The Worldwide Government

[jamahir]

A government who brings justice and opportunities for its society. I could care less if its worldwide or local government.

@jamahir I want more local/provincial govt and less centralization of power.

But I dont want to be ruled by a world govt. I want to be ruled by local govt (say Govt of London if I am living in london).

your points are very reasonable... and that is what "jamahiriya" direct-democracy ( third universal theory ) really is... jamahiriya is a simple arrangement of society... self-governance at local level by local people, where decisions are taken by consensus ( common agreement ), as long as those agreements do not conflict with common sense and justice... and everyone in that area must compulsarily participate in decison-making... credo of socialism... one who produces, can consume... so everyone in a jamahiriya locality is a political participant.... this is like the "residents welfare association" arrangements in indian towns, and i suppose, elsewhere in the world... only more scientific and democratic.

a jamahiriya city ( london, say ) is made up of such self-governing areas, a jamahiriya society is made up of such self-governing cities... and this can be scaled up to include all humanity... for administrative purposes, there may be jamahiriya regions.

the "top levels" will ensure that decisions in all jamahiriya places ( localities and cities ) are in line with socialism... the "top levels" will also ensure that contribution by one person will reach everyone, without anyone monopolizing or hoarding anything... "an open source society", if i can use the computing term.

for more simple detail... ( The Green Book - I ), section "popular conferences and people's committees".

add to all this the abolishment of money system... and like @Akheilos hinted above... and this is truly needed, the abolishment of the traditional "family" system, because loyalty must be towards all members of society, not just for someone called "parents" or "spouse" or "children" or "relatives"... all must be equally cared for, yes??... but we can start with abolishing money... that itself will remove many inequalities and oppressions.

what was achieved in the libyan jamahiriya in 1969 can be exceeded now elsewhere, yes??

what we will thus achieve is a scientific and truly communist society... it can be achieved within a few years by committed revolutionaries who use their talents, contacts and positions... i am already a participant...

I understand you consider nationalism as divisive, something that takes a lot of resource (and weapons) to maintain. I agree. At citizen level, am less nationalist, and feel more global citizen.

global citizen, citizen of the world, citizen of humanity... that is the most natural state for us...

But let me guess, all of my links are just proof of "Lies and Western propaganda", yes?

quite so... as saddam hussain said in 2003... the uno is really "united nations of america"... your links to western mainstream media... and to "amnesty international" and "human rights watch"... those two organizations are cia fronts for disinfo and were instrumental, along with unhrc, in forwarding the case for nato invasions of libya and syria, and for long they called for actions against venezuela, russia and of course, the democratic people's republic of korea.

who won the nobel "peace" prize for 2011?? who promoted the winners??

North Korea's brutality, her atrocities, are a fact, not western propaganda, but virtually universal knowledge among the community of nations

that is same as the "international community" which joined the "international committee" which "investigated" the cheonan ship sinking issue... all in that committee were already lined up against north korea... all were allies of usa... sweden, britain, japan etc

that is same as the "international community" which built up and invaded iraq in 2003, contributed to murders of two million iraqis... and hanged saddam hussain, the president of a sovereign nation.

that is same as "friends of libya" and "friends of syria" who actually were nato leaders and their ikhwaan and al-qaeda, who had invaded libya and syria.

but below are two western young chaps who admire or are not hateful of north korea...

1. ( stimmekoreas - YouTube )... nice vids, and he had plans of visiting.

2. ( Nile Bowie: Understanding North Korea )... he visited.

As much as I may find people constantly texting to be annoying, come on! How does that compare to totalitarian torture, massive famine, slave labour?

what does "totalitarian" mean anyway?? and massive famine?? did you personally go there?? or do you just listen to bbc?? what do you say about the 69 deaths ( public number ) of workers in the tea plantation in darjeeling ( eastern india ) who died because of hunger because of job-loss because their plantation company closed down??

and your point about the "famous" photo of north korea from space... your compatriot on this forum, @oldman, had said the same as you, and i had replied like this... there are photos of nighttime india taken from space... very brightly lit... does that mean india is now more developed and happier place than north korea?? you know, in the last few days, india has been declared "suicide capital of the world" by uno/who... and can the unlighted north korea not be deliberate, for security, against mass waves of bombers or rocket attacks, especially when nato satellites have been destroyed??

