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The World's Bravest Nation Pakistan

150+ sucide bomb blasts in KPK.And 35 in Punjab and more then 30 in other areas from Last three years !!

Think just 10 sucide bomb Blasts in a Super power Country USA and tell me where they will be?

I dont think people will say USA the United States Of America !!

Then there will be NO states and no people Only the Unknown states of America!



PROUD TO BE A PAKISTANI:pakistan:

PAKISTAN ZINDA PAINDA BAAD !!:pakistan:

you do not have to tear down a country to be proud of yours.
 
As for the arguments by some of good governance, that is really not the context of the argument.

Good governance would be an example of a successful nation, struggling against all the odds that I outlined earlier, to get to a successful state, keeping intact our nationhood, that would be an example of bravery.

And your point being....??

We can have a lively discussion on the semantics of what is bravery and what is not, but that is not the issue here. Without a discussion of the real issue, this is just an exercise in self-congratulation. You can choose to brush your hands through your hair and say "Oh Boy! we have been through a lot lately". OR you can do something about it..

Apt title indeed, but then I wouldn't really expect Indians to either accept it, understand it or appreciate it, at least most of the Indians that frequent this forum - its an issue of a morally bankrupt and hateful mentality on their part.

If you chose to stereotype people in that fashion, that is your problem..
 
Absolutely - we could have gone down the path of Afghanistan long ago, or for that matter disintegrated as a nation ala Yugoslavia.

Again that is not a choice you can make.

Lets not forget that the West and Indians have been predicting the breakup of Pakistan for years now.

I think I have only heard predictions about Pakistan failing as a nation, whose possibility still stands firm. Nothing like Pakistan breaking up though.

Apt title indeed, but then I wouldn't really expect Indians to either accept it, understand it or appreciate it, at least most of the Indians that frequent this forum - its an issue of a morally bankrupt and hateful mentality on their part.

Struggling against hardships is courageous, yes, but to say that it makes Pakistan the bravest nation in the world - well that is too far stretched. And no, my opinions have nothing to do with my nationality.
 
Absolutely - we could have gone down the path of Afghanistan long ago, or for that matter disintegrated as a nation ala Yugoslavia.

Lets not forget that the West and Indians have been predicting the breakup of Pakistan for years now.

As for the arguments by some of good governance, that is really not the context of the argument.

Good governance would be an example of a successful nation, struggling against all the odds that I outlined earlier, to get to a successful state, keeping intact our nationhood, that would be an example of bravery.

Apt title indeed, but then I wouldn't really expect Indians to either accept it, understand it or appreciate it, at least most of the Indians that frequent this forum - its an issue of a morally bankrupt and hateful mentality on their part.

Right. There is another nation that was formed right alongside Pakistan and do take a peek over there to compare Pakistan with.

You are deliberately comparing Pakistan with absolutely failed states to think that you have done really well and pat yourself on your back.

You talk of problems with India? Do you forget that it was Pakistan who was responsible for initiating wars in the begining. You conveniently forget that Agno.

You have serious problems of Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan, you have the rest of the world chastising Pakistan over numerous issues.

Your own policies followed over the years has led you to compare yourself with Afghanistan. You could OTOH have been a model for Afghanistan to follow in terms of Human and Economic development, R&D...a simple question: Are you that model?

Yet you congratulate yourself - why? because Pakistan still exists!

And Lastly, if i do criticize Pakistan, i am morally bankrupt right?
 
Right. There is another nation that was formed right alongside Pakistan and do take a peek over there to compare Pakistan with.

You are deliberately comparing Pakistan with absolutely failed states to think that you have done really well and pat yourself on your back.

You talk of problems with India? Do you forget that it was Pakistan who was responsible for initiating wars in the begining. You conveniently forget that Agno.

You have serious problems of Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan, you have the rest of the world chastising Pakistan over numerous issues.

Your own policies followed over the years has led you to compare yourself with Afghanistan. You could OTOH have been a model for Afghanistan to follow in terms of Human and Economic development, R&D...a simple question: Are you that model?

Yet you congratulate yourself - why? because Pakistan still exists!

And Lastly, if i do criticize Pakistan, i am morally bankrupt right?

