The Wrong Kind of Pakistani

[Multani]

Agreed .... The answer is not a revolution but a renaissance !!

Renaissance is a very broad word. If you wish it for Pakistanis, you must explain exactly what you want in this "renaissance"

Rather than put words in anybody else's mouths, what you think? What does the evidence seem to suggest to you?

I began the sentence with "I feel"

 

[VCheng]

.........
I began the sentence with "I feel"

...... but then you continued that "others say this". Okay, so that is what you feel others say. What do you say yourself?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Renaissance is a very broad word. If you wish it for Pakistanis, you must explain exactly what you want in this "renaissance"

Renaissance of Islamic culture and ideals [words of Jinnah]

 

[VCheng]

Renaissance of Islamic culture and ideals [words of Jinnah]

Such a renaissance would require separating State from Religion.

 

[Multani]

Renaissance of Islamic culture and ideals [words of Jinnah]

The Muslims of Pakistan have a rich culture. It is recorded in Islamic history, and we have a VIRSA of hundreds ot htousands of books in libraries throughout Punjab and KPK, that are more than 600 years old, and we have teachers.

So, whatever "renaissance" of Islamic culture and ideals you are proposing, will be judged by our scholarship and academia.

This is common sense.

You propose an idea to western intellectuals, and they will then take that idea to their scholarship and academia. Soon, a reply will come to you of acceptance or rejection from them.

So, bear us.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The Muslims of Pakistan have a rich culture. It is recorded in Islamic history, and we have a VIRSA of hundreds ot htousands of books in libraries throughout Punjab and KPK, that are more than 600 years old, and we have teachers.

So, whatever "renaissance" of Islamic culture and ideals you are proposing, will be judged by our scholarship and academia.

This is common sense.

You propose an idea to western intellectuals, and they will then take that idea to their scholarship and academia. Soon, a reply will come to you of acceptance or rejection from them.

So, bear us.

Those Hundreds and thousands of Books (which are hundreds of years old , as you admit yourself) are simply "outdated" ...... This is what "common sense" suggests my friend ........

 

[iPhone]

My take on this is that, the media, the journalists have no right to criticize the religious extremists NOW when journalists and tv anchors are being targeted.

A few years back, many journalists and tv anchors, including Hamid Mir, were calling the military action against the extremists unjust. The hue and cry they raised in a collective effort gave these extremists a safe passage and a stronger representation.

Now that journalists are being targeted, all the sudden religious extremisism is a huge deal. What's even more painful is that an attack on a journalist is covered in huge details but everyday so many policemen and army personnel are killed fighting this menace and media hardly takes any notice of that. 6 killed today and see what kind of coverage they get.

If these journalists and media personnel really want the state to fight and win against extremists, then launch an onslaught against them. Declare a full blown media war against them. Mold the public opinion and force the govt into taking a real action against them. But don't be hypocrites and speak only when your colleagues are targeted, but when it's everyone else it's just a routine headline. That ain't gonna work.

 

[Multani]

Those Hundreds and thousands of Books (which are hundreds of years old , as you admit yourself) are simply "out dated" ...... This is what "common sense" suggests my friend ........

You call that common sense? Heck even the European renaissance began by translation and studying of works by Muslims and Greeks going back 2000 years

Why didn't they find those works outdated?

My take on this is that, the media, the journalists have no right to criticize the religious extremists NOW when journalists and tv anchors are being targeted.

A few years back, many journalists and tv anchors, including Hamid Mir, were calling the military action against the extremists unjust. The hue and cry they raised in a collective effort gave these extremists a safe passage and a stronger representation.

Now that journalists are being targeted, all the sudden religious extremisism is a huge deal. What's even more painful is that an attack on a journalist is covered in huge details but everyday so many policemen and army personnel are killed fighting this menace and media hardly takes any notice of that. 6 killed today and see what kind of coverage they get.

If these journalists and media personnel really want the state to fight and win against extremists, then launch an onslaught against them. Declare a full blown media war against them. Mold the public opinion and force the govt into taking a real action against them. But don't be hypocrites and speak only when your colleagues are targeted, but when it's everyone else it's just a routine headline. That ain't gonna work.