When did I oppose this bit "slaves of unjust traditions and war-mongering governments to continue for another 500 years??" all I said is it is far from reality...

Easier said than done....

Another dream another title

akheilos, why are you being defeatist and hostile?? you too want the society that i am talking of... which is why the op, @giger, started this thread...

you make it work by joining socialist groups... why should you sit on the fence when you know of the true system for human-kind?? why should you criticize an idea that calls for justice, freedoms and progress??

and what can't work?? christianity has existed for 2000+ years, islam for 1400+ years, soviet union existed for 80+ years, libyan jamahiriya for 40 years, bolivarian venezuela has existed for 14+ years, socialist afghanistan for 10+ years, north korea for 68 years... just random samples...

and in year 2017, just three years from now, will be the 100th anniversary of the russian bolshevik revolution...

so, what can't work??

and if the "occupy wall street" had been so defeatist... "oh, protests won't work because capitalism is big and has existed for thousands of years... oh, the occupy protests is such a bad idea."... if the "occupy wall street" people had thought like you in 2011, their protests would never have started in the first place... besides, if you are muslim then you should not be saying "it won't work"... you can call yourself muslim in 2014 because the sahaba didn't say "oh, it won't work"... instead they joined the idea of islam and initiated the spread of it all over the world... and you are pakistani... from a nation built by the strong will of one man, and his supporters... and speaking of pakistan... the national poet of pakistan is iqbal, one of the early socialists in south asia.

what you call as "dreams", were achieved, yes??

Too much of everything turns into evil....even free will...

agreed... which is why the freedoms will be brought by socialism which will take care of removing evils initially, and punishing those who do evil later... which is why every socialist society, presently and in history, has a big security system... they not only must act against internal evil but also must continuously guard against external conspiracies.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Yup Jamahir, you have definitely "drunk the Kool-Aid". Sorry, but I learned a long time ago the futility of debating those who live in a different space/time continuum. And I know if someone is saying that dozens of international agencies, aid organizations, human rights groups, and even first hand refugee accounts, are all nothing but a CIA conspiracy, then it is pointless to debate that person. It's like trying to debate someone who fervently believes they have been abducted by a UFO or who thinks that the earth is really flat. There is just no common reference for a discussion. I know you must really believe in what you do and I find it just stunningly mind-blowing that anyone who is intelligent could actually adhere to such bizarre ideas, but that is your right. The rest of the world, capitalist, democratic socialist, western, eastern, developed and developing, will continue to condemn countries like North Korea, not because of some dark CIA plot....but because they live in reality and know the reality in North Korea.

 

[jamahir]

Yup Jamahir, you have definitely "drunk the Kool-Aid".

no... i drink tea... glorious tea... earl grey, sulaymani ( hot lemon tea ) and masala... tea energizes, calms, nourishes the brain, moistens the throat and mouth... tea is food of revolution.

And I know if someone is saying that dozens of international agencies, aid organizations, human rights groups, and even first hand refugee accounts, are all nothing but a CIA conspiracy...

i gave you the account of nile bowie who visited north korea... and you simply refuse to acknowledge.

here's the lovely and well spoken "syrian girl partisan" ( mimi al laham ) describing her visit to a war memorial in damascus ( capital of syria )... the memorial was built by north korea ( dprk - democratic people's republic of korea ) to describe the 1973 war that syria and egypt fought with israel...

"The DPRK designed the war memorial, and built a lot of it, including an amazing 360 degree panorama, in the video are captured and abandoned Israeli tanks and an Israeli plane and the DPRK's Art Work."

most people would be not knowing about this.

Sorry, but I learned a long time ago the futility of debating those who live in a different space/time continuum.

have you just returned from mars?? were you in a virtual reality game all these years?? who were piloting those nato planes which contributed to deaths of 200,000 libyans in the last three years??

your usa military and its puppets militaries killed four million north koreans in the korea war ( 1950-1953 ) and devastated north korean cities... they recovered... you go tell them now to cross the 38th parallel into the make-believe glorious capitalist south korea... you may take any number of western journalists and "human rights groups".

The rest of the world

repeating that won't turn lie into truth.

