The Un-Intended Eye Opener Of 27th Feb:---

[ziaulislam]

My dear I beg to differ, the PAF was not surprised, it knew exactly what it was doing, the set of tactics deployed are but one of thousands of scenarios practiced specially during CCS. On a personal note I am also not surprised and rather enjoying hardcore PAF critics changing tune and trying to go with the tide now instead of being "expert pocket air marshals", in fact I am laughing. Having said that, the IAF still should not be underestimated, they are not incompetent and their equipment is still pretty lethal, in the words of Theodore Roosevelt, "speak softly and carry a big stick" should be the continued modus operandi of the PAF. Stay humble and stay vigilant.

Actually i was surprised how capably the bisons are on paper with good load out of 2X2

 

[Asad-Ali]

Extactly! Pakistani battle hardened war experienced brains + Chinese money and technology can do wonders in every field regarding defence.

 

[Ali Tariq]

you have just proven to be nothing more then a so called intellectual biased loser who is trying to look good by twisting the facts in your own favour.

Exactly, when it comes to Pakistan, no matter how 'senior' or 'professional an indian is, he/she becomes insane. Their media has successfully brainwashed them.

 

[Fawad alam]

Very well said @MastanKhan

 

[valkyr_96]

Some valid points raised by you. But with the same token many others have raised some valid points. As you admitted there is no official confirmations, therefore, other's narratives may be as good as yours.
Personally, without claiming any insight from PAF, I only analaysed the information in public domain. Forget about PAF, lets say we analyse the information laid down by IAF regarding 27th Feb attacks.
1- 24 Pakistani jets, including JF17, Mirages and F16s.
2- India only sent 8 interceptors. This figure is odd, why only 8!! There were 4 Su30s, 2 Mirages and 2 Bison.
3- One Bison downed, one crashed, presumably. Therefore, both Bison dusted.
4- India want's to award a Su30 pilot for successfully dogging Aim-120. It means that F16 fired Aim-120s. A figure of 4 missiles is mentioned. Were any of them successful!!
5- What did Mirage 2000 did when they were sent to intercept!! What was their fate!!
6- What role did Pak's Mirages and JF17 played on 27th!! Indians admitted that surroundings of their installations were hit. We know the bombing run were conducted by Mirages, and perhaps by JF 17 too.
JF 17 were on escort duties for Mirages. The logical conclusion is that the interceptors would have engaged them first. What happened with their engagements with JF 17!! Indians are not telling us a lot more.

Indians have adopted this policy since 27th that they want to highlight the role played by F16. To pressurise Pakistani through USA. These tactics have failed, but nonetheless it was tried by the Indians.
They would not utter the name of JF17 despite it was part of the leading pack with Mirages. Why!!

I can tell you why. They don't want to admit that Pakistani made fighters gave hard time to their best. Whenever they speak about JF17 they say it is a Chinese fighter, knowing fully well it is a joint fighter. They are purposefully misleading their audiences that Pakistan is inferior to them, despite getting a bloody nose.

These gaps in Indian narratives shows that a lot more happened, which Indians are not talking about. We coupled that with the remarks of Modi and sacking of Western Command Chief. Something extraordinary happened, lets there be no mistakes about it.



Poster litman has answered your BS in his post earlier. Shooting down of F16 which you and Indian media is boosting on the basis of Engine casting of Mig 21 had been exposed by an innocent looking expert on Indian channel. Probably nobody briefed him on the plan.

I have already analysed the events in response to maverick post above, from the information released by the Indian media etc. You cannot claim of potential bias from Pakistani sources.
A lot more serious answers have to be provided by the Indians to their own public. Hiding behind rhetoric and lies is not going to work my friend.

He conveniently forgot

https://twitter.com/x/status/1100656090805686272

 

[MastanKhan]

It is ironic that my brothers are celebrating, and even fantasizing and creating myths, about something which has NOT been disclosed by either side. All that we know factually is that a Mig-21 was destroyed but we have absolutely no evidence that it was shot down by a JF-17 or an F-16 or even a SAM etc.

What ISPR has claimed is that 2 IAF Jets were shot down but even the ISPR did not disclose which assets were used to shoot down the 2 IAF Jets. Furthermore, there is no evidence as of yet that the 2nd Jet was also shot down, it could have been hit but there is no evidence so far that the 2nd Jet too was downed. On the other hand IAF has claimed shooting down an F-16 but again no evidence at all that any F-16 was shot down.