A brilliant post:tup:
 
Since when was this supposed to be a Pakistan bashing thread? Okay, a usually anti-muslim (that's what I always thought) says 'Pakistan- world's bravest nation' because what it's gone through, why the hate from Indian members? Calm down, jeez.
 
Quiet true. So many ******* problems but somehow we keep going.

What is funny is the thread's title is "World's bravest nation Pakistan"

and INDIANS are trying to debate!!!!

haha i got your point. They don't see or chose not to see the context in which it has been said.
 
I would agree that pakistan is facing really great issues... And its the brave people of pakistan who must be appreciated to stand tall in this difficult time.

But i have a few qs.

1. Except for Floods, issues like.. Extrmism,corruption, poverty..financial crisis all are 'made in pakistan' courtesy.. the policy makers.. Zardari a prime face..

So should a Nation regret these self made shortcomings.. Or feel proud that people can bear it..

Should Pakitan be ashamed if zardari is a president or feel proud that he is still being retained as a president.. By the 'brave' people of pakistan??


2. Similar issues are being faced .. And which are actually being forced on them.. By people in Iraq and Afganistan.. Dont they deserve to be called equally Brave??

3. The US support is cruicial.. If this is Gone.. Can the Brave nation Pakistan .. Really breathe which is already on Aid Ventilators and Completely Gone Economy?

I heard the Electricity Bill will rise to meet IMF/WB guidelines. Is it Bravery that every pakistai is forced to pay higher taxes and duties .. Or its a choiceless scenario.. They are forced to accept??

PS : My Persoanl fav is Japan.. The Bravest Nation that rose to Heights after Facing the Only Real Nuke Attack.
 
Right. There is another nation that was formed right alongside Pakistan and do take a peek over there to compare Pakistan with.
And until the floods that nation was pretty much even on most socio-economic indicators.

You are deliberately comparing Pakistan with absolutely failed states to think that you have done really well and pat yourself on your back.
No, I am pointing out that how nations with similar, and in some way lesser issues, have collapsed in many ways. Again, in terms of socio-economic indicators, the comparisons remain with India, and will be skewed going forward because of the floods. Otherwise international institutions indicated that Pakistan's poverty was less than half of India's in 2008-09.
You talk of problems with India? Do you forget that it was Pakistan who was responsible for initiating wars in the begining. You conveniently forget that Agno.
That is a typically dishonest canard bandied about all the time - India invaded Junagadh over a month after the State had acceded to Pakistan, and before the Tribes entered the Princely State of Kashmir (not India). And it was India that instigated war in 1971 by arming and supporting terrorists that committed a genocide of non-Bengalis and Pakistani supporters in East Pakistan, resulting in the brutal crackdown of the State against them, and then used that to invade Pakistan.

Perhaps you should stop lying so much and see where it takes you ...
You have serious problems of Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan, you have the rest of the world chastising Pakistan over numerous issues.
And that indicates yet another challenge the Pakistani nation is dealing with.
Your own policies followed over the years has led you to compare yourself with Afghanistan. You could OTOH have been a model for Afghanistan to follow in terms of Human and Economic development, R&D...a simple question: Are you that model?
Absolutely we are that model - most comparisons on socio-economic indicators in Pakistan continue to be with India, and as I pointed out, until the floods those indicators were largely the same.

Yet you congratulate yourself - why? because Pakistan still exists!
No, because it has done much more than exist, and has a significant, industrial, technological, manufacturing and agricultural base to provide for its people - enough for Pakistan's poverty rate to have been half of India's in 2008-09, despite all the problems it has had to face.
And Lastly, if i do criticize Pakistan, i am morally bankrupt right?
No, you are morally bankrupt because you lie, distort history and events and support the illegal occupation of Kashmiris.
 
I would agree that pakistan is facing really great issues... And its the brave people of pakistan who must be appreciated to stand tall in this difficult time.

But i have a few qs.

1. Except for Floods, issues like.. Extrmism,corruption, poverty..financial crisis all are 'made in pakistan' courtesy.. the policy makers.. Zardari a prime face..