Yes, very valid sentiments. In the U N I T E D S T A T E S , if a journalist insults the army or the intelligence services, soon you would find him or her in a mental institution. I am not saying that this should happen in Pakistan, but Pakistan is not the only place it happens.

 

[Multani]

And that exactly is the point of this article .......

This article is an accusation on the general Pakistani public.

It says the general Pakistani is guilty of iniquity, hypocrisy, and derision. A collective trait.

And then this is linked to "religion" and the Pak Army meddling with khawarij in the past, and the current political state.

I can classify other countries based on their perceived traits you know

@VCheng

 

[VCheng]

This article is an accusation on the general Pakistani public.

It says the general Pakistani is guilty of iniquity, hypocrisy, and derision. A collective trait.

And then this is linked to "religion" and the Pak Army meddling with khawarij in the past, and the current political state.

I can classify other countries based on their perceived traits you know

@VCheng

Sure, please go ahead with your classification, as long as you can demonstrate relevance to the topic in this thread. Please do try to present the evidence upon which you base your classification upon sop that we objectively discuss that.

In the U N I T E D S T A T E S , if a journalist insults the army or the intelligence services, soon you would find him or her in a mental institution.

Absolutely incorrect!

 

[M. Sarmad]

You call that common sense? Heck even the European renaissance began by translation and studying of works by Muslims and Greeks going back 2000 years
Why didn't they find those works outdated?

No doubt Common sense is not that common .......
Any ways You can "stick" to your medieval literature , But don`t force others to believe in your Nonsense ........

 

[Multani]

No doubt Common sense is not that common ....... You can "stick" to your medieval literature , But don`t force others to believe in your Nonsense ........

Why didn't the European Renaissance find the Muslim works dating back 1000 years, and the Greek works dating back 2000 years, outdated? They were translating them, and using Christians from Spain, to help them understand.

You are calling the VIRSA of Pakistan nonsense? The literary history of Pakistan, which is mostly based on religious themes as nonsense? A very vulgar word.

VIRSA of Pakistan is not just Corn Bread and Sarson ka Saag.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Why didn't the European Renaissance find the Muslim works dating back 1000 years, and the Greek works dating back 2000 years, outdated? They were translating them, and using Christians from Spain, to help them understand.

Meray bhai Do you even know what you are talking about ?? Let Me make it easier for you ,

The Antonym for Renaissance would be : "destruction, killing, suppression" ......

Today`s political Islam is a perfect opposite of Renaissance ....... Original Islam was not .... Have you ever tried to figure out what went wrong and why ??

Iqbal says : "Moreover, the modern man, by developing habits of concrete thought– habits which Islam itself fostered at least in the earlier stages of its cultural career– has rendered himself less capable of that experience which he further suspects because of its liability to illusion"

Europe feared "An Islamic Renaissance" , It "created" political Islam ... (Wahhabism/Deobandism etc.) ... What you say is VIRSA of Pakistan is in reality conjecture only , that has nothing to do with original Islam ...

You are calling the VIRSA of Pakistan nonsense? The literary history of Pakistan, which is mostly based on religious themes as nonsense? A very vulgar word

You really are ignorant of Our History then ......

 

[manojb]

Pakistani intolerance has to be seen in the context of its very turbulent history in the recent past, starting from the defeat in 1971. My people have felt very insecure since then, followed by Indian nuclear terror of 1973, the soviet invasion of Afghanistan, torrent of the largest migration of refugees in recorded history, two periods of sanctions, nuclear crisis, post 9/11 invasion of Afghanistan, earthquakes, natural disasters and corruption. If these elements are factored in, we can reach a conclusion that the Pakistani nation despite all its resilience has been in a communal survival mentality. Intolerance is a product of instability and the lack of the perception of security. This situation has 'no quick fix'. It will take, confidence that we won't be invaded, a thriving economy, jobs, education, healthcare services, a functional legal, civil and governance structure to 'slowly' get rid of this venom.

who's gonna invade Pakistan? who? .. With atmi bumb and mighty Nasr?.. seems North koreans are more confident with their fire crackers than Pakistanis!

 

[Kompromat]

who's gonna invade Pakistan? who? .. With atmi bumb and mighty Nasr?.. seems North koreans are more confident with their fire crackers than Pakistanis!

North Koreans underestimate their enemies, Pakistanis don't.