Now, coming to the suspicious parts, ISPR claimed that they had 2 IAF pilots and then after a few hours the statement was changed to just 1 pilot; I cannot digest that ISPR is that unprofessional and so it is a mystery what happened to the story of the 2nd pilot which could be either of the following 3:

1. ISPR jumped the gun and unprofessionally claimed capture of 2 IAF pilots where there was only 1.
2. ISPR was correct, 2 pilots were apprehended but only 1 was IAF, the other was of PAF which indicates that some PAF Jet was downed and so ISPR had to revise the story.
3. ISPR was correct, 2 pilots were captured but since IAF only mentioned 1 pilot, we decided to keep the other pilot for interrogation and intel gathering or some other ****.

Now, we move on to the piece of AMRAAM that was displayed by India and which can be any one of the following:

1. The part belonged to a Taiwanese AIM-120C-5 which was used in a training exercise with IAF (perhaps a live missile was used to shoot down a target drone?) and fragments of which were available with IAF.
2. The part belongs to a PAF AIM-120C-5 which was used in a training exercise (same as above) or to shoot down some IAF asset sometime (drone/helo/Jet etc.) fragments of which fell on the other side of LoC and were available with India.
3. The serial number was painted on a bent piece of metal which does not really belong to any AIM-120C-5 and was a bluff by India.......a very very big and risky bluff.

But if you all recall, ISPR clearly stated that no F-16's were used in any activity that day which brings us back to square 1........unless:

1. PAF has hacked into the AIM-120C-5 and have mated it to a JF-17 or a ground based SAM system and that it was either fired by a JF-17 or ground based SAM asset.
2. ISPR was lying and F-16's were used in activities that day.
3. Neither any F-16 nor any AIM-120C-5 was used that day.

When there are so many if, buts and maybe's, how some of my fellow countrymen are stringing up fantasies is just beyond me.

Hi,

this is war---. Real truth will come out years later---.

So---for now we will cherish our 'claimed' victory---.

Or they should gift us 100 F-31s... Its now proven Chinese goodies are best then the Israelis, Amricans, & french... And its all due to PAF...

Hi,

If it works when it is needed the most---and it gives results---that is the best weapon---.

 

[Tps43]

Anyone knows where was russian ambasdor to pak in evening of 27th?
and what he said and requested on that day to someone special

 

[Riz]

Hi,

this is war---. Real truth will come out years later---.

So---for now we will cherish our 'claimed' victory---.



Hi,

If it works when it is needed the most---and it gives results---that is the best weapon---.

Dont waste your time explaining there useless questions .. Just save this pic and keep pasting again & again..

 

[CaptainNemo]

Anyone knows where was russian ambasdor to pak in evening of 27th?
and what he said and requested on that day to someone special

No..but please do tell [emoji4]

 

[Taha Samad]

It is ironic that my brothers are celebrating, and even fantasizing and creating myths, about something which has NOT been disclosed by either side. All that we know factually is that a Mig-21 was destroyed but we have absolutely no evidence that it was shot down by a JF-17 or an F-16 or even a SAM etc.

What ISPR has claimed is that 2 IAF Jets were shot down but even the ISPR did not disclose which assets were used to shoot down the 2 IAF Jets. Furthermore, there is no evidence as of yet that the 2nd Jet was also shot down, it could have been hit but there is no evidence so far that the 2nd Jet too was downed. On the other hand IAF has claimed shooting down an F-16 but again no evidence at all that any F-16 was shot down.

Now, coming to the suspicious parts, ISPR claimed that they had 2 IAF pilots and then after a few hours the statement was changed to just 1 pilot; I cannot digest that ISPR is that unprofessional and so it is a mystery what happened to the story of the 2nd pilot which could be either of the following 3:

1. ISPR jumped the gun and unprofessionally claimed capture of 2 IAF pilots where there was only 1.
2. ISPR was correct, 2 pilots were apprehended but only 1 was IAF, the other was of PAF which indicates that some PAF Jet was downed and so ISPR had to revise the story.
3. ISPR was correct, 2 pilots were captured but since IAF only mentioned 1 pilot, we decided to keep the other pilot for interrogation and intel gathering or some other ****.

Now, we move on to the piece of AMRAAM that was displayed by India and which can be any one of the following:

1. The part belonged to a Taiwanese AIM-120C-5 which was used in a training exercise with IAF (perhaps a live missile was used to shoot down a target drone?) and fragments of which were available with IAF.
2. The part belongs to a PAF AIM-120C-5 which was used in a training exercise (same as above) or to shoot down some IAF asset sometime (drone/helo/Jet etc.) fragments of which fell on the other side of LoC and were available with India.
3. The serial number was painted on a bent piece of metal which does not really belong to any AIM-120C-5 and was a bluff by India.......a very very big and risky bluff.