So should a Nation regret these self made shortcomings.. Or feel proud that people can bear it..
A nation can do both...
Should Pakitan be ashamed if zardari is a president or feel proud that he is still being retained as a president.. By the 'brave' people of pakistan??
The national discourse over the GoP indicates quite clearly what Pakistanis think of Zardari, as you know quite well. And you should also know that he was not elected by the people of Pakistan, but came in through the backdoor after promising that he would not run for political office during the PPP election campaign.

And you should also know that there are few constitutional avenues available to the people of Pakistan to remove Zardari until the next elections.
2. Similar issues are being faced .. And which are actually being forced on them.. By people in Iraq and Afganistan.. Dont they deserve to be called equally Brave??
When were Iraq and Afghanistan impacted by floods affecting 20 million people?

3. The US support is cruicial.. If this is Gone.. Can the Brave nation Pakistan .. Really breathe which is already on Aid Ventilators and Completely Gone Economy?
Actually yes, many people would argue that the 'brave nation' can indeed survive without 'aid ventilators', given the correct economic policies are implemented.
I heard the Electricity Bill will rise to meet IMF/WB guidelines. Is it Bravery that every pakistai is forced to pay higher taxes and duties .. Or its a choiceless scenario.. They are forced to accept??
It would be an illustration of yet another challenge being faced down by the people of Pakistan wouldn't it.
PS : My Persoanl fav is Japan.. The Bravest Nation that rose to Heights after Facing the Only Real Nuke Attack.
Both Germany and Japan had reconstruction subsidized heavily by the West and with most of their defence taken over by the West, had little to worry about in terms of external threats and could dedicate large amounts of resources to other sectors because of that.

And I would wager that Germany and Japan did not have to deal with 20 million people in each country, and the associated homes, businesses and agriculture, affected the way the floods have affected Pakistan either. Not to mention that the war ended in Germany and Japan - it is still ongoing in Pakistan.
 
I would agree that pakistan is facing really great issues... And its the brave people of pakistan who must be appreciated to stand tall in this difficult time.

But i have a few qs.

1. Except for Floods, issues like.. Extrmism,corruption, poverty..financial crisis all are 'made in pakistan' courtesy.. the policy makers.. Zardari a prime face..

So should a Nation regret these self made shortcomings.. Or feel proud that people can bear it..

Should Pakitan be ashamed if zardari is a president or feel proud that he is still being retained as a president.. By the 'brave' people of pakistan??


2. Similar issues are being faced .. And which are actually being forced on them.. By people in Iraq and Afganistan.. Dont they deserve to be called equally Brave??

3. The US support is cruicial.. If this is Gone.. Can the Brave nation Pakistan .. Really breathe which is already on Aid Ventilators and Completely Gone Economy?

I heard the Electricity Bill will rise to meet IMF/WB guidelines. Is it Bravery that every pakistai is forced to pay higher taxes and duties .. Or its a choiceless scenario.. They are forced to accept??

PS : My Persoanl fav is Japan.. The Bravest Nation that rose to Heights after Facing the Only Real Nuke Attack.

Listen;
you can carry on with your clever comments for as long as you want to;
it is not going to make any difference whatsoever.
We have displayed resilience and we are more and more aware of where the problem is.

The ONLY nightmare you should be having is ... WHEN Pakistan comes out of this mess no amount of armour on any country's panties is going to guarantee safety.

THAT my dear friend is the real message here.
 
Hopefully, atleast after this article, our esteemed mods may stop taking silly potshots at the Indian-born editor of Newsweek!
 
The Bravest Nation in the World

In an unending crisis, there is hope and salvation yet for Pakistan.


In Pakistan there is the anguished introspection and self-comforting, posturing, and handholding that only natural disasters on the scale of the recent floods can inspire. In makeshift camps that have come up in the middle of roadway medians, at air bases flying impossible rescue missions, at corner shops, and on television, God seems to be on everyone’s mind.

While the country’s volatility, militancy, and nuclear capacity certainly pose a geopolitical risk, a lot has changed since NEWSWEEK called Pakistan the world’s most dangerous nation three years ago. The qualities of mercy, forgiveness, and grit—those staples of the God-fearing—have risen above other longstanding, even pathological, problems and come to define the nation of late. The seemingly inexhaustible capacity of Pakistanis to forgive themselves, and each other, gives them the sense of purpose and selflessness to journey on—and provides the country with its little-understood strength.

