The West Has Lost The Middle East

[C130]

whether intentional or not.

the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the toppling of government like Libya and the attempt on Syria has created such a vacuum of chaos that the West can't fill nor it's Sunni neighbor that it has all been given it to Iran and Russia.


now the West has turned it's back on the Kurds which doesn't surprise me since the West says one thing and does another at the end, and I believe Turkey is a huge reason for this as well, but let's ignore that Turkey and Israel are both giving aid and shelter to IS and Al-Qaeda our sworn enemies.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pyd-kurds-wont-invited-syria-talks-riyadh-opponents-083539269.html

the West has betrayed the Kurds. If I was the Kurds I would drop the West for Russia,Iran,Syria alliance. the Kurds are fighting for their family,land, and freedom. I think it would only be befitting when IS is wiped off the face of the Earth that Kurds get their own country called Kurdistan stretching across 3 countries Syria,Iraq, and Iran.

and the West can't do a thing to stop it without causing WW3.


now with the power vacuum and chaos left in Iraq and Afghanistan is where Iran is stepping in and taking over!!

Trump was right as he has been for years on such issues concerning the Middle East

http://globalnews.ca/video/2057339/...aking-over-iraq-isis-building-hotels-in-syria

 

[flamer84]

What was given to Iran and Russia ?

Russia is wasting money in Syria because it needs the Tartus base but,more importantly,it needs Syria in its camp for stopping ME gas pipelines to Europe.

Iran is in Syria because of its power struggle with Saudia Arabia/Turkey but they are only a momentarily ally of Russia because Iran also needs to sell oil/gas to Europe for its economic prosperity and that doesn't suit Russia.

Are you seriously about the Kurds ? First of all they're not that romantic picture we're bombarded in here with,even in Turkey they're the illiterate/empoverished/backward class,most criminl organisations importing drugs in Europe are Kurd and even if they were the galant heroes how the hell would it help Europe to dismantle Turkey ,a viable ,functioning nation defending our eastern flank and create power vacuum just to create a state for the Kurds ? Do you think that snapping fingers and carving territories still makes nations nowadays ? That would just throw the ME in further chaos .Further,the Kurds slaughtered Christians in the ME like no one else in the 20th century and now they're posing as some democracy,humanitarian people to gullible Westerners like you who can't see through propaganda of Kurd women with AK in hands "killing ISIS in droves"-lol

And i'm saying all of this as a huge anti Erdogan man but,in the end,one has to use his brain.

 

[C130]

What was given to Iran and Russia ?

Russia is wasting money in Syria because it needs the Tartus base but,more importantly,it needs Syria in its camp for stopping ME gas pipelines to Europe.

Iran is in Syria because of its power struggle with Saudia Arabia/Turkey but they are only a momentarily ally of Russia because Iran also needs to sell oil/gas to Europe for its economic prosperity and that doesn't suit Russia.

Are you seriously about the Kurds ? First of all they're not that romantic picture we're bombarded in here with,even in Turkey they're the illiterate/empoverished/backward class,most criminl organisations importing drugs in Europe are Kurd and even if they were the galant heroes how the hell would it help Europe to dismantle Turkey ,a viable ,functioning nation defending our eastern flank and create power vacuum just to create a state for the Kurds ? Do you think that snapping fingers and carving territories still makes nations nowadays ? That would just throw the ME in further chaos .Further,the Kurds slaughtered Christians in the ME like no one else in the 20th century and now they're posing as some democracy,humanitarian people to gullible Westerners like you who can't see through propaganda of Kurd women with AK in hands "killing ISIS in droves"-lol

And i'm saying all of this as a huge anti Erdogan man but,in the end,one has to use his brain.

we wasted 2 trillion+ dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan it'll have cost us about 6 trillion in the coming decades, and now Iran and Russia are taking over. they will stabalize the entire region. they'll get the oil and the reconstruction contracts, and they'll have politicaly and militarily sway over the governments put in charge. it's very humuilating for the west


and just look at this map

one giant coordinator that Iran has control of.


forget the CPEC this could be the CAIISC


and as for the Kurds they deserve their own sovereign country. just look at them they fight while everyone flees to Europe or to joins IS.


victor go the spoils.