 

[jamahir]

@giger @Azeri440 @revojam @jbond197 @Nihonjin1051 @Ailurus fulgens @Guynextdoor2 @bilal @INDIC @Indischer @NP-complete... your contribution needed here...

 

[INDIC]

... your contribution needed here...

This thread sounds stupid to me because the nation state are built on the perception of nationalism which binds the people living in that territory on certain basis. The idea of worldwide government sounds crazy fantasizes to me.

 

[jamahir]

This thread sounds stupid to me because the nation state are built on the perception of nationalism which binds the people living in that territory on certain basis. The idea of worldwide government sounds crazy fantasizes to me.

so you will keep fowarding the idea of india, a nation created by usa and britain for their own purpose?? remember, india wasn't born out a real freedom struggle like algeria was...

how long will you keep hating others for such a unnatural thing like nationalism?? your idea of "nationalism forever" seems silly and childish today to people with common sense as it did to the old greek philosophers or to napoleon or to many others.

please change your user-name and way of thinking... and those who don't want to be "citizen of humanity" can go to some other planet.

 

[Dubious]

akheilos, why are you being defeatist and hostile?? you too want the society that i am talking of... which is why the op, @giger, started this thread...

Defeatist? Try realist...I am only pointing out that People use certain terms to cheer when there are very far from reality...

As for hostile? I am almost certain you dont even know the meaning of that word as I was very far from being hostile...

you make it work by joining socialist groups... why should you sit on the fence when you know of the true system for human-kind?? why should you criticize an idea that calls for justice, freedoms and progress??

Many of those groups just drink loads of coffee...


Constructive criticism is good...

and what can't work?? christianity has existed for 2000+ years, islam for 1400+ years, soviet union existed for 80+ years, libyan jamahiriya for 40 years, bolivarian venezuela has existed for 14+ years, socialist afghanistan for 10+ years, north korea for 68 years... just random samples...
and in year 2017, just three years from now, will be the 100th anniversary of the russian bolshevik revolution...
so, what can't work??

When you misquote me out of context you are never gonna understand anything....

read in context and stop jumping to conclusions based on your judgement over based on what I typed...

 

[Desertfalcon]

Like I said, Jamahir, I'm sure you are a nice guy and all but it is pointless to debate you. I have experience debating people who have your kind of alternate reality view of the world and it is always a wast of time. I can post fact, after, fact, after, fact of literally dozens of international agencies, human rights groups, the United Nations, etc., all documenting in thousands of pages of investigations, interviews with eye witnesses, etc. the brutality and tyranny of the North Korean regime which is (and as much as it annoys you) acknowledged around the world....and it will all mean nothing to you as you live in this bizarre alternate universe. It's just a waste of time and in the end, it matters not.

 

[jamahir]

As for hostile? I am almost certain you dont even know the meaning of that word as I was very far from being hostile...

Constructive criticism is good...

being quite arrogant, you are... i and this thread bring you the opportunity to really contribute to humanity... and you act like you are the leader of some nation and so can advise us mere mortals on what works and what doesn't... my humble request is for you to please be humble.

Many of those groups just drink loads of coffee...

what would these two say??

carlos... ilich ramirez sanchez... famous transnational socialist revolutionary... in french jail for about 19 years now...

fatima bhutto... your co-pakistani... daughter of mir murtaza bhutto ( revolutionary from pakistan )...

 

[giger]

about nationalism : you will not loss your DNA in a bigger territory like you didn't by change from tribes .

every body can has his territory in a justify system witch is hard to make and not impossible .

the question is how to make such a big power without dictatorship , by my mind dictatorship is not caused by more power it is result of trying to stop people from being powerful and you can see it every where at democratic too .
these acts are in democratic countries hidden ,it is obvious in dictatorships(and control is a lot more than democracy)
it is not about freedom it's about power of every single mankind and laws around this power&territory and the relation of main big government's power and these people's power in this law .




I am not good in english I can just read and write short posts by help of dictionary it is very difficult to read write long posts .

 

[jamahir]

about nationalism : you will not loss your DNA in a bigger territory like you didn't by change from tribes .

every body can has his territory in a justify system witch is hard to make and not impossible .

the question is how to make such a big power without dictatorship , by my mind dictatorship is not caused by more power it is result of trying to stop people from being powerful and you can see it every where at democratic too .
these acts are in democratic countries but it is hidden ,it is obvious in dictatorships(and control is a lot more than democracy)
it is not about freedom it's about power of every single mankind and laws around this power&territory and the relation of main big government's power and these people's power in this law .




