The USA has classed MQM as a "Tier 3 terrorist" organization

[Jf Thunder]

HAHAHAHAHA

 

[Mav3rick]

Why Altaf hussain wrote a letter to british government and offered MQM services to western powers ?

My opinion? If he did write that letter then I consider it an act of treason.

 

[Bratva]

My opinion? If he did write that letter then I consider it an act of treason.

"IF" is irrelevant when Brits confirmed it themselves and letter was on MQM site itself

 

[Musafir117]

Should be classed as a Terrorist organization. No tiers.

PDF think Tank lol can't stop laughing, PDF please please please lol ahh ok Think Tank lol someone help me lol Think Tank lol

 

[batmannow]

Should be classed as a Terrorist organization. No tiers.

Hume then no 1 , will be for CIA? What you say? No?

 

[Mav3rick]

"IF" is irrelevant when Brits confirmed it themselves and letter was on MQM site itself

If is not irrelevant when one considers the 'context', 'proof' as well as the 'reasons'! Unfortunately, all are beyond your grasp.

 

[Kabira]

Property prices shoot up in Islamabad and Rawalpindi - thenews.com.pk

Your words show that you have never really left Karachi. You need to travel more my friend. Salt range area of Punjab/Potohar is a resource rich area. Pakistan's cement industry relies almost exclusively on the gypsum extracted from salt range. Khewra salt mines are one of the largest salt mines in the world, which feeds you namak haram people with cheap salt for dinner. Attock oil fields are one of the few discovered oil fields of Pakistan. Now oil fields have also been discovered in Jhelum. Salt range is also full of low quality coal used in brick kilns around the country. You don't hear about Punjab's resources, because we don't bitch complain like other ethnicities in Pakistan.

Another exemple of Punjab resources

German firm to explore iron ore in Chiniot-Rajwa, Punjab

 

[Jaanbaz]

USA supports and funds Islamist terrorists all over the world. Finally an organisation has risen up for middle class and is anti Mullah. Of coruse USA will protect its mullah dogs.

Jamate Islami, Al-Qaida, ISIS and Taliban all serve the purpose of USA. Three of them were funded by USA. USA should mind its own business and no get involved in siding with Islamist against peaceful and moderate Pakistanis.

 

[Bratva]

If is not irrelevant when one considers the 'context', 'proof' as well as the 'reasons'! Unfortunately, all are beyond your grasp.

As expected. Teflon argument. Mystifying the simple incident and pulling reasons and proof out of thin air to defend something that is akin to whoring MQM to western powers which is btw well within my grasp.

Unless, you are to defend that act, than it is perfectly understandable, your deep sympathies with tier 3 terrorist party has made you blind and reasoning with you is like "Bhens kai agai been bajana"

 

[alimohsan52]

P.S. For those who actually have a brain, and the ability to use it:

On February 13, 2008, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (“USCIS”)
denied Ahmed’s application on the basis that he was a current member of the MQM-A.2
Compl. Ex. 5, at 3. UCSIS found that the MQM, and its factions the MQM-A and MQM-H, met the
contemporary definition of an undesignated or “Tier III” terrorist organization under the
Immigration and Naturalization Act (“INA”).

1. It is the view of the prosecutor, the UCSIS, that MQM (both factions) met the contemporary definition of the TIER-3 position.....it is by no means the stand of either the US Government or the honourable court.

2. All this case deals is with the Immigration and Naturalization Act and has no jurisdiction beyond the contemporary courts, even then the court has not considered the position of UCSIC on MQM.

3. The Honourable judge decreed:



Which means that the sidetracking attempt by the defendants was not entertained, rather the defendant were ordered to adjudicate the application of the claimant within 120 days. The case is still open until Aqeel Ahmed is provided a resolution.

4. In this case, the UCSIS will be unable to hold their stated stance on MQM and will have to provide relief to Aqeel Ahmed simply because the Government of the United States neither considers MQM a terrorist organization not designates it as such!

SO NOW, MANY OF YOU CAN GO AND CRY US A RIVER!



It will still be MI6 agent, CIA agent, RAW agents, INDIAN supporters and sympathisers and involved in Jinnahpur and disintegration of Pakistan. I wonder when AH will be blamed for the independence of Bangladesh!

You are not smart, a very poor attempt by you to claim that this is not the US government position. This is indeed a US government position and the list of tier 3 organizations and the decision to grant them exemption is taken by the attorney general and homeland security secretary. In this case the defendants were the government agencies.

Make some other good BS excuse.LOL

As expected. Teflon argument. Mystifying the simple incident and pulling reasons and proof out of thin air to defend something that is akin to whoring MQM to western powers which is btw well within my grasp.

Unless, you are to defend that act, than it is perfectly understandable, your deep sympathies with tier 3 terrorist party has made you blind and reasoning with you is like "Bhens kai agai been bajana"

This person is just making up stuff he is so funny

 

[pak-marine]

"IF" is irrelevant when Brits confirmed it themselves and letter was on MQM site itself

i guess a decade of state operation pushed them to do this

 

[Bratva]

i guess a decade of state operation pushed them to do this

Who suffered at hands of MQM in 90-92, than in 95-96, who should they appeal to? Pak Fauj I guess, since they did not have hotline to American president (bill clinton) or Queen of england


Might I ask,,, in year 2001, What kind of suffering MQM was passing through btw ?