 

[flamer84]

we wasted 2 trillion+ dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan it'll have cost us about 6 trillion in the coming decades, and now Iran and Russia are taking over. they will stabalize the entire region. they'll get the oil and the reconstruction contracts, and they'll have politicaly and militarily sway over the governments put in charge. it's very humuilating for the west


and just look at this map

one giant coordinator that Iran has control of.


forget the CPEC this could be the CAIISC


and as for the Kurds they deserve their own sovereign country. just look at them they fight while everyone flees to Europe or to joins IS.


victor go the spoils.

The West still has/signs billions of contracts in the ME.Even Iran is ligning for Western products,i see Airbus on the table not Tupolev.Just because Russia sells some stuff here and there doesn't mean "it took over"....that's far from reality,heck,the instability brought tens of billions only in weapons contracts to Western countries.You're making stuff up.

Ok,now for your bright ideea of giving the Kurds a country from Irak,Iran,Turkey.How would you do it Einstein ? We can see it in Irak but do you think that giving them some MANPADS,ATGM's,SH vehicles,mortars,machine guns wil give them the winning card against Iranian/Turkish militaries ? Those 2 would come at them guns blzing.The Kurds can't win.That just leaves one single option....full blown Western intervention against Iran/Turkey.Are you advocating war on Iran and Turkey just to give the Kurds a state ? LOL.....Face it dude,you have no clue of what you're talking about ,it hurts my eyes just reading your stuff.

 

[-SINAN-]

and as for the Kurds they deserve their own sovereign country. j

If you are talking about carving Turkey for Kurdistan...well good luck. Nobody has been able to defeat us in Anatolia for a millennium and we crushed more than 30 Kurdish uprisings.

Oh Turkish Youth!

Your first duty is to preserve and defend forever Turkish independence and the Turkish Republic.

This is the only foundation of your existence and of your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure.

In the future, too, there will be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If one day you have to defend your independence and your Republic, you will not tarry to weigh the circumstances before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may be extremely unfavorable. The enemies nursing designs against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. It may come to pass that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland will be occupied, all its shipyards captured, all its armies dispersed, and every part of the country invaded. And what is sadder and graver than all these circumstances is that the people in power inside the country may be blind, misguided. They may even be traitors. The men in power may join their personal interest to the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted.

Oh, Child of Turkey's future, even in these circumstances it is your duty to save Turkey's independence and the Turkish Republic.

You will find the power you need in the noble blood in your veins.

You won't be able to carve a Kurdistan out of Turkey without completely destroying Turkey and killing the Turkish people as, we are going to fight until the last man like we did in the last 1000 years.

 

[ultron]

Russia is on a bloody rampage in Syria. Kill ratio is like 1000000 to 0. Crazy. Total payback for Afghanistan. Technology these days. Incredible.

 

[C130]

If you are talking about carving Turkey for Kurdistan...well good luck. Nobody has been able to defeat us in Anatolia for a millennium and we crushed more than 30 Kurdish uprisings.

Oh Turkish Youth!

Your first duty is to preserve and defend forever Turkish independence and the Turkish Republic.

This is the only foundation of your existence and of your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure.

In the future, too, there will be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If one day you have to defend your independence and your Republic, you will not tarry to weigh the circumstances before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may be extremely unfavorable. The enemies nursing designs against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. It may come to pass that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland will be occupied, all its shipyards captured, all its armies dispersed, and every part of the country invaded. And what is sadder and graver than all these circumstances is that the people in power inside the country may be blind, misguided. They may even be traitors. The men in power may join their personal interest to the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted.

Oh, Child of Turkey's future, even in these circumstances it is your duty to save Turkey's independence and the Turkish Republic.

You will find the power you need in the noble blood in your veins.