I am not good in english I can just read and write short posts by help of dictionary it is very difficult to read write long posts .

i think i understand what you said... you want power to be brought to every human... you don't want power to be the property of some government... and you are saying that so-called "democratic countries" ( like usa and britain ) are the real dictatorships... just that they do wrong things against their citizens in a hidden manner... am i right??

that is what i have writing every time in this thread... "direct democracy"... especially the "jamahiriya direct-democracy" system from muammar gaddafi's time in libya.

please read ( The Green Book - I ), section "popular conferences and people's committees"... it is written in simple english, and says what you want...

 

[giger]

i think i understand what you said... you want power to be brought to every human... you don't want power to be the property of some government... and you are saying that so-called "democratic countries" ( like usa and britain ) are the real dictatorships... just that they do wrong things against their citizens in a hidden manner... am i right??

that is what i have writing every time in this thread... "direct democracy"... especially the "jamahiriya direct-democracy" system from muammar gaddafi's time in libya.

please read ( The Green Book - I ), section "popular conferences and people's committees"... it is written in simple english, and says what you want...

I will try to read it. I am not democrat and I don't believe democracy is real hidden dictatorship it is better than dictators a lot I can't compare these but in a poor country you need something more than democracy to be rich . east europe ,latin america , center&south asia ,africa have a lot of poor democratic countries .
I am technocrat and I do not believe democracy is last and best .

 

[INDIC]

so you will keep fowarding the idea of india, a nation created by usa and britain for their own purpose?? remember, india wasn't born out a real freedom struggle like algeria was...

how long will you keep hating others for such a unnatural thing like nationalism?? your idea of "nationalism forever" seems silly and childish today to people with common sense as it did to the old greek philosophers or to napoleon or to many others.

please change your user-name and way of thinking... and those who don't want to be "citizen of humanity" can go to some other planet.

I have no idea of Algeria nor I care how other see the Indian nationalism.

 

[Zabaniyah]

I might be wrong, but I'd say that there would initially be continental-level governments. Each of the member countries have their own assemblies for their own local politics, debates, votes and decision-making. All this, while a central power broker decides the rest - particularly in regards to resources and energy distribution and networking.

This may become a reality as resources become more scarce, people wanting more, science and progress is the key, competition is intense and mistrust is always in the air.

It's too early to have any say on a "Worldwide Government".

 

[livingdead]

your points are very reasonable... and that is what "jamahiriya" direct-democracy ( third universal theory ) really is... jamahiriya is a simple arrangement of society... self-governance at local level by local people, where decisions are taken by consensus ( common agreement ), as long as those agreements do not conflict with common sense and justice... and everyone in that area must compulsarily participate in decison-making... credo of socialism... one who produces, can consume... so everyone in a jamahiriya locality is a political participant.... this is like the "residents welfare association" arrangements in indian towns, and i suppose, elsewhere in the world... only more scientific and democratic.

a jamahiriya city ( london, say ) is made up of such self-governing areas, a jamahiriya society is made up of such self-governing cities... and this can be scaled up to include all humanity... for administrative purposes, there may be jamahiriya regions.

the "top levels" will ensure that decisions in all jamahiriya places ( localities and cities ) are in line with socialism... the "top levels" will also ensure that contribution by one person will reach everyone, without anyone monopolizing or hoarding anything... "an open source society", if i can use the computing term.

for more simple detail... ( The Green Book - I ), section "popular conferences and people's committees".

add to all this the abolishment of money system... and like @Akheilos hinted above... and this is truly needed, the abolishment of the traditional "family" system, because loyalty must be towards all members of society, not just for someone called "parents" or "spouse" or "children" or "relatives"... all must be equally cared for, yes??... but we can start with abolishing money... that itself will remove many inequalities and oppressions.

what was achieved in the libyan jamahiriya in 1969 can be exceeded now elsewhere, yes??

what we will thus achieve is a scientific and truly communist society... it can be achieved within a few years by committed revolutionaries who use their talents, contacts and positions... i am already a participant...



