies. It is a delegitimizing, dehumanizing term, and this villainous monster is made real by widespread social acceptance of his existence. This acceptance is no misunderstanding. It allows for a fictional place of ostensible social dignity, balance and moderation between sane humanism and nihilistic rage. It is also clearly nonsense. Unfortunately, it is murderous nonsense.

Liberal extremists love claiming they are under threat, they say. It is a hoax, pretention, paranoia, an attention-seeking device, a ploy to get donor funding. You almost want to believe it yourself. To be a fraud is easier than to adopt the lifestyle of constantly looking over your shoulder. But then it gets real. Raza’s 25-year old driver, Mustafa, did not survive the attack. Every one of the 12 odd bullets that hit him was intended for Raza. Mustafa supported an extended family of 10. Raza has elderly parents, young children—the usual web of family and responsibility that makes us all vulnerable and fearful and human.

Long, solitary drives are great for clearing one’s head.

I condemn the violent attack on Raza for what it is: an assault on freedom of expression and opinion. I condemn everything. Ad infinitum. Ad nauseam. Yet, professional engagement with violence and living with the possibility of physical harm never prepares you for that moment when it enters the very personal domain—when it is you, your family or close friends and peers that are the “breaking news” horror of the day. I am not theorizing. It’s a lesson learnt over and over in the last few years.

There is of course, a withering critique of the Pakistani state, its political cowardice, incompetence and complicity in the mayhem that is Pakistan today. The Pakistani military and the ISI built Jihad Inc in the 1980s to wage war against Afghanistan and India. They mainstreamed Islamist extremism, used it as a national security tool and eventually allowed their creation to devour Pakistani society as they looked on. The Pakistani national security state is a two-faced callous bullying monster.

There is also a counter-argument, an apologia, we know all too well. The Pakistani military and the ISI built Jihad Inc in cahoots with, and at the behest of, the United States in the 1980s. The US selfishly and myopically moved on, leaving Pakistan to fend for itself. It only returned after 9/11 to demand an unrealistic dismantling of Jihad Inc that has pitted Pakistan against itself. It is American drones that destroy Pakistan and make the Taliban butcher Pakistanis in the thousands. The US is a two-faced callous bullying monster.

There is truth in all of the above. But this is not a political analysis. It is not even a human rights critique. One of the few rights we can still exercise unfettered is the right to sadness and sorrow.

II

Raza was some years senior to me in school. We grew up during the Zia dictatorship watching a freak-show featuring the General and an arcane Islam that had nothing to do with the already Muslim lives we lived. This new Islam was as alien as the protagonist of the blockbuster movie of the period—ET.

On August 17, 1988, the day General Ziaul Haq died in a plane crash, Raza and I were together in Karachi. “For the rest of our lives, things will get better in Pakistan,” I remember him telling me. I believed my older and, certainly then, wiser friend. He absolutely convinced me that a glorious future awaited us.

And why should we not have imagined such a future? Like the child of any working professional does, we knew that the quality of our education was going to determine the quality of our lives. So, we were academic achievers. And later, we became highly regarded professionals, employable across the world. Our credentials were earned rather than inherited and were our passports to a good life anywhere. But the good life elsewhere was a distraction. Above all, we earned what mattered most—the right to a life of respect and consequence at home.

So it was inevitable that Raza preferred a public life in Pakistan to a successful and lucrative international career. Just as it made perfect sense for me to persist with Human Rights Watch for 11 years in Pakistan rather than pursuing a better paid, less stressful life abroad.

This is not a function of a crude, unthinking nationalism. Nor is it a favor to anyone but oneself. Who doesn’t want a life with family and friends close by, if a decent one is within grasp?

It is, of course, a privilege to have a public voice, to participate in the “Big Conversation” anywhere. And Pakistan happens to be our area of professional expertise. But as Pakistanis rooted in and engaged with our own culture, history, politics and religion, it is particularly fulfilling to engage in that conversation. It is also a conversation that ought to be ours to participate in with the greatest confidence and fearlessness. But it is not ours, as it turns out. Not any more.