But if you all recall, ISPR clearly stated that no F-16's were used in any activity that day which brings us back to square 1........unless:

1. PAF has hacked into the AIM-120C-5 and have mated it to a JF-17 or a ground based SAM system and that it was either fired by a JF-17 or ground based SAM asset.
2. ISPR was lying and F-16's were used in activities that day.
3. Neither any F-16 nor any AIM-120C-5 was used that day.

When there are so many if, buts and maybe's, how some of my fellow countrymen are stringing up fantasies is just beyond me.

Let's analyze what other evidence is there in public domain:

1) There is evidence of at least another jet going down: Multiple Locals(you can find videos on youtube) told/were talking about 3 parachutes (so that mean 3 pilots). So at least another fighter went down(it could be from either side).

2) IAF official stance is that Abhinandan shot F-16 with a R-73(WVR Missile) before he got shot down.

3) PAF recently released pictures of all 4 missiles(2xR73 + 2xR77) carried by Mig-21. 2 from right wing are more or less undamaged, while 2 from left wing have fire damage but seekers are intact. From images of wreckage we know left wing had more fire damage. The seekers from left wing can also be seen in images of wreckage. Plus we have already seen pictures of Mig-21 External Fuel Tank. So this accounts for all the hard points. So if Abhinandan did not fire any missiles India's claim falls flat.

So based on above we can conclude: Second jet was IAF.

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

muy sources say the same. F-16 was used but jf-17 is also credited with a kill.

 

[1Paki$tani]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108736366278569985

Comments? MKI? Burning Mig?

 

[pkd]

Hi,

The Paf may not have intended for it to have happened like it did---but the results of that day's---day light strike and skirmish over kashmir has many a powers shook up---concerned---and looking for answers---answers that may not be easy to find and consequences no easy to confront---.

The first major combat of two equally well equipped air forces of the world has some shocking results for the major powers to analyze and assess---.

The myth of the israeli / french / russian technology on one side---and on the other side---chinese technology with ruthless and brutally efficient Paf brains behind that technology in operation.

The Paf---after living all thru those years on sanctions---and as Air Marshall Latif quoted Gen Mushhy " we went with pockets full of money and no one would sell us the fighter aircraft---"---the Paf had a grudge against the claimed powers to be---they were mad as hell---mad as a hornets nest disturbed in the dark of the night---continuously being blamed for every wrong that was done in india by the indians themselves on their own---.

The indians came by choice---at a time and place of their chosing---openly threatening the pak military---and yret they had to trun tail.

In return---Pakistan's response of retaliation at a time and place of their own chosing was not taken seriously---and there were many who had reservations about it---.

But when pakistan struck back---the strike was made in the light of the day---for the world and the public to see---it was masterful---it was tectful---it was ruthless and it was brutal---.

Nobody in the world---no military power in the world expected that kind of retaliation by the pak military---.

And as they say---" success has many fathers---and defeat is an orphan---"---suddenly the indian air force felt like it had been orphaned by its very own---. Indian Prime minister after reviewing the losses---had the realization dawn on him that his aircraft were not capable of defending the motherland untill and unless he did not have the most modern Rafales---.


that was just one small part of the picture---. The bigger and the larger part of the picture was the Pakistan / China fighter / China EW package and china weapons broke the spell of the modern israeli / russian / french EW package---made it go to sleep and spun their own magic in chinese and pakistani and made the enemy fall from the skies---.

This was unexpected---was not a part of the picture---was not supposed to happen---was not allowed to happen---but it did---.

The unexpected successful exposure of the unknown newer weaponry into the air combat field by the Paf has had an eye popping effect in many a leading nations of the world---. The weapons system that was known to be below par and docile turned out to be a monster---.

i would not be surprised if mother China was equally surprised by the effectiveness of its weapons---.

It is so resounding that they have already gone back to their masters for help

Israel, US intercept long-range missiles during joint drill

 

[Tps43]

muy sources say the same. F-16 was used but jf-17 is also credited with a kill.

Ur sources are right 2:1 ratio bw aim120: sd

 

[Secret Service]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108736366278569985

Comments? MKI? Burning Mig?

my God, this is 100% a flanker.