 

[pak-marine]

Who suffered at hands of MQM in 90-92, than in 95-96, who should they appeal to? Pak Fauj I guess, since they did not have hotline to American president (bill clinton) or Queen of england

they suffered they avenged it when had their chance 15000 killed may be a joke for you not for every one

 

[Bratva]

It was in Karachi and Sind that he came to political prominence as the province wilted under the most violent period in its history. Ethnic battles between Sindhis and Muhajirs claimed thousands of lives, and General Nawaz's troops were frequently called upon to impose curfews and break the civil strife. In a celebrated incident he was instrumental in organising a handover of 'prisoners of war' between ethnic extremist groups. His experience in Sind stood him in good stead when the government asked the army to take over law and order in Sind last year for a six-month period. Over the past few days there has been intense politicking in Islamabad between the army and the government as to whether the army would continue its role in the province.

Obituary: General Asif Nawaz

AHMED RASHID



Monday 11 January 1993

Obituary: General Asif Nawaz - People - News - The Independent

they suffered they avenged it when had their chance 15000 killed may be a joke for you not for every one

A 15,000 figure includes all those terrorists, target killers and extortionists.

So how come MQM had had an influence of such high level ?

 

[That Guy]

Thanx to spell it for me but can you give me an official link where above line is mentioned .............

Terrorism-Related Inadmissibility Grounds (TRIG) | USCIS

http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/14d0204p.pdf

If you bothered to read OP, you'd know this. OP posted the links in his original comment.

Did Canadian government declare to MQM as terrorist organization....????

The courts have, it's the same with the US with tier 3 classification.

bhai this is not MQM worker argument, but the canadian department for immigration and refugees, the same source you keep quoting for MQM to be a terrorist organisation.

please read this (do you reject this or not?)

canadian immigration and regugee board detailed analysis of the events of 1992 operation and comments on pak army, pak rangers and sindh police

Canada: Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada

he MQM alleged that it was being specifically targeted by the army operation (Asian Survey Feb. 1993, 131; AI Feb. 1996, 4; The Far East and Australasia 1996 1996, 858). Several sources indicate that the army and intelligence agencies had become increasingly alarmed at the MQM's growing strength in urban Sindh, where it had become a "virtual parallel government" and was "sounding an increasingly aggressive note" toward the government in Islamabad (UNRISD June 1993, 32; Asian Survey Nov. 1995, 1000; The Economist 1-7 July 1995, 30). On 19 June 1992, combined police and army forces raided MQM offices in Karachi with the assistance of the dissident MQM Haqiqi group (MQM(H) or "real" MQM), which was then installed and sanctioned as the only faction acceptable to the government (Asian SurveyNov. 1995, 998, 1000; UNRISD June 1993, 32; AI Feb. 1996, 4; ibid. Dec. 1993, 38). Several sources indicate that support for the MQM(H) was part of an army strategy to weaken, if not crush, the main MQM(A) faction under Altaf Hussain (The Herald May 1994a, 32; ibid. Aug. 1995a, 26;Asian Survey Nov. 1995, 1000-01; AI Feb. 1996, 4). Efforts to discredit the Altaf faction as a "criminal organization" were aided by the army's allegations of having uncovered 23 MQM torture cells where "hundreds" of political opponents and party dissidents had been tortured and killed (AI Dec. 1993, 38-40; ibid. Feb. 1996, 4; Asian Survey Nov. 1995, 1001; The Far East and Australasia 1996 1996, 858).

Over the following months hundreds of MQM(A) activists in Karachi and Hyderabad were arrested and the party leadership driven underground (AI Dec. 1993, 38; Asian Survey Nov. 1995, 1001; UNRISD June 1993, 32). Most of the party's elected representatives to the provincial and national assemblies resigned their seats, and criminal charges were brought against many of them (AI Dec. 1993, 38; ibid. Feb. 1996, 4; UNRISD June 1993, 32). While Altaf Hussain and the top MQM leadership went into self-imposed exile in London (Asian Survey Nov. 1995, 1001; The Herald May 1994b, 42b), many who remained were reportedly pressured to join the Haqiqi faction (UNRISD June 1993, 32; The Herald Aug. 1995a, 26). As the police and army carried out raids, mass round-ups and siege-and-search operations in pursuit of MQM(A)leaders and militants over the next 30 months, thousands of ordinary MQM supporters and mohajirs were subjected to arbitrary arrest and detention, extrajudicial execution, beatings, torture, extortion and other ill-treatment (The Herald Nov. 1994b, 63-64; AI Dec. 1993; ibid. 5 Apr. 1994; ibid. 13 Dec. 1994; ibid. Jan. 1995; UNRISD June 1993, 32).