global citizen, citizen of the world, citizen of humanity... that is the most natural state for us...



quite so... as saddam hussain said in 2003... the uno is really "united nations of america"... your links to western mainstream media... and to "amnesty international" and "human rights watch"... those two organizations are cia fronts for disinfo and were instrumental, along with unhrc, in forwarding the case for nato invasions of libya and syria, and for long they called for actions against venezuela, russia and of course, the democratic people's republic of korea.

who won the nobel "peace" prize for 2011?? who promoted the winners??



that is same as the "international community" which joined the "international committee" which "investigated" the cheonan ship sinking issue... all in that committee were already lined up against north korea... all were allies of usa... sweden, britain, japan etc

that is same as the "international community" which built up and invaded iraq in 2003, contributed to murders of two million iraqis... and hanged saddam hussain, the president of a sovereign nation.

that is same as "friends of libya" and "friends of syria" who actually were nato leaders and their ikhwaan and al-qaeda, who had invaded libya and syria.

but below are two western young chaps who admire or are not hateful of north korea...

1. ( stimmekoreas - YouTube )... nice vids, and he had plans of visiting.

2. ( Nile Bowie: Understanding North Korea )... he visited.



what does "totalitarian" mean anyway?? and massive famine?? did you personally go there?? or do you just listen to bbc?? what do you say about the 69 deaths ( public number ) of workers in the tea plantation in darjeeling ( eastern india ) who died because of hunger because of job-loss because their plantation company closed down??

View attachment 127486

View attachment 127487

and your point about the "famous" photo of north korea from space... your compatriot on this forum, @oldman, had said the same as you, and i had replied like this... there are photos of nighttime india taken from space... very brightly lit... does that mean india is now more developed and happier place than north korea?? you know, in the last few days, india has been declared "suicide capital of the world" by uno/who... and can the unlighted north korea not be deliberate, for security, against mass waves of bombers or rocket attacks, especially when nato satellites have been destroyed??





akheilos, why are you being defeatist and hostile?? you too want the society that i am talking of... which is why the op, @giger, started this thread...

you make it work by joining socialist groups... why should you sit on the fence when you know of the true system for human-kind?? why should you criticize an idea that calls for justice, freedoms and progress??

and what can't work?? christianity has existed for 2000+ years, islam for 1400+ years, soviet union existed for 80+ years, libyan jamahiriya for 40 years, bolivarian venezuela has existed for 14+ years, socialist afghanistan for 10+ years, north korea for 68 years... just random samples...

and in year 2017, just three years from now, will be the 100th anniversary of the russian bolshevik revolution...

so, what can't work??

and if the "occupy wall street" had been so defeatist... "oh, protests won't work because capitalism is big and has existed for thousands of years... oh, the occupy protests is such a bad idea."... if the "occupy wall street" people had thought like you in 2011, their protests would never have started in the first place... besides, if you are muslim then you should not be saying "it won't work"... you can call yourself muslim in 2014 because the sahaba didn't say "oh, it won't work"... instead they joined the idea of islam and initiated the spread of it all over the world... and you are pakistani... from a nation built by the strong will of one man, and his supporters... and speaking of pakistan... the national poet of pakistan is iqbal, one of the early socialists in south asia.

what you call as "dreams", were achieved, yes??



agreed... which is why the freedoms will be brought by socialism which will take care of removing evils initially, and punishing those who do evil later... which is why every socialist society, presently and in history, has a big security system... they not only must act against internal evil but also must continuously guard against external conspiracies.

@jamahir ... sorry man am sure you are a well meaning and nice guy but I dont understand much of what you say.
I hate nationalism just like you, and would want the world to be borderless. But as long as there is income/resource disparity I dont see that possible.
Globalization already made goods and services to travel crossing border. People bit has already happened for highly qualified people (successful businessmen, artists, sportsperson etc) and the trend will continue.

I believe capitalism really works, it brings the best out of us in terms of productivity and innovation. However it requires certain regulatory framework to work effectively. (like a game of football will not be as exciting with just one side playing ... or without any rules being enforced)
As society though I believe we do have room to implement certain socialist ideas, that improves our lives. I dont see why it should be an either/or scenario, UK has bits of both and it works rather well.