No one knows forgiveness quite like President Asif Ali Zardari. After the assassination of his wife, former prime minister Benazir Bhutto, he shouted down angry supporters who demanded the secession of Sindh province, Zardari and Bhutto’s home, from Pakistan.

He has kept intact his rancorous but ultimately peaceful relationship with Nawaz Sharif, another twice-elected prime minister, who in the 1990s had ordered Zardari’s arrest and torture. For a brief period two years ago, Zardari was the country’s most popular man, and he was overwhelmingly elected president. He has now returned to being one of the country’s most reviled, especially after his tone-deaf tour of France and England while Pakistan was being devastated by floodwaters. Zardari is now compensating with aggressive compassion, touring affected areas dressed in a dark shalwar kameez with a Sindhi cap and somber expression, instead of the suit and smile he normally wears.

Because of their numbers and capacity for withstanding abuse, Zardari and his Pakistan Peoples Party are in alliance with every major political party—including Sharif’s Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz—in all elected assemblies in the country. This big-tent approach has helped calm tensions in the smaller provinces, where alienation often manifests as violence toward the state. The rancorous coalition predicated on forgiveness has yielded some big wins for Pakistan’s democracy. In April the near-unanimous passage by Parliament of the 18th Amendment to the Constitution, which weakened the president’s powers—notably, nullifying that office’s right to dissolve Parliament—coupled with an unexpected national revenue-sharing agreement among the country’s four provinces, led Zardari to remark, “There is acceptance of everybody’s political position and rights, and it shows a great maturity that I feel the democratic forces in Pakistan have achieved.”

More than two years after their return to greater national relevance, Zardari’s and Sharif’s parties seem to have broken the claw-and-kill cycle that once marked their relations. The old tensions still simmer just below the surface, but the parties have come together when it’s mattered most, like they did for passage of the 18th Amendment. Neither Zardari nor Sharif has ever been accused of caring too much for the country or being unimpeachably honest. Sharif has come close on several occasions but always stopped short of calling for the ouster of the ruling party. Last year Zardari dismissed Sharif’s government in the Punjab, and Sharif was also briefly detained.


The overthrow of any government is impossible without the endorsement of the Army, which continues to call the shots on foreign policy and national security. The Army runs Pakistan’s largest corporate empire. It is in every line of business, including hairdressing.

And while it is the country’s only truly egalitarian organization, where pluck ensures social advancement and the fulfillment of the Pakistani dream, its growth has come entirely at the expense of other institutions and has starved public-sector development.

Each time it has assumed power, the country has lost ground—literally and metaphorically—starting with the handing over to China of a part of Kashmir in 1963.

The petrodollar- and U.S.-funded Afghan jihad brought down the Soviet Union but left Pakistan awash with the militancy the Army once fostered, and is battling today partly as atonement.

Under Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the Army has consciously been working to redeem itself by overt displays of professional, apolitical conduct. It’s been given a fillip by its operations against the Taliban in Swat and South Waziristan, its handling of the refugee crisis from Swat, and the rescue and relief efforts after the floods. But by its outré patriotic outrage last year over U.S. aid—and the behind-the-scenes pressure on the Zardari’s government to restore the unconstitutionally dismissed Iftikhar Chaudhry as the country’s chief justice—it remains engaged in politics, if only to protect its own interests (which it sees as interchangeable with national interests).

Military and civilian autocrats have always been able to bend the judiciary to suit their wishes. This changed in 2007 when Pervez Musharraf, the last of the country’s four military rulers, tried to fire Chaudhry because of his growing independence. When Chaudhry, who had sworn an oath of allegiance to the Musharraf administration in 2000, refused to back down, the lawyers’ movement was born.

The movement—an unprecedented, largely peaceful nationwide mobilization of lawyers, civil-society activists, and political parties—was fueled by Chaudhry’s everyman heroism and permanently weakened Musharraf. Chaudhry was reinstated by his Supreme Court peers in July 2007 but put under house arrest four months later when Musharraf imposed emergency rule. The chief justice was restored to office again in March 2009. Today the Supreme Court under Chaudhry is an equal-opportunity offender, and in reclaiming its jurisdiction, its zeal has sometimes been misplaced. (For instance, the court struck down the amnesty order issued by Musharraf that led to the return of both Bhutto and Sharif. In the detailed judgment, the court excoriates corrupt, self-loathing elites as well as the Army. The court is currently hearing cases that could bring down Zardari. But Chaudhry knows that removing Zardari will be messy and that the ensuing confusion could destroy the court.)

The lawyers’ movement inspired by Chaudhry’s defiance would not have been possible without the activism of the press. Pakistan has more than 60 cable channels and, despite an occasional kerfuffle with the government, the fiercely vocal media remain sufficiently powerful to prevent any meaningful defamation laws from being legislated. Absent such laws, claims of freedom of expression by the media will continue to be an excuse for their excesses. Even if they are sometimes selective and hysterical, the media’s scrutiny of politicians—who were previously accountable only to the Army—is good for Pakistani democracy. A television commentator excoriated Sharif’s government in Punjab for providing taxpayer money to the philanthropic arm of the local Qaeda affiliate Lashkar-e-Taiba. Pakistani TV channels are not perfect—until recently, many networks glorified terrorists, even referring to killed militants with honorifics—but they are helping to modernize the nation’s politics.

What’s more, tolerance for violence is abating. National revulsion at the assassination of Bhutto; the Taliban’s overreach in the Swat Valley and their merciless public flogging of a 16-year-old girl (caught on video); and the spate of suicide bombings in urban centers turned 80 percent of Pakistanis strongly against suicide attacks, according to a recent poll by the Pew Research Center. The limited aid work being done by front organizations for militant groups in flood-affected areas will, at least temporarily, help restore their public image, but the poll is a clear sign that Pakistanis are fed up with militancy.

Pakistanis have a been-there, done-that wariness of political experimentation, and they’ve settled on representative democracy as the solution. Citizens have repeatedly rejected the artificial strictures placed by military rulers on political figures like Bhutto and Sharif by voting them in. The political resurrections of Zardari and Sharif are not for lack of options; these are just who the people want to govern them.

Tensions among the government, Army, judiciary, and media are new and healthy for Pakistan. Each institution tests boundaries now and then, but they tend to back down when overstepping might cause civil strife. Each institution sometimes commits overreach in order to achieve the acceptable middle ground that it had quietly and actually always sought. (For instance, allies of the Army first said Pakistan should reject all American aid conditioned on civilian control of the military, but once politicians had promised the generals considerable autonomy, they backed down and Pakistan got its cash.) From these tensions, an uneasy equilibrium of tolerance and forgiveness has emerged. This equilibrium should last, and be preserved, at least until 2013, when Zardari, Chaudhry, and Kayani all complete their terms in office.

Social and political activism, discouraged under military rule, is back, fueled by modern platforms like Facebook. Unlike protests in the U.S. and Europe against the Iraq War, street demonstrations in Pakistan tend to yield results, as they did with Judge Chaudhry’s restoration. This sense of empowerment is amplified and assisted by the press—and it is not limited to politics: students and civil-society activists undertook one of the largest humanitarian relief operations in Pakistan’s history after the 2005 earthquake. Similar fervor is on display as Pakistan faces the aftermath of the floods.

Politicians will make mistakes. But regret, says Zardari, is an indulgence. “Life has so many regrets, you can’t even start,” he told NEWSWEEK PAKISTAN. “But then you forgive yourself, accept the fact that you were wrong, and go on.” That’s a lesson Pakistan knows well.

Ahmed is the editor of NEWSWEEK PAKISTAN. This is adapted from his cover story for the magazine’s first issue.


http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/16/despite-crises-pakistan-is-the-bravest-nation.html
 
Pakistan have faced adversity after adversity, but they have stood strong, optimistic that they would turn the tide, and today MashAllah, Pakistan is stronger than it has ever been in its history. Despite the incompetent governments in the past, the country has faced all challenges when it could have disintegrated easily, and has become stronger after every challenge. Pakistan can hopefully expect a very bright future because of the strength and resilience of the nation, the people of Pakistan. I'm so proud of Pakistan, and so proud of my Pakistani roots and everything Pakistan. Ordinary Pakistanis love Pakistan more than they love themselves, and are willing to make any sacrifice for it, but aren't jingoistic in their love like "some other nations" are...
 

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