You won't be able to carve a Kurdistan out of Turkey without completely destroying Turkey and killing the Turkish people as, we are going to fight until the last man like we did in the last 1000 years.

funny how I never mentioned Turkey, but Syria,Iraq and Iran. I know at least Turkey and Sultan Erdogan has aspirations for a new Ottoman empire. shame Syria,Russia,Kurds,Iraq,Iran are preventing that.

 

[T-72M1]

if by west you mean the west's traditional allies like the Saudi royals, Qatar royals etc then yes, they're losing, losing in Syria, Iran is rising and will be the regional hegemon with greater influence in Iraq. The region's being reshaped, and the power balance is tilting away from the US-Saudi nexus.. and that's a good thing.

 

[Yaduveer]

West has not lost but left the Middle East to its fate after shale gas revolution in US and Russian gas to Europe.

 

[-SINAN-]

funny how I never mentioned Turkey, but Syria,Iraq and Iran.

You said this.

and as for the Kurds they deserve their own sovereign country.

What should i suppose to think ? We have the biggest Kurdish population. Yeah, maybe they deserve their own country. But these lands belong to us historically. We exchanged Shia Turkmens with Sunni Kurds centuries ago with Safavids and settled them in south-eastern anatolia. That land was Ottoman Empire's, now Turkey's. It's something like all the latino immigrants in the south US, should have their own sovereign country.

I know at least Turkey and Sultan Erdogan has aspirations for a new Ottoman empire. shame Syria,Russia,Kurds,Iraq,Iran are preventing that.

Yeah....the neo-Ottoman conspiracy theory. We didn't involved in ME matters for decades. Now, Turkey began to take some initiatives, (and nothing compared to Iran or Saudi Arabia) everybody started scream "Ottomans are coming back."

 

[JanjaWeed]

Less dependency on middle east oil means less importance to the Middle East. Middle East = OIL. No (or less) requirement of oil = no (or less) requirement of middle east!

 

[mpk1988]

The thing is the west no longer finds it that worthwhile to get involved in the middle-east. They will just provide some lackadaisical support to their traditional allies but avoid troops on ground etc. I mean.. I think they are slowly withdrawing because they know a huge conflict in the middle east and other upheavals are inevitable.. Also, the world switching to renewable power, other sources of oil etc makes them less dependent on the middle east too..

 

[flamer84]

if by west you mean the west's traditional allies like the Saudi royals, Qatar royals etc then yes, they're losing, losing in Syria, Iran is rising and will be the regional hegemon with greater influence in Iraq. The region's being reshaped, and the power balance is tilting away from the US-Saudi nexus.. and that's a good thing.

How is the region being reshaped ? Syria was not a Western ally and now it's a pit where Russians throw their every shrinking finances .The US has far more influence in Irak then pre 2003 and all the Gulf allies are safe and sound,keeping the oil prices down (and with them hammering the Russians) and financing a costly war which engulfs more and more Russian resources,draining it even more.

 

[T-72M1]

How is the region being reshaped ? Syria was not a Western ally and now it's a pit where Russians throw their every shrinking finances .The US has far more influence in Irak then pre 2003 and all the Gulf allies are safe and sound,keeping the oil prices down (and with them hammering the Russians) and financing a costly war which engulfs more and more Russian resources,draining it even more.

by reshape I meant that the balance of power is tilting away from the Saudis with the emergence of Iran.

In Syria, the SAA have made significant advances since the Russian intervention while Saudi and Turkish etc backed jihadists have taken a beating.

In Iraq the US has far less influence now than during the occupation, they're Shia majority so after the US introduced democracy, they voted on sectarian lines and they've grown closer to Iran and Russia. Low oil prices isn't some gulf states conspiring to drain Russia, it's hurting everyone:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...axing-people-for-the-first-time-a6768206.html

The west, as the OP says, hasn't lost anything, it's just the regional dynamics in the ME are changing.

 

[New Resolve]

Whats left there to loose, pretty much all destroyed other then GCC and Iran.