in a later report The Herald noted that the new operation was "lopsided and uneven," with security forces "not targetting all criminals, but a particular group of political activists" (ibid. Aug. 1995a, 25). Despite General Babar's claim that security forces had adopted a new strategy of "target arrests" (IPS 18 Aug 1995; The Herald Aug. 1995a, 27), mass round-ups and military-style siege-and-search operations were still commonly used (see subsection 4.1) (AFP 20 Aug 1995; The Herald Aug. 1995b, 28-30; AI 17 Aug. 1995; Country Reports 1995 1996, 1338). There was growing evidence that the Rangers and police were involved in human rights abuses, including beatings, extortion, disappearances, torture and extrajudicial executions of suspected militants in faked encounter killings (see subsections 4.2 to 4.4) (IPS 18 Aug. 1995; AFP 29 Aug. 1995; AI 17 Aug. 1995; ibid. Feb 1996, 17-18; The Herald Aug. 1995b, 28-30; ibid. Nov. 1995a, 46-47; ibid. Nov. 1995c, 56-58).

According to one source, the abuses committed during cordon-and-search operations are worse in low-income areas such as Orangi, Baldia and Korangi; while the procedures of arrest and extortion are the same,

During Operation Clean-up the army's Field Investigation Team (FIT) reportedly operated several interrogation cells in Karachi in which detainees were "subjected to severe torture" (The Herald Nov. 1994b, 64; ibid. Jan. 1995b, 50), and extortion

this is irish board of refugees report on MQM

about haqiqi
[1]
“The Haqiqi, or ‘real’ MQM, split off from the main group in 1991 in opposition to
the leadership of Altaf Hussain. According to Jane's Intelligence Review, the
MQM-Haqiqi were originally covertly backed by the military in an attempt to
undermine the MQM (ibid.). Thus the MQM (A) still frequently refers to the MQM- Haqiqi group as ‘state-sponsored terrorists’

[2]

The dissidents attached Haqiqi
meaning real or authentic in Urdu as a suffix to the MQM acronym as an
assertion of the outfit's legitimacy. Many former MQM members who were
expelled from the Altaf faction due to alleged criminal links joined the Haqiqi
[3]

“In 1992, a breakway MQM faction, led by Afaq Ahmed and Aamir Khan,
launched the MQM Haqiqi (MQM-H), literally the ‘real’ MQM. Many Pakistani
observers alleged that the MQM-H was supported by the government of Pakistan
to weaken the main MQM led by Altaf Hussein, which became known as the
MQM-A (Jane's 14 Feb 2003).

in conclusion: all the expelled criminals from MQM were taken by the military and recruited for MQM haqiqi faction to counter MQM

Refworld | Pakistan: Information required on the MQM - Haqiqi Party, particularly in Karachi. Information on its activities, objectives, policies, leadership, membership, history and current situation in Pakistan

and this is US state department report, please see this

false cases on MQM and their acquittal

US state department report on Pakistan

e. Denial of Fair Public Trial

On June 11, 16-year-old Mohammad Saleem was convicted by an antiterrorist court of killing three police officers; however, Saleem was tried and acquitted of the same charges by a court in January on the grounds of insufficient evidence and lack of a motive.

On August 21, two MQM members, Mohammed Saleem and Ahmed Saeed, were convicted in an antiterrorist court of the 1997killings of two foreign employees of Union Texas Petroleum and their driver. The two were sentenced to death, as well as to and approximately $40,000 (PRs 2 million) in fines. Many questioned the fairness of the trial, since the convictions were based largely on the confessions of the accused; the confessions later were retracted on the grounds that they were obtained by the police through the use of torture.

In February 2000, two police inspectors charged with killing an MQM activist in custody in 1998 were denied bail after the Sindh High Court determined that they falsified precinct records and appeared to have committed the crime (see Section 1.a.). During the year, the two police inspectors were released on bail.


this is jinnahpur rejection by the military itself

this is verdict on hakeem saeed on which pretext entire crop of MQM workers were butchered

if MQM is a terrorist organisation pakistan army, pakistani government are also terrorist according to the above report since they patronised terrorist haqiqi

Nothing that's written actually proves MQM's innocence, again what you're doing is appealing to emotions, nothing more. These are nothing more than unproven allegations.

please forget tier this or that, the argument is not valid that MQM is a terrorist organisation until its not officially declared one, only harmonal surge for few members want MQM o be believed as a terorrist organisation

nobody rejects that MQM has done militant activities in the past but it's background needs to be fully inspected as the state itself was involved in starting the events that lead to MQM doing such activities

MQM did kick out militants from its party which were later patronised by pakistan military and were shifted to MQM haqiqi (the fact which you cannot denied)

Now, you're dismissing arguments because they don't suit your narrative. You cannot dismiss the tier system simply because you want it to disappear. The argument is completely valid, and for you to ignore this simple fact is not just ignorant, but dishonest of you. Hell, I'll come right out and say it, you're the biggest liar on the forums I've ever seen. You continue to ignore facts, you present hearsay and unproven allegations as a truth, and you bad mouth Pakistan constantly while pretending yo praise it in the same breath.


"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."

-Marcus Tullius Cicero

That is exactly what the MQM is.

Your loyalty isn't to Pakistan, it's to MQM and Altaf Hussain.