People are killed everyday in terror attacks, or by the state. Poverty is rampant and rising. There is no electricity. Endless unemployment. Disappearances. Drone strikes. This is self-indulgent whining. Sure.

I guess that’s what liberal extremists do. For American dollars. Before they die. Or escape.

III

There is this monstrous reality that looms over everything. We gloss over it because we cannot face its immense ugliness.

The horror is not just that terrorists kill on grounds of religion or opinion. It is not just that those who stand up against this inhumanity—human rights defenders, journalists, the odd politician, even schoolgirls—face exile or death. It is not just that we, especially we who challenge murderers and torturers, are only alive at their discretion. It is also not just that the state has given up even pretending it can save us.

The tragedy is that the “moderate,” the empowered and the affluent, are brazenly, smugly complicit in the mass cull of people and voices. The insurmountable obscenity is the ease with which the “respectable” can move from offering you cups of tea to rejoicing in the hateful, dehumanizing gaze of the killer upon you. It is the dead-end where blaming the victim is an act of compassion.

If you condemn targeted killings of Shias, goes the logic, then you must surely be Shia yourself. If you are not, you are a suicidal attention-seeker. You deserve even less sympathy than the Shia who could not help being killed because unlike him, you asked for it.

Raza Rumi asked for it.

Had Raza been mowed down, his death would have been met with broad acceptance—a regrettable but inevitable consequence of being himself. Condemnation would have given way to a social consensus on suicide-by-proxy. His family would have been looked upon pityingly as the victims of his stupidity, not of the killers’ murderous rage. It hardly matters that the same besieged islands of sanity scream in protest every time. And it hardly even matters anymore how we got here.

What matters is that we are here, at this ugly place of betrayal—choosing between, or forced into, silence or exile or death. And almost everyone looks the other way. Even our friends look the other way. We look away from each other. Even those who know they could be next look away. And then they are next.

IV

Raza and I profoundly disagree on many things both personal and political. Ours is not a friendship without its fissures and tensions. I had a bad feeling about his foray into television anyway. As his TV persona unfolded, I found some of Raza’s inevitable concessions to the Pakistani media’s toxic paradigm troubling. But equally, I knew that he could only concede so much and no more. And it would not be enough. He cannot look at the world from a place of endless unintelligent parochialism, prejudice, bigotry and delusion. This is not because Raza is a Western stooge, Indian agent or liberal extremist. Nor is it because he is a paragon of virtue and unyielding principle.

He’s just the wrong kind of Pakistani—the kind that is killed nowadays.

(Ali Dayan Hasan is the outgoing Pakistan director at Human Rights Watch. The views expressed above are personal and do not represent HRW.)


a reaqlli great article but whats its intention ????

but after reading it i think most pakistanies have acepted such moral & intelectual corruption and above all such "ceaos & anarchy" as a part of there life and future

sad but true "what you sow is waht you shal reap"

trust me my heart bleeds for this misery of pakistani awaam ... god have mercy on pakistan
 
What matters is that we are here, at this ugly place of betrayal—choosing between, or forced into, silence or exile or death. And almost everyone looks the other way. Even our friends look the other way. We look away from each other. Even those who know they could be next look away. And then they are next.


well summaried and the truth its the tragedy of our lives - when it was Ahmedis turned every one looked other way knowing deep inside whats happenig is wrong - than came shias - those shias not targeted yet are looking the other way knowing whats happening is wrong , so is the case with barelvis than it will be other 70 in line to end at moderate / secular deobandis / wahabis

pretty fcked up equation
 
well summaried and the truth its the tragedy of our lives - when it was Ahmedis turned every one looked other way knowing deep inside whats happenig is wrong - than came shias - those shias not targeted yet are looking the other way knowing whats happening is wrong , so is the case with barelvis than it will be other 70 in line to end at moderate / secular deobandis / wahabis

pretty fcked up equation


... and when they come for me, there will be nobody left to help me, because I did not help those who needed it